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      02-21-2021, 09:22 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
yea but the issue is the marketing is trash. Who are they appealing to again? 20-something year -old's during a pandemic when many of the target demo are losing employment, many of which have already been saddled with student loan debt and are underemployed? Doesn't seem like good marketing.

I don't think young people care about german enthusiast cars in general, its all Elon and Tesla, and no amount of targeted marketing is going to reverse that trend. They just did themselves a disservice with that target demographic. Because there aren't that many young people that have an extra 80K-90K laying around.

And I'm not counting Silicon Valley, because they are electric focused anyway.
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      02-23-2021, 02:46 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
I'm in Southern California, Orange County specifically where you usually see more 3s and 4s than Corolla's and Civics.

In the time since it's release I've seen 1 new 4 series on the road. That's it.

But with that being said a 430i buyer and a M4 buyer are looking for completely different things and mind as well be shopping in completely different universes.
I have noticed the same thing in OC. The particular part I am in I tend to see the latest cars immediately after release, sometimes I don't even realize a car is released and I have already seen it here. With the new 4-series I have only seen it once and it was a dealer loaner car.
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      02-23-2021, 02:49 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
The waitlists at dealers and it going for over MSRP would say different.

They are already discounting at many dealers. I have seen 5% off on ordered cars already. That was not the case for over a year on the F80.
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      02-23-2021, 04:34 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Flamingi View Post
Can't compare the discounts from Germany and the US. In the US (BMW in general, not G80 specific) the final price is MSRP or just a few percent discount whereas in Germany 20%+ (on the F36 you can get 37% right now) discount is normal even on newly released models. You were able to preorder a G20/21 with 18% discount in Germany before it even launched, and the G20 is a sales success.

Also 20-30% discount on a G80 is a bit of a stretch, the most I saw until now was 14% on a factory order and 19% for a short term registered car (Vorführwagen/Kurzzeitzulassung). (FYI for the US readers: there are no stock cars in continental Europe, new cars are all build to order)
I am aware than I need to be wary doing the comparison, but I am just telling what I see.
Although I am located in Germany, I spoke about Europe since I do know people in person in Portugal who has gotten a G80 with 30% discount (I am not even kidding). Germany 20% seems to be the norm after some discussions with the dealer. Thats what I got for my M2, too.
It seems like BMW's strategy (at least for Europe) was to increase prices and also increase the discounts theyre making. Lets be honest, we'd all rather by a car with 20% discount than another for the exact same final price with 0% discount.
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      02-23-2021, 04:37 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by BSM2C View Post
32 year old programmer with an m2 comp says hello *wave*
Yeah, I bought my M2C at 26 and I am in a great position in life. However, I also realize how good I have it (blood, sweat and tears; regardless) and that the average is way below that.

And tbh, so many younger people than me driving an M2. Financing with low interest rates made it possible (nothing against it, idc what someone does to his/her money).
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      02-23-2021, 12:49 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
The waitlists at dealers and it going for over MSRP would say different.

They are already discounting at many dealers. I have seen 5% off on ordered cars already. That was not the case for over a year on the F80.
I'm gonna say comparing the release of the F80 to the G80 is going to be tricky, seeing as the F80 was not released during a global pandemic with civil unrest and economic instability. Who knows though.
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      02-24-2021, 10:30 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
I'm gonna say comparing the release of the F80 to the G80 is going to be tricky, seeing as the F80 was not released during a global pandemic with civil unrest and economic instability. Who knows though.
You are very right with that assumption. I have detailed in other posts that macro economics play the biggest role in generation vs. generation sales comps. We would have to look at market share for the segment by generation etc.
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      02-25-2021, 06:57 AM   #140
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To be honest, leave corona aside and check stats for G20 - 2019 BAD sales, 2020 also(we can assume its corona effect) but you have to know that world population grew roughly 10% percent since old m3 and f30 introduction. People are richer on average than 2012-2014 even if you take corona in account... its just saloons dont sell good anymore and car is not anymore status on which BMW, Mercedes and Audi built the sales.. and all other producers innovate now, they are not more copy cats anymore.. g20 is outdated already 2 good years after market launch. Even if people complain how bad grill it its from G80, just put it next to g20 and you will think g20 is ancient... that grill will show the status that bmw is offering to young hipsters, no other feature on the car outshines the old F80 even if traction is alot better you wont appreciate in real traffic thats why the focused on grill and noise insulation and cabin feel to be more luxurious for everyday ride so hipsters can drive relaxed but with image that they are pro racers because of the grill... tail lights are outdated already- expect LCI soon.
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      02-25-2021, 10:07 AM   #141
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It will be interesting to see what direction this all takes. This article in R&T seems to think those grills are here to stay, but between the article and the comments, there isn't too much love! lol
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...ike-it-or-not/
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      02-25-2021, 11:51 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siberius View Post
To be honest, leave corona aside and check stats for G20 - 2019 BAD sales, 2020 also(we can assume its corona effect) but you have to know that world population grew roughly 10% percent since old m3 and f30 introduction. People are richer on average than 2012-2014 even if you take corona in account... its just saloons dont sell good anymore and car is not anymore status on which BMW, Mercedes and Audi built the sales.. and all other producers innovate now, they are not more copy cats anymore.. g20 is outdated already 2 good years after market launch. Even if people complain how bad grill it its from G80, just put it next to g20 and you will think g20 is ancient... that grill will show the status that bmw is offering to young hipsters, no other feature on the car outshines the old F80 even if traction is alot better you wont appreciate in real traffic thats why the focused on grill and noise insulation and cabin feel to be more luxurious for everyday ride so hipsters can drive relaxed but with image that they are pro racers because of the grill... tail lights are outdated already- expect LCI soon.
Yeah I don't think people having kids in developing nations equates to any causation of of BMW sales or lack thereof. I'd put down whatever it is you're smoking if I were you.
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      02-25-2021, 12:26 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Yeah I don't think people having kids in developing nations equates to any causation of of BMW sales or lack thereof. I'd put down whatever it is you're smoking if I were you.
You are right, developing countries in Asian markets bought more than two times than USA- which is wealthiest nation. IN EUROPE 30% of all BMWS were sold in east europe in 2017, market which had less than 20% of total gdp of west europe. More than 50% of bmws sold in west europe is sold to germans. The mayority of bmw owners in germany are now turkish immigrants and immigrants from developing country like balkans etc.. My statement was that bmw is not anymore a status symbol unlike it was 15 years ago. Nordic countries are more inclined to electric future and less and less people from west europe use cars - public transport is spacex compared to USA. I work in automotive industry for more than 20 years and i was key account manager for companies in developing countries and i can tell you that those markets are more oriented toward status and brand name than USA and West EUROPE. Thats why BMW is focusing ASIAN markets rather than Europe. BMW factory is biggest exporter in USA but sells the least in USA - fact. Enjoy your thinking that only american with highest debt in the world can afford BMW.
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      02-25-2021, 12:42 PM   #144
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That's a lot of text to end up still being wrong lol

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/01/17/u...bmw-m-in-2019/

Not talking about a 330i etc, this is about the M3/4 sales
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      02-25-2021, 01:42 PM   #145
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I was referring to total bmw sales in general in my text above. Also USA 330 milion market vs Germany 82 milions, gives a clear advantage per capita to germans more than twice or almost any other european union country(M cars in Europe are somewhere 2 times more expensive than USA but still sells alot more per capita than usa with smaller purchase power). The thing is that main business are basic models and M cars today are less exclusive than 12 years allthough they are more expensive. With no good basic car sales there wouldnt be a M car models... And while i agree more poeple buy M cars in wealthy nations than in developed countries this trend might be only for this generation of G80 since other markets will catch up because basic sales will attract new customers who will want M as upgrade to to differentiate from other mass buyers. Developing markets will go same process as West Europe and USA gone 15 years ago and thats why they need to sell mass cars(luxury segment) to them before interest becomes small like it is..I worked for 7 years in marketing company for a luxury car producer, and we were responsible to analyze back then very poor markets like BOSNIA, TUNISIA, EGYPT, ALGERIA, TURKEY and prepare the marketing strategy. How many advertising boards were in Bosnia and Serbia after the war or in Algeria in 1998 with cars like HYUNDAI, VW, KIA? All boards had a luxury brand on them and 95% of people couldnt afford a bicycle let alone the car. Only luxury brads invested in marketing because they knew status attracts the wealthiest and this mentality passed to hard working people after. Nevertheless there was only TOYOTA who managed to outrun luxury big 3 in middle east since it was the only producer who offered reliable and well built japanese cars for their sandy environment. But i agree with you, i gone too big talk with general bmw direction and you were reffering to M models. Anyway i think this generation G80 will sell worldwide less than previous F80 especially if we take in account the sales per capita. Competition is much stronger then it was 2014 aswell.. i hope all the best for bmw which in my opinion was really the best driver car and still is but i think there is no big diffrrence anymore from much cheaper competitors and they lost the vibe in the process of attracting the milions for bigger profits.
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      03-02-2021, 07:03 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
BMW has definitely stared down the grill haters.

Here's the thing though - most complaining are going on about their love of the older designs and their dislike of the new colours, partnerships with lifestyle brands and hyper aggressive grills.

BMW knows full well the M3 makes its brand. Future generations are giving up on cars. You have to appeal to them to give your brand legs going forward. And they are doing that ten times over - after all they only get to launch a new M3 every 7 years.

The older M buyers can retreat to a M5 or SUV or go back hardcore to a M2. The brand will live on through their hyped up M3 marketing.

And that's why they're smarter than the complainers.
It's obvious to a lot of people that BMW design team did a great job.

To be honest, if G8x M3 and M4 had the same old small kidney grilles, I wouldn't buy any of them! Small kidney grilles are so in the past. I already got bored of them and don't even wanna look at them also because they always remind me of early 2000s and 2010s. I like to look forward and enjoy what's new.

I got a brand new 6MT G82 M4 3 days ago. I get a lot of complements from strangers who don't even know what M4 is.

Kudos to BMW design team
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      03-03-2021, 10:14 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by nathanm4 View Post
It's obvious to a lot of people that BMW design team did a great job.

To be honest, if G8x M3 and M4 had the same old small kidney grilles, I wouldn't buy any of them! Small kidney grilles are so in the past. I already got bored of them and don't even wanna look at them also because they always remind me of early 2000s and 2010s. I like to look forward and enjoy what's new.

I got a brand new 6MT G82 M4 3 days ago. I get a lot of complements from strangers who don't even know what M4 is.

Kudos to BMW design team
It's subjective, and for the most part, subjectively there has overall been more criticism than praise. Regardless, enjoy your new M4, it doesn't really matter what most people think since it's your car and you put your money where your mouth is. It's no longer a car for me, so I'm looking for something sportier and more performance focused.
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      03-03-2021, 10:17 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
That's a lot of text to end up still being wrong lol

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/01/17/u...bmw-m-in-2019/

Not talking about a 330i etc, this is about the M3/4 sales
Maybe I'm not following correctly but wasn't the discussion about BMW, not just BMW M Cars?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...20in%20Germany.
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      03-03-2021, 11:46 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
That's a lot of text to end up still being wrong lol

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/01/17/u...bmw-m-in-2019/

Not talking about a 330i etc, this is about the M3/4 sales
Maybe I'm not following correctly but wasn't the discussion about BMW, not just BMW M Cars?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...20in%20Germany.
No, I've no interest in non M cars and we're in the M3/4 section. It started from me replying to this-

Quote:
Originally Posted by PVC View Post
X4M is hideous too, but it's an amazing driving machine. BMW should fire all their designers for being so bold and making such an ugly M3 that almost everyone seems to hate.
Then he went off into BMW as a whole, but it was about the new M cars originally.

And regarding the more negative than positive comments on the car; welcome to the internet. People are more likely to comment when it comes to complaining than they are praising, especially if it means going against the popular idea for fear of being wrong or singled out. How often does someone leave a bad review compared to a good review for example; it's human to want to fit in and have confirmation. Most people don't think for themselves and just follow along, I'm already seeing it on social media and Reddit as people start to say they like it and others follow as more and more images and videos come out, I got downvoted to oblivion a few months back and now I've been upvoted the last few weeks more often than not for saying good things about it.
The big shift will be in a few weeks once people see it for real on the roads, I've no doubt the views will change and the overall sentiment and comments will follow. Change is hard for a lot people and this was a big change!
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      03-03-2021, 12:20 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by CityLife View Post
They are already discounting at many dealers. I have seen 5% off on ordered cars already. That was not the case for over a year on the F80.
Are you saying that dealers are having trouble getting rid of cars or that they are already discounting cars because of what you think is the relative undesirability of the car (that's not for sale yet)?
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      03-04-2021, 02:16 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Are you saying that dealers are having trouble getting rid of cars or that they are already discounting cars because of what you think is the relative undesirability of the car (that's not for sale yet)?
Lol I am saying exactly what my post is saying. Stop trying to put words into people's mouths. I love how the biggest instigators on forums always start their responses with "are you saying" and then continue to make assumptions, why not just read what they actually wrote?

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      03-17-2021, 06:55 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
It's been 5 months and the cars are out and so are the reviews.

Personally it's not for me, but it does seem like it's for everyone else!

Just saying.
I love what bmw did for the G80. Driving performance and exterior design.
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      03-17-2021, 08:04 PM   #153
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It's got a great personality.
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      03-18-2021, 01:08 AM   #154
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32 year old programmer with an m2 comp says hello *wave*
About to be a 33 year old programmer with an M3 🤣
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