[Transfer]

Originally Posted by bm323

Good video, but misses the point when M has been elusive.

I had my F10 M5 for almost 8 years, and I know how weight impacts handling. You may not realise it with an hour's drive, or one may not mind how it impacts. I do.

Edit: some don't even know or realise weight impacts handling.

Oh of course it does but what are you gonna do about it? Buy a Porsche or an older lighter, less advanced car are about the only real options. Even the M2 is a fat pig for what it is. Still fun to drive.

Dissecting the weight on an M3 no one has driven is like trying to predict the ride quality. We all know it's going to be a stiff ride, but how stiff? Gotta drive it. At least in that regard you can mod for ride quality and handling.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Oh of course it does but what are you gonna do about it? Buy a Porsche or an older lighter, less advanced car are about the only real options. Even the M2 is a fat pig for what it is. Still fun to drive. ...

We're on different planets. I'll gladly take the older, lighter less advanced car with better steering feel and handling (which was not pointed out above; therefore non issues to you). Your issue of "less advanced" is an absolute non issue to me. The issue is getting one which is in good shape.

Edit: I see you drive a M340i and a X3M comp; they are non starters for me.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by bm323

We're on different planets. I'll gladly take the older, lighter less advanced car with better steering feel and handling (which was not pointed out above; therefore non issues to you). Your issue of "less advanced" is an absolute non issue to me. The issue is getting one which is in good shape.

Edit: I see you drive a M340i and a X3M comp; they are non starters for me.

So are you considering a G8X? Sounds like you shouldn't be..?

[scoale]

"Is the weight an issue"....

The answer to that question is going to depend on what an individual driver wants from the car and to what extent BMW has offset the weight with increased power, chassis stiffness, suspension tuning, and braking. My M2 comp, for example, is about the same weight as my F80, but it doesn't feel like it. Considered in isolation, more weight is not a good thing, but for some drivers it really won't matter. You can rest assured that the G80 will post better acceleration and track times than the F80 and, for many, that is all that will matter.

For this driver, the increased size is at least as much of an issue as the weight; the F80 already feels big. And I'm not looking for more power. So the G87 is the next BMW I am most interested in as a potential replacement for my F80.

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by scoale

"Is the weight an issue"....

The answer to that question is going to depend on what an individual driver wants from the car and to what extent BMW has offset the weight with increased power, chassis stiffness, suspension tuning, and braking. My M2 comp, for example, is about the same weight as my F80, but it doesn't feel like it. Considered in isolation, more weight is not a good thing, but for some drivers it really won't matter. You can rest assured that the G80 will post better acceleration and track times than the F80 and, for many, that is all that will matter.

For this driver, the increased size is at least as much of an issue as the weight; the F80 already feels big. And I'm not looking for more power. So the G87 is the next BMW I am most interested in as a potential replacement for my F80.

Spot on !
As far as performance cars go, building bigger & heavier cars & just throwing more & more power at them is ridiculous. Yes I do understand the requirements re crash structure legislation etc but some manufacturers are still building relatively lightweight performance cars.
Ok the average Joe who only uses his performance car for spotlight drags & commuting may be happy with that but many that use these cars as intended won't.
My F87 is a barge already (I'm slowly improving it a little) & unfortunately the G87 will be worse. As far as any other cars currently available with a BMW M badge it's worse. This also applies to the current AMG & Audi RS offerings.
I also have an RS275R that is 5 years old now & was 1230kg when new & that feels light years ahead of my F87 on track or when pushing on off track, 300kg makes a massive difference to ALL areas of performance.
There is a reason cars like the Exige & Alpine are so good & able to compete well above their league & it's the lack of mass.
I will likely keep my F87 until I can afford to get into the 'right' Porsche GT car. Not interested in badge loyalty, that's a game for suckers (take a look at my history on website in signature).
Im also keen for something like an E30 or similar for use in historic racing as I'm concerned this may be the only ICE vehicle Motorsport class accessible in the bleak 'anti-car' future of EV taxis.

[Dave07997S]

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

Doesn't sound right to me. Maybe that's the 6sp vs. auto (base vs. competition)? There's no way an Auto & AWD only add 25kg over the 6sp model unless you're shedding weight elsewhere!

"In the case of the M3 and M3 Competition, there’s just 25 kilos separating them. That’s barely noticeable in a modern-day car, to be fair, and it’s quite amazing by how little impact all those added layers of complexity had. The same story applies to the M4 and M4 Competition as well, with the manual, RWD model tipping the scale at 1,700 kilos and the AWD automatic doing it at 1,725 kilos. Another interesting tidbit we should point out is that the M3 is just 5 kilos heavier than its Coupe brother."

[solstice]

Originally Posted by M-SP0RT

Doesn't sound right to me. Maybe that's the 6sp vs. auto (base vs. competition)? There's no way an Auto & AWD only add 25kg over the 6sp model unless you're shedding weight elsewhere!

"In the case of the M3 and M3 Competition, there’s just 25 kilos separating them. That’s barely noticeable in a modern-day car, to be fair, and it’s quite amazing by how little impact all those added layers of complexity had. The same story applies to the M4 and M4 Competition as well, with the manual, RWD model tipping the scale at 1,700 kilos and the AWD automatic doing it at 1,725 kilos. Another interesting tidbit we should point out is that the M3 is just 5 kilos heavier than its Coupe brother."

I see the only comment is from someone who spotted the same error. Nothing is released about the AWD yet so it’s definitely a fault.

The comment:
“ These weight figures are for RWD competition models. All the current competition models in production are RWD and the AWD variant isn't getting produced until summer. The 25kg difference is between the automatic and manual only, the AWD will add much more”

A typo of an A instead of R.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Transfer

So are you considering a G8X? Sounds like you shouldn't be..?

I am still considering; one primary consideration being weight which I've groaned over. I want a car (4 doors and 5 seater) closer to an M3 for use at times, not one closer to an M5.

Originally Posted by bm323

As said before, I initially had decided to get the G80 as I was expecting it to have improved on the F80; but I'm totally undecided now until I have driven it with all reviews and information out; and even then the LCI, if I do decide to get it.

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

It is clear the 1725 kg refers to the RWD auto. 1725 kg (if true) may be acceptable; don't know yet. It would be ideal if the G80 suits me.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by bm323

I am still considering; one primary consideration being weight which I've groaned over. I want a car (4 doors and 5 seater) closer to an M3 for use at times, not one closer to an M5.





It is clear the 1725 kg refers to the RWD auto. 1725 kg (if true) may be acceptable; don't know yet. It would be ideal if the G80 suits me.

That's not what the article says though..

"The same story applies to the M4 and M4 Competition as well, with the manual, RWD model tipping the scale at 1,700 kilos and the AWD automatic doing it at 1,725 kilos"

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

That's not what the article says though..

"The same story applies to the M4 and M4 Competition as well, with the manual, RWD model tipping the scale at 1,700 kilos and the AWD automatic doing it at 1,725 kilos"

It's clearly an error, 25 kilos only must be for the ZF auto. No way it can be for the AWD.

[bm323]

Some posters have commented that forum members shouldn't complain since there is no "package" available in the market as substitute for the G8X, therefore stop ranting. This is wrong cos it is not only not wrong, but it is justified to complain about its weight; with the intention of getting M to seriously consider this. Why should enthusiasts just accept (vs making themselves heard) M going about saving costs but increasing prices? Even BMWBlog repeatedly rants, and most recently "The new M4 is a porky Bimmer, tipping the scales at over 4,000 lbs (1,800 kg) in its heaviest configuration. The 911 GT3’s heaviest setup? 3,163 lbs (1,435 kg)."

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/16/2...1-gt3-is-here/

[zamboni]

Here is the comparison from BMWBLOG between F8x vs G8x

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

Gearbox F80 G80 Difference
M3 Sedan Manual 1595 kg 1780 kg 185 kg
M3 Sedan Auto 1635 kg
M3 Competition Manual 1610 kg
M3 Competition Auto 1635 kg 1805 kg 170 kg
M4 Coupe Manual 1572 kg
M4 Coupe Auto 1572 kg 1775 kg 203 kg
M4 Competition Manual 1612 kg
M4 Competition Auto 1590 kg
1615 kg 1800 kg 185 kg

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Here is the comparison from BMWBLOG between F8x vs G8x

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

Gearbox F80 G80 Difference
M3 Sedan Manual 1595 kg 1780 kg 185 kg
M3 Sedan Auto 1635 kg
M3 Competition Manual 1610 kg
M3 Competition Auto 1635 kg 1805 kg 170 kg
M4 Coupe Manual 1572 kg
M4 Coupe Auto 1572 kg 1775 kg 203 kg
M4 Competition Manual 1612 kg
M4 Competition Auto 1590 kg
1615 kg 1800 kg 185 kg

Wow, thanks for putting together some factual figures rather than the guesstimates on here, some dramatic increases there, this doesn't bode well for any driving enthusiasts out there looking to update from an F80/82. Good news is there's no doubt the G80/82 will be a powerhouse, so you'll still be a traffic light hero if that floats your boat.

[VIERsr]

Do you read what you write or do you just copy-paste? When and where was the M4 F82 1572kgs manual/1590kgs auto? Not on this planet, it was barely under 1600 kg in its lightest possible configuration (manual, carbon ceramic brakes, 19" rims, no leather interior, no heated seats, no power seats, no EDC), 99% of M4 F82s you see on the road are around 1620/1640 kg and with DCT you're always over 1600.
As already shown the weight increase with the new G8x is around 70/80 kg, not 185.
We have 1640 kgs for a F82 DCT and 1674kgs for a G82 manual (tested) with carbon seats and (maybe) CCB, to be fair add 25 kgs for the gearbox and around 20 kgs for the seats and the brakes and you are at 1720 kgs, 80 kgs more.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

BMW Blog is now reporting that the G82 cars now come in at 1700Kg (3,740lbs)for the manual and 1725 (3,795lbs) for the AWD auto.

Here is the blog..

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/18/b...l-specs-m3-m4/

Clearly a mistake... there is no figure yet for the AWD
From BMW catalog :
* M4 6 speed : 1700 kg DIN - 1775 kg EU
* M4 competition auto (RWD) : 1725 kg DIN - 1800 kg EU

Add 5 kg for the M3

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You obviously put a fair bit of thought is this write up. I share your interest in understanding the weight evolution. There are however a few flaws in the assumptions used:

The DIN/EU standards have evolved in time, so it is not really possible to compare numbers from 2014, 2016 and 2020 between them. While I am not happy with the weight increase of the G8X, I don't believe it will be anywhere near 185kg for equivalently specced cars.

The DIN/EU weight penaltly of the DCT over the 6MT on the F8X was later revised to 25kg, which is much more consistent to what it should be.

Hi CAnAutM3,
interesting comment. I am eager to know the DIN/EU standards evolutions in time which make not possible to compare weight figures from 2014 till 2020. Can you please list those changes over time and their impact on the weight figures ? Can you also provide websites references on this ? Thanks in advance.
PhJ

[PhJ]

Originally Posted by scoale

"Is the weight an issue"....

The answer to that question is going to depend on what an individual driver wants from the car and to what extent BMW has offset the weight with increased power, chassis stiffness, suspension tuning, and braking. My M2 comp, for example, is about the same weight as my F80, but it doesn't feel like it. Considered in isolation, more weight is not a good thing, but for some drivers it really won't matter. You can rest assured that the G80 will post better acceleration and track times than the F80 and, for many, that is all that will matter.

For this driver, the increased size is at least as much of an issue as the weight; the F80 already feels big. And I'm not looking for more power. So the G87 is the next BMW I am most interested in as a potential replacement for my F80.

Scoale,
I agree that for several drivers, the increased size is as much an issue as the weight. The G87 will be shorter than the G8x, no doubt about that but I am looking for a four door sport sedan (like the F80) and to my knowledge, G87 will be sold only as a coupe, isn't it ? So not a solution for me.
PhJ

[parathon]

Firstly, what a fantastically well researched and presented (the original) article. Thanks.
I think everybody's response to this will be different depending on their circumstances and their expectations from the car.
MY G82 should arrive at the dealers in about 3 weeks. It is well spec'ed which, in itself, is a contradiction. my choices have not been based on weight saving, so whilst I have CCBs and Carbon Bucket Seats, it is also an auto and has all the driving assistants. so, some gains and some losses.
This will be my 7th M3/M4 having had at least one of every generation (expect the E30 ) which means a couple of things. 1. I am getting older and 2. I can compare to previous transitions.
On the second point, one thing has always been true; the cars have got better in pretty much every respect. Please note, this is a personal opinion. I could ramble on about the introduction of electronic steering, turbos and less cylinders but, for me, much of this will not mean anything until I drive the car. For many of the early adopters, this is going to be a leap of faith, with no test drives and no reviews as reference, but this will not be the first time and I have never been disappointed.
Thanks again for the original article and I, for one, am massively excited and I think the car will be epic.
Sorry, bit of a sunday morning ramble

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Do you read what you write or do you just copy-paste? When and where was the M4 F82 1572kgs manual/1590kgs auto? Not on this planet, it was barely under 1600 kg in its lightest possible configuration (manual, carbon ceramic brakes, 19" rims, no leather interior, no heated seats, no power seats, no EDC), 99% of M4 F82s you see on the road are around 1620/1640 kg and with DCT you're always over 1600.
As already shown the weight increase with the new G8x is around 70/80 kg, not 185.
We have 1640 kgs for a F82 DCT and 1674kgs for a G82 manual (tested) with carbon seats and (maybe) CCB, to be fair add 25 kgs for the gearbox and around 20 kgs for the seats and the brakes and you are at 1720 kgs, 80 kgs more.

80kg is in the right ballpark for very light spec cars of each. In the real world, I believe the weight difference will be greater due to available options. For example, the weight difference between the CCB and iron brake setup is much more significant on the G8X (~25kg) than on the F8X (~8kg). Another example is the standard seats with ventilation that will further increase the weight difference. IMO, the real world difference will be more in the 80-135kg range for RWD cars.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PhJ

Hi CAnAutM3,
interesting comment. I am eager to know the DIN/EU standards evolutions in time which make not possible to compare weight figures from 2014 till 2020. Can you please list those changes over time and their impact on the weight figures ? Can you also provide websites references on this ? Thanks in advance.
PhJ

I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.

[dgm3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I remember reading an article on the topic a few years ago. There were several revisions made to the standard. Back in 2014, when the F8X was released, the DIN weight was of base car without any of the factory options installed. That's how BMW came with a 1,497kg spec weight for the M4. The standards have now been revised where the cars have to be configured with the most common/popular options for the specs weight.

This is incorrect. Today EU weight corresponds to the weight of the base car (i.e without any option), with 90% of the fuel tank and with a 75 kg driver. The DIN weight reported by BMW is then the EU weight minus the 75 kg for the driver. In the past it was possible to report the lightest weight possible you could get throught the options (like CCB, bucket seats, radio/airco delete,....).