[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

80kg is in the right ballpark for very light spec cars of each. In the real world, I believe the weight difference will be greater due to available options. For example, the weight difference between the CCB and iron brake setup is much more significant on the G8X (~25kg) than on the F8X (~8kg). Another example is the standard seats with ventilation that will further increase the weight difference. IMO, the real world difference will be more in the 80-135kg range for RWD cars.

Correct, it's not possible to make a fair comparison for very light spec cars since the G8x comes with power and heated seats, EDC and bigger brakes and wheels as standard.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

This is incorrect. Today EU weight corresponds to the weight of the base car (i.e without any option), with 90% of the fuel tank and with a 75 kg driver. The DIN weight reported by BMW is then the EU weight minus the 75 kg for the driver. In the past it was possible to report the lightest weight possible you could get throught the options (like CCB, bucket seats, radio/airco delete,....).

Both standards have been jointly revised since 2014 and the relationship between DIN and EU weights has not changed, where EU=DIN+75kg.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Here is the comparison from BMWBLOG between F8x vs G8x

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

Gearbox F80 G80 Difference
M3 Sedan Manual 1595 kg 1780 kg 185 kg
M3 Sedan Auto 1635 kg
M3 Competition Manual 1610 kg
M3 Competition Auto 1635 kg 1805 kg 170 kg
M4 Coupe Manual 1572 kg
M4 Coupe Auto 1572 kg 1775 kg 203 kg
M4 Competition Manual 1612 kg
M4 Competition Auto 1590 kg
1615 kg 1800 kg 185 kg

My word 185 and 200kg differences if verified correct IS quite some increase.

Might have to wait for a Harry's Garage weigh in come a few months time.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Do you read what you write or do you just copy-paste? When and where was the M4 F82 1572kgs manual/1590kgs auto? Not on this planet, it was barely under 1600 kg in its lightest possible configuration (manual, carbon ceramic brakes, 19" rims, no leather interior, no heated seats, no power seats, no EDC), 99% of M4 F82s you see on the road are around 1620/1640 kg and with DCT you're always over 1600.
As already shown the weight increase with the new G8x is around 70/80 kg, not 185.
We have 1640 kgs for a F82 DCT and 1674kgs for a G82 manual (tested) with carbon seats and (maybe) CCB, to be fair add 25 kgs for the gearbox and around 20 kgs for the seats and the brakes and you are at 1720 kgs, 80 kgs more.

Well BMW Blog are saying the heavier F80 M3 (vs the M4)tipped the scales at 1595 :

[khanyam4]

Didn't read and don't care about the weight. The car is going to be a daily driver with no track time.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Correct, it's not possible to make a fair comparison for very light spec cars since the G8x comes with power and heated seats, EDC and bigger brakes and wheels as standard.

Didn't the F80 come with power and heated seats, and EDC?

The G8X is heavier and bigger, and if this requires bigger brakes and wheels, then it is right and fair to compare it with the F8X. Unless you are saying eg the bigger brakes result in the G8X stopping faster than the F8X. By your logic, any later generation cannot be compared with the earlier generation because the former is bigger. Nope, the world will compare the F8X and the G8X.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by bm323

Didn't the F80 come with power and heated seats, and EDC?

The G8X is heavier and bigger, and if this requires bigger brakes and wheels, then it is right and fair to compare it with the F8X. Unless you are saying eg the bigger brakes result in the G8X stopping faster than the F8X. By your logic, any later generation cannot be compared with the earlier generation because the former is bigger. Nope, the world will compare the F8X and the G8X.

No, not in all markets, as has already been said a trillion times.
In Europe the M4 F82 came with no power and heated seats, no EDC, no leather interiors etc, while in the G82 all this is standard and increases DIN weight. For this reason you can't make a fair comparison.
And since we discuss about DIN weight (the only data we have at the moment), we only can consider EU cars.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.

Originally Posted by dgm3

This is incorrect. Today EU weight corresponds to the weight of the base car (i.e without any option), with 90% of the fuel tank and with a 75 kg driver. The DIN weight reported by BMW is then the EU weight minus the 75 kg for the driver. In the past it was possible to report the lightest weight possible you could get throught the options (like CCB, bucket seats, radio/airco delete,....).

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Both standards have been jointly revised since 2014 and the relationship between DIN and EU weights has not changed, where EU=DIN+75kg.

dgm3 posted above and CanAutM3 corrected him on it; which I read as since 2014, DIN is the weight of the car with the most common/popular options, it is not the weight of the base car without options. Since DIN is the weight of the car with the most common/popular options, was the F80 sold commonly with power and heated seats, EDC and leather interiors? The base may have been sold without these but how was the car commonly optioned? Wasn't the F8X sold after 2014 in Europe, and if so what was its DIN?

I just found the following interesting link from Google https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=919364

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Spot on !
As far as performance cars go, building bigger & heavier cars & just throwing more & more power at them is ridiculous. Yes I do understand the requirements re crash structure legislation etc but some manufacturers are still building relatively lightweight performance cars.
Ok the average Joe who only uses his performance car for spotlight drags & commuting may be happy with that but many that use these cars as intended won't.
My F87 is a barge already (I'm slowly improving it a little) & unfortunately the G87 will be worse. As far as any other cars currently available with a BMW M badge it's worse. This also applies to the current AMG & Audi RS offerings.
I also have an RS275R that is 5 years old now & was 1230kg when new & that feels light years ahead of my F87 on track or when pushing on off track, 300kg makes a massive difference to ALL areas of performance.
There is a reason cars like the Exige & Alpine are so good & able to compete well above their league & it's the lack of mass.
I will likely keep my F87 until I can afford to get into the 'right' Porsche GT car. Not interested in badge loyalty, that's a game for suckers (take a look at my history on website in signature).
Im also keen for something like an E30 or similar for use in historic racing as I'm concerned this may be the only ICE vehicle Motorsport class accessible in the bleak 'anti-car' future of EV taxis.

Good comments. Thanks
PhJ

[Puuhapete]

I would not worry too much about the weight at this point. I have now driven several times a Porsche Taycan and the model 4S handles like a 911. Yes, like a 911. It has only slightly more body roll and the steering is even better. And with the bigger battery the 4S weights over 2200 kg. Of course it helps that the battery is stored very low in the car but I would not be surprised if the G80/82 would be more agile as the F80/82 series. The weight might be no problem in the end but for me the car has other issues.
What comes to the thread starter, great data collection
I have to point out one thing though, The Alfas time at the Ring was done with 100kg lighter car, more powerful engine and semislicks+ tyres. So not comparable at all to M3/M4.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by bm323

dgm3 posted above and CanAutM3 corrected him on it; which I read as since 2014, DIN is the weight of the car with the most common/popular options, it is not the weight of the base car without options. Since DIN is the weight of the car with the most common/popular options, was the F80 sold commonly with power and heated seats, EDC and leather interiors? The base may have been sold without these but how was the car commonly optioned? Wasn't the F8X sold after 2014 in Europe, and if so what was its DIN?

I just found the following interesting link from Google https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=919364

CanAutM3 is wrong ... EU is the weight of the base car without any option (this is even written in small characters just below the technical data on the G80 M3 brochure). Then DIN is just EU -75 kg (weight of the driver), ie still the car without any option.
Do not confuse with the US curb weight which I understand includes weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

This is incorrect. Today EU weight corresponds to the weight of the base car (i.e without any option), with 90% of the fuel tank and with a 75 kg driver. The DIN weight reported by BMW is then the EU weight minus the 75 kg for the driver. In the past it was possible to report the lightest weight possible you could get throught the options (like CCB, bucket seats, radio/airco delete,....).

And to my point about was possible in the past please have a look at this video (weight discussion starting at 13:30)

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

Dave07997S,

it is nice that you are reporting this bmwblog article because it perfectly illustrates the two major errors to avoid and that I mentioned in the original post of this thread:
1) be careful with errors. The author spoke about the weight of 1,725 kilos for the AWD ( implied BMW G82 M4 Competition !). It is obvious that it cannot be AWD G82 but should be RWD G82, as mentioned already by other readers as AWD G82 does not exist yet.

2) never blindly trust weight data when it is not mentioned what weight type it is. Here the author talks about 1,725 kilos. Dave07997S thought that it was EU weight, but in fact it is DIN weight, which is 75 kg lighter (no driver) and which corresponds to 1800 (EU) kg for the M4 G82 Competition (with Automatic Transmission).
PhJ

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

CanAutM3 is wrong ... EU is the weight of the base car without any option (this is even written in small characters just below the technical data on the G80 M3 brochure). Then DIN is just EU -75 kg (weight of the driver), ie still the car without any option.
Do not confuse with the US curb weight which I understand includes weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold.

I am not wrong to the fact that the DIN/EU weight standards have been changed since 2014 and that DIN/EU weight from 2014 and 2020 cannot be directly compared. If you refute this, you are simply in denial.

Back in 2014 when the F8X was introduced, the standard allowed manufacturers to certify the lowest possible weight, which translated to a weight below what cars on the road would normally weigh. I challenge you to find a F82 that weighs 1,497kg/3,300lb with 90% fuel. The EU/DIN standards were revised to prevent such anomalies. If you look at more recent weight data from EU publications, you'll often see cars that weigh less than the DIN spec because of that. It has to do with how cars have to be configured for the DIN weight spec and what was/is considered to be an "option".

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

And to my point about was possible in the past please have a look at this video (weight discussion starting at 13:30)

for sharing this, you are actually proving my point. Andreas Preuninger clearly states what I've been trying to express here: “comparing apples with apple pie”

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

for sharing this, you are actually proving my point. Andreas Preuningerclearly states what I've been trying to express here: “comparing apples with apple pie”

CanAutM3,
I looked at the video (on the yellow Porsche GT4) shared by dgm3 and you are right : it looks like the EU standard has changed in between 2014 and 2019, according to Andreas Preuninger from Porsche, interviewed by Henry catchpole (from EVO magazine) in this video. I was not aware of this. Thanks for the info .
In 2014, a car manufacturer could homologate the weight of a car by including all the options which would decrease its weight, which is no more the case today as the EU weight has to be measured nowadays on a standard car with no option ticked.
This means that for a straight apples-to-apples comparison between 2014 and 2021 car weights, we should look for any car at all the options available in 2014 that would decrease the weight of that car and sum them up to see how many kilos should be added the 'claimed' weight at that time. Concerning the 2014 F8x models, only the carbon ceramic brakes (weight benefit of 13 kg on G8x) comes to my mind. Anybody has other options in mind (together with the associated weight saving) ? Maybe a few extra kgs for optional light weight rims ? BMW has never had strange light weight options like 'no air conditioning' option at Porsche !
Carbon ceramics brakes (CCB) would add only about 13 kg, so that the 'adjusted' EU weight for F82 M4 MT would increase from 1572 (old EU) kg to 1585 (new EU) kg . Not a big deal as the weight increase from M82 M4 MT with CCB to G82 M4 MT would still be considerable : 190 kg (iso 203 kg), very far away from the +-80 kg estimated by a few readers of this thread. Am I missing something ?

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

this is great if true, thanks for the link.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not wrong to the fact that the DIN/EU weight standards have been changed since 2014 and that DIN/EU weight from 2014 and 2020 cannot be directly compared. If you refute this, you are simply in denial.

Back in 2014 when the F8X was introduced, the standard allowed manufacturers to certify the lowest possible weight, which translated to a weight below what cars on the road would normally weigh. I challenge you to find a F82 that weighs 1,497kg/3,300lb with 90% fuel. The EU/DIN standards were revised to prevent such anomalies. If you look at more recent weight data from EU publications, you'll often see cars that weigh less than the DIN spec because of that. It has to do with how cars have to be configured for the DIN weight spec and what was/is considered to be an "option".

Here is what you posted (#65)
I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.
Your last sentence is definetly wrong and that's what I initially pointed out. I obviously agree that the standards had evolved otherwise I wouldn't have posted the GT4 video... but they absolutely did not evolve in the way you described it and that's the second thing I pointed out.

Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here is what you posted (#65)
I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.
Your last sentence is definetly wrong and that's what I initially pointed out. I obviously agree that the standards had evolved otherwise I wouldn't have posted the GT4 video... but they absolutely did not evolve in the way you described it and that's the second thing I pointed out.

Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum

You seem to be too hung up on the specific choice of words over the overall message or point that is being conveyed... The fact that DIN/EU weights from 2014 and 2020 cannot be directly compared is the point I have been insisting on since the start of this thread.

When I was referring to "factory options" I meant those that the distributors select for their local markets, not the ones selected by the individual private buyers. What the factory considers as "optional" differs to what is being offered as standard/optional in the different markets and the list of what can be "selected" varies significantly from one market to another. Perhaps using the word "configuration" instead of "option" might have made this specific post clearer.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You seem to be too hung up on the specific choice of words over the overall message or point that is being conveyed... The fact that DIN/EU weights from 2014 and 2020 cannot be directly compared is the point I have been insisting on since the start of this thread.

When I was referring to "factory options" I meant those that the distributors select for their local markets, not the ones selected by the individual private buyers. What the factory considers as "optional" differs to what is being offered as standard/optional in the different markets and the list of what can be "selected" varies significantly from one market to another. Perhaps using the word "configuration" instead of "option" might have made this specific post clearer.

I don't think it is clear still. Are you saying that "Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any configuration or options installed" and the DIN weight now is the base car with standard options/what is being offered as standard (ie standard options)? You mentioned that different markets have different standard options. If so, does it mean that the DIN weight for 1 country may differ from the DIN weight for another country?

When was the revision made to the DIN standard? The F8X was sold until about 2018. If the DIN was revised during the period the F8X was sold, do you have the DIN weight (after revision) for the F80 or F82?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by dgm3

This is incorrect. Today EU weight corresponds to the weight of the base car (i.e without any option), with 90% of the fuel tank and with a 75 kg driver. The DIN weight reported by BMW is then the EU weight minus the 75 kg for the driver. In the past it was possible to report the lightest weight possible you could get throught the options (like CCB, bucket seats, radio/airco delete,....).

I assume the typo refers to "without"?

Originally Posted by dgm3

CanAutM3 is wrong ... EU is the weight of the base car without any option (this is even written in small characters just below the technical data on the G80 M3 brochure). Then DIN is just EU -75 kg (weight of the driver), ie still the car without any option.
Do not confuse with the US curb weight which I understand includes weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold.

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here is what you posted (#65)
I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.
Your last sentence is definetly wrong and that's what I initially pointed out. I obviously agree that the standards had evolved otherwise I wouldn't have posted the GT4 video... but they absolutely did not evolve in the way you described it and that's the second thing I pointed out.

Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum

I'm trying to understand. Are you saying that DIN today is the weight of the base car without any options? If so, how did the DIN standard change and when was it changed?

[VIERsr]

This is the last claimed weight for the F82 (Nov 2019). Pretty far from 1497kg and very close to the all M4s tested (barely under 1600kg with no options, between 1620 and 1640 if well equipped).
The text in red means "Data refers to a vehicle with basic configuration in Germany", and in Germany the M4 F82 had standard 18" rims, no EDC, no power seats, no heated seats, no leather interiors.
For reference, for the G82 they claim 1700kg (1725 auto) DIN, but with 18/19 rims, EDC, leather, heated and power seats and so on, that means +130kg but with more equipment, it's very hard to make a fair comparison then. But still very far from +185kg.



(Source: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/italy...19?language=it)