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      03-07-2021, 12:31 PM   #749
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Its funny how people get so sensitive when the buck tooth grill design is brought up. I wanted it to grow on me but it still looks like trash, even after seeing it person. The projected sales split seems reasonable, but I wonder if the design will affect total sales volume after the F8X was such a success.
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      03-07-2021, 12:41 PM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihc95 View Post
but I wonder if the design will affect total sales volume after the F8X was such a success.
no, it won’t affect the total sales because most of the customers actually like the car’s appearance when they see it live.
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      03-07-2021, 12:47 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
no, it won't affect the total sales because most of the customers actually like the car's appearance when they see it live.
[citation needed]
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      03-07-2021, 12:59 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
[citation needed]
self-citations count, too.
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      03-07-2021, 01:38 PM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dog face pony soldier View Post
[citation needed]
self-citations count, too.
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      03-07-2021, 03:28 PM   #754
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I don't think the grille was designed for a specific market's taste. Intentionally making something ugly is a design approach to make it obvious to others that you have a new, expensive model. Apple uses it in the iPhone - notch for X, camera array for 12.

Everyone will know you've got the brand new BMW because they'll know they've never seen that before.
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      03-07-2021, 04:46 PM   #755
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Originally Posted by xlover View Post
It's a scape goat comment from ppl that can not accept the grill that it was designed for the Chinese market... it was not. large grills are alive and well in the US.

Take a look at the pickup trucks for example ... massive grills and they aren't even sold in Asia.

Large prominent front end design is a part of mainstream car market demand in North America. It's only the tiny shoe box of traditionalists that cannot accept it.
Umm no Sir. Comparing a F-150 grill to an M3 grille is laughable for a comparison. Most every market is going this direction. Lexis was first, then Audi, then Toyota, now BMW. And it's not because "Americans" somehow chose this move. I'm 1 of 2 car enthusiast in my office and not one other person in my office thinks massive grills on any of these brands is a good look. The notion that customers keep buying them which must mean that Americans like them is also wrong. If it's the only thing available then that's what's going to get purchased regardless. Americans go through cars like diapers.
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      03-07-2021, 04:52 PM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStanman View Post
I don't think the grille was designed for a specific market's taste. Intentionally making something ugly is a design approach to make it obvious to others that you have a new, expensive model. Apple uses it in the iPhone - notch for X, camera array for 12.

Everyone will know you've got the brand new BMW because they'll know they've never seen that before.
The designers would say to you... "How dare you call it ugly! Unique, Aggressive, or perhaps Controversial, but not ugly!!"
Kidding aside, you're right... it will certainly get attention because it is different!
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      03-07-2021, 05:41 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
It's a scape goat comment from ppl that can not accept the grill that it was designed for the Chinese market... it was not. large grills are alive and well in the US.

Take a look at the pickup trucks for example ... massive grills and they aren't even sold in Asia.

Large prominent front end design is a part of mainstream car market demand in North America. It's only the tiny shoe box of traditionalists that cannot accept it.
People that don't accept it know it's ugly. Size is fine if it's well executed. The new grills are poorly executed and because of their size, are particularly obvious.
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      03-07-2021, 06:17 PM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
[citation needed]
I hated it even more in person. SPY didn't help either.
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      03-07-2021, 06:28 PM   #759
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Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
I hated it even more in person. SPY didn't help either.
For someone not buying this car you sure do spend a lot of time moaning about the grille. No one cares what you think, see you in a few months when you jump on the bandwagon because everyone likes it
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      03-07-2021, 08:32 PM   #760
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IMO, the grille is not the problem with this design. The problem is removing all BMW styling cues, replacing them with other manufacturer styling cues, and then calling this Frankenstein design a BMW because it has a big double kidney grille.

Wait until the next 7-Series and the X7 LCI show up with a Hyundai face and the BMW grille will also be removed for something more whatever.
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      03-07-2021, 10:28 PM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
Large, prominent grills do not automatically equate to awkward and incoherent front fascia design. The size of the latest BMW grills only serves to emphasize how ugly they are like a shout to the face.

Even the Lexus spindle is more harmonious with the overall front end design than Dukec's pig snout.

In a recent article, written for damage control, it was suggested that BMW estimated only 20% of the public approve of the grill on G2X/G8X.
Not to pick on you but It is thought process like this, taking specific comments out of context and applying them to an argument that the whole "Chinese grill" thing got started....

Bmw designers were laying out an obvious fact related to targeting consumers and tailoring a product to meet your sales goals within that target. I am oversimplifying and using made up numbers below to make a point, bmw was trying to say:

Total number of in market consumers for coupes is 100 ppl a year, bmw wants to sell 10 cars. If the design appeals heavily to 20 people who fit the target of "wanting to stand out" then they will hit their sales goals. In targeting those 20 and tailoring the design for a high conversion rate within that cohort it is possible the product may be unappealing outside the target.
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      03-07-2021, 11:03 PM   #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
It's a scape goat comment from ppl that can not accept the grill that it was designed for the Chinese market... it was not. large grills are alive and well in the US.

Take a look at the pickup trucks for example ... massive grills and they aren't even sold in Asia.

Large prominent front end design is a part of mainstream car market demand in North America. It's only the tiny shoe box of traditionalists that cannot accept it.
I am a little one from that tiny shoe box...
Just bought a brand new loaded M340i Performance Edition Individual just because that grill is repugnant to me (I am being diplomatic in here).
I waited for the new M3 and as soon as I saw it I bought my M 340 right on spot. And even this one is waiting for traditional Alpina grills.
Don’t care about “mainstream” as I am not a mondial sheep. I care about my own feelings, my own perception about design, my own taste and my own feelings about my car. And no, I don’t need a car with a truck face. A truck has a different role hence it has a different message to send outside.

A car should represent me, not the mainstream....
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      03-07-2021, 11:23 PM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
I hated it even more in person. SPY didn't help either.
I saw a few of them live and I still think they're too ugly to get between me and my money.
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      03-08-2021, 05:09 AM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
It's a scape goat comment from ppl that can not accept the grill that it was designed for the Chinese market... it was not. large grills are alive and well in the US.

Take a look at the pickup trucks for example ... massive grills and they aren't even sold in Asia.

Large prominent front end design is a part of mainstream car market demand in North America. It's only the tiny shoe box of traditionalists that cannot accept it.
People are so upset about the design language (*cough* grilles) they will lash out in the strangest ways...I'm not from Asia and I love the new design.
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      03-08-2021, 06:31 AM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
It's a scape goat comment from ppl that can not accept the grill that it was designed for the Chinese market... it was not. large grills are alive and well in the US.

Take a look at the pickup trucks for example ... massive grills and they aren't even sold in Asia.

Large prominent front end design is a part of mainstream car market demand in North America. It's only the tiny shoe box of traditionalists that cannot accept it.
I completely agree to this, just look at the 2021 Escalade.
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      03-08-2021, 06:56 AM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverik259 View Post
Umm no Sir. Comparing a F-150 grill to an M3 grille is laughable for a comparison. Most every market is going this direction. Lexis was first, then Audi, then Toyota, now BMW. And it's not because "Americans" somehow chose this move. I'm 1 of 2 car enthusiast in my office and not one other person in my office thinks massive grills on any of these brands is a good look. The notion that customers keep buying them which must mean that Americans like them is also wrong. If it's the only thing available then that's what's going to get purchased regardless. Americans go through cars like diapers.
Lexus first?? Not even close.

Audi started it back in 2004...
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      03-08-2021, 12:36 PM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
For someone not buying this car you sure do spend a lot of time moaning about the grille. No one cares what you think, see you in a few months when you jump on the bandwagon because everyone likes it
If it wasn't on the front page, I wouldn't be commenting. If you don't care about my opinion, don't comment on it. Perhaps your qualms should be worth the moderators that solicit feedback on the front page. :
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      03-08-2021, 12:55 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
You would almost be correct if the incoherent design element at question was applied to only coupes, of which it is not (4 GC, M3 Sedan, iX).

The myopia that Dukec and his team suffer from is so severe that they slapped it on the iNext, the one product that is supposed to carry the brand out of obsolescence. So your excuse that it was some calculated tactic to succeed in coupe sales is based on broken logic.

The reality that you'd like to pretend doesn't exist (like an ostrich with its head planted in the sand) is such that the majority of the market ridicules the failed design, to the extent that the brand has become a meme - this is far beyond just a small group of "traditionalists" and their subjective criticisms. The highest praise written by an auto journalist to date is "controversial".

The blundering failure is further substantiated by BMW paying for advertorials to try and convince the public that the designers aren't THAT incompetent - or at least give them a break, they're just artists and humans.

Now, whether or not the grill was inspired by gaudy Chinese taste or not, only Dukec and his team can confirm. But back to the topic about "big grills", a large kidney grill is evident on the G11 LCI or the X7 - a large AND incoherent grill is what's on the G2X/G8X/iX. What's the difference? The disproportionate vertical length of the grill starts from above the hood line and continues down to the spoiler lip just above the asphalt. The result is akin to an inadvertently bad photoshop of a normal kidney grill where the aspect ratio was not locked. If you did this with your best selfie, your nostrils will stretch through your mouth down to the bottom of your chin. Is this bold? No, it's just plain incompetent.
How can we speak for the majority of the market at this point in the game?!? In five year's time perhaps, but the race hasn't even begun yet. Let's see what the consensus is on the G8X in 2024 before we start talking about the majorities.
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      03-08-2021, 01:54 PM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
I don't think we need to 'speak' for the market - the internet has already spoken.

What we can wait for now is just how many of those that defend the design will actually put their $85K (or $95K for the Competition w/M xDrive) down on one.
Regarding your "the internet has spoken" comment, that is really silly. The vast majority of consumers aren't even on these forums or engaged in car talk on the internet. Using that as a predictor for sales when the general car-buying public is not even aware of the model yet is flawed.

The cars are also $69 and $72k for the base and competition models. The price difference is $2,900 and not $10,000.

You can build them however you want (mine is $90k with an individual color) but the vast majority of people will be in the $70's, just as they were with the F8x.
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      03-08-2021, 02:04 PM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
I don't think we need to 'speak' for the market - the internet has already spoken.

What we can wait for now is just how many of those that defend the design will actually put their $85K (or $95K for the Competition w/M xDrive) down on one.
Regarding your "the internet has spoken" comment, that is really silly. The vast majority of consumers aren't even on these forums or engaged in car talk on the internet. Using that as a predictor for sales when the general car-buying public is not even aware of the model yet is flawed.

The cars are also $69 and $72k for the base and competition models. The price difference is $2,900 and not $10,000.

You can build them however you want (mine is $90k with an individual color) but the vast majority of people will be in the $70's, just as they were with the F8x.
He knows that his internet argument is significantly flawed. He's just arguing out of boredom.
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