02-26-2021, 10:34 AM | #133 | |
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Car scientific magazines have to provide clear, relevant and understandable car manufacturer data as well as measured data. Auto Motor und Sport (AM&S) provides many measured data of high quality and is one of the most detailed car scientific magazine for that. But they could do a better job concerning car weights. Thanks to your good suggestion, CanAutM3, AM&S will have the opportunity to improve their reporting on car weights. I went out yesterday for shopping and stopped by at a magazine shop to buy the last edition of AM&S, even if the cover page was not very attractive but this is not what I was searching for. I read on page 3 what I was looking for: the name and the email address of the 'Chefredakteurin'( chief editor) : Birgit Priemer, bpriemer@motorpresse.de. I will write to her a kind email asking her what AM&S means by leergewicht and I will speak about the confusion about using leergewicht for either DIN or EU figures in their car test reviews, suggesting to add EU or DIN whenever it is relevant. I will keep you informed. Concerning the real weight of my 2014 F80 MT, I contacted a BMW dealer as well as the Automobile Club of Luxembourg (ACL) to find out if they could weigh a car. No positive reply so far. If anybody has an idea about the type of garage or shop where I could get a car weigh measurement service, it is more than welcome. I will continue investigating. I wish a nice week-end to all of you. PhJ |
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02-26-2021, 11:00 AM | #134 | |
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Good summary on the complexity of weights and informative post ! Unfortunately, sampling of actual weighing of test cars is rarely available and difficult to compare with the weighing of other cars, considering the wide range of available standard configurations and options, unless an expert can provide a clear picture of the rules (and their history...). The only solid information seems to be finally the weight difference of 75 kg between EU and DIN weights for a given specific car. PhJ |
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02-26-2021, 12:29 PM | #135 |
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Why don't we all just wait for the actual scale weights to be posted on this forum? Won't be long as these are getting into the wild very soon and no doubt people will get them on scales pretty quickly.
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02-27-2021, 01:39 PM | #136 |
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The wait is an issue
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03-03-2021, 04:58 PM | #137 | |
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I therefore contacted this company and they told me that they have a platform floor scale to weigh cars and trucks. They said I could come whenever I want during the opening hours. Bingo !!!! The cost to weigh a car is ... 5 € ! I can afford it... I drove my F80 MT to a petrol station 200 m away from that company, filled up the tank, drove up to there and put my car ob platform floor scale and here it is : Big but expected disappointment concerning the weight of my M3 F80 MT of 2014, expected considering what I learned from this thread. The extensive standard equipment provided on F8x cars sold in Belgium/Luxembourg, combined with optional equipments I ticked when I purchased my F80, leads to a well equipped car which matches well with the equipment available on a standard G80 MT. So it is a good base to get a more realistic estimate of the REAL weight increase from F80 MT to G80 MT which, at the end, is about half the original assessment. This is a good news for the new G8x. On the other hand, it is pity to uncover that the well known weight standards DIN and EU have been misinterpreted (in the past only ?) to the benefit of publishing car unrealistically lower weights. Further investigation is needed to sort out this hot topic and weight legislation may have to be consolidated to avoid this issue in the future. |
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03-05-2021, 09:04 PM | #138 | |
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You are however making the same mistake again by not comparing apples-to-apples (actual weight vs EU) and trying to boil it down to a single number. A range of weight difference remains the best representation.
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03-05-2021, 09:50 PM | #139 |
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Better still, drive the thing and see whether you still think the weight is a problem for you.
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03-06-2021, 01:12 AM | #141 |
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Oh I am eagerly waiting for this years M Town Tour to do so. I have some issues with G8X (and BMW as of late) fundamentally but I’ll still give it its day on the road as I want this car to surprise me. Weight is only one of a few things I’m curious about and would like to be wrong about, however, I’ve driven cars at that weight and above with that level of power, many iterations of ZF8, late F chassis and G chassis M and Non-M cars, and I also understand the direction BMW is taking... I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. I’m not going to sit here and say it’s the end of days but I fully expect it to drive like a bigger, slightly to generally (model dependent) faster F8X with larger front tires + more camber, a less crisp transmission, and more compliant/insulated ride
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03-06-2021, 02:33 AM | #142 | ||
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03-06-2021, 03:07 AM | #143 | |
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03-06-2021, 03:25 AM | #144 |
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You are correct (again). What is the actual weight difference between the E9x and the F9X for comparably specced cars?
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03-06-2021, 03:53 AM | #145 | |
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Welcome back and thanks for your comment. I have two observations: -> Can you explain in more detail what you mean by" You are however making the same mistake again by not comparing apples-to-apples (actual weight vs EU)" ? As most weight figures claimed by car manufacturers are in EU kg, it makes sense to 'convert' a measured weight into a pseudo EU weight to compare it to the claimed EU weight. Otherwise, the claimed EU weight is of no interest and should not be mentioned anywhere. I say 'pseudo' EU weight as nobody knows at the end the exact configuration of the car used by BMW to claim 1595 EU kg as weight for the F80 MT in 2014. We even do not know, as you said in a previous note, if the car used for the 'claimed' EU weight could be bought with this configuration in any country at all. -> I agree with you that it is interesting to collect a range of weight differences for a car. Can you please unveil the range of weights you have collected so far for the F80 MT and AUT respectively and tell us what was the config for the two extreme weights for each model ? This will tell us by how much the weight can vary in the real world for F80 depending on the standard and available optional equipements selected. I am curious to find out if the weight difference could be as big as ~100 kg for F80. 100 kg seems to me a lot for simply features & equipment. Maybe I am wrong. Unless car manufacturers choose cars without wheels, without steering wheel and without transmission to claim their EU weight figures. Who knows ? Thanks in advance. PhJ |
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03-06-2021, 06:20 AM | #146 | |
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As I have posted earlier in the thread, the weight difference between various options/configurations has also changed between the F8X and the G8X, so comparing different specs of comparably specced cars will yield different differences (I had to read that twice ). As an example, coupe to sedan was ~20kg and is now ~5kg; and iron brakes to CCB was ~8kg and is now ~20kg; so comparing iron rotor coupes will show ~32kg more weight difference than comparing CCB sedans. That is why a single number does not work to properly depict the weight difference between generations. I have not "collected" much since G8X real world weights are quite scarce at this stage. As I wrote in post 64, my best guesstimate is 80-135kg of weight difference for comparably specced cars. Real world difference will likely be even greater because the G8X comes with (rather heavy) options that were not available on the F8x, such as ventilated seats, self closing trunk and eventually AWD. But I think we agree that the G8X in general will be quite the porker
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03-06-2021, 06:41 AM | #147 | |
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On the top of my head, I'd say the F8X was 30-65kg LIGHTER than its E9X predecessor for comparably specced cars.
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03-06-2021, 07:32 AM | #148 |
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Ah yes, F8X
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03-06-2021, 11:49 AM | #149 | |
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The size difference, on the other hand, probably will be noticeable. The E92 drove bigger than my E46, and the F80 drove bigger still (I was particularly struck by this on some of my first F80 test drives). And the new G80, of course, is significantly longer and a bit wider. |
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03-06-2021, 01:16 PM | #152 |
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03-06-2021, 01:29 PM | #153 | |
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The real weight increase of 89 kg from F80 MT to G80 MT seems realistic to me. However, this remains a quite big weight increase despite being half of the initial estimate. Imagine that you drive alone your car and afterwards, you drive it with an additional passenger of ~ 90 kg. I am sure that you will immediately notice the weight difference while driving your car: lower accelerations, lower agility in the corners, and so on. Back to your initial point. I say that the weight difference of 89 kg is realistic at least for the Belgium/Luxembourg market and this for the following reasons: - it is based on the measured weights of my F80 MT and of a G82 MT, both with a full tank and without the driver. -weight adjustments have been made for G82 MT to simulate G80 MT (+5kg) and to remove expensive lower weight packages (+30kg) -last but not least, I believe that my F80 MT and the G80 MT are similarly specced. Why ? * Because nearly all the standard equipement on F80 MT in Belgium/Lux is also standard equipment on G80 MT in Belgium/Lux. Remaining doubts are for headlight washing, rain sensors and automatic headlamps that I could not even find in the standard nor in the optional features of G80 MT. I would be very surprised if G80 MT would not have in standard equipment rain sensors and automatic headlamps (this would be a shame, in fact). *Because the key optional features I ticked on my F80 MT are now standard on G80 MT, at least in Belgium/Lux, such as M sport adaptative suspension and Park Distance Control (PDC). I had nevertheless ticked the options High Beam Assist, Head Up Display (HUP) and tinted rear windows on my F80 MT. Those options are also optional on G80 MT. I don't know the increased weight involved (a few kgs ?) but I am pretty sure that these options were NOT on the measured G82 MT. Concerning the Speed Limit Info, I could not see this in the list of standard or optional features on G80 MT but it would be a shame if they would not be standard. PhJ |
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03-06-2021, 01:54 PM | #154 |
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Scoale,
The low end torque is in fact one of my biggest fears concerning the G8x MT and to a lower extend also concerning G8x Comp. Weight is obviously also a concern. Switching from a E92 naturally aspirated engine to a lighter F80 with a turbo engine with a massive low to medium end torque generated for sure quite a BIG smile on your face ! The S58 engine of G8x is a high rev engine compared to S55 in F80, meaning that it pulls harder at high revs. But a low revs, this is the reverse situation. For daily driving, high torque at low/medium revs is for me more important than high power at high revs. If you do not care about fuel consumption (in other words, if you live in the States !), no problem to always push to high revs to get the power... but the speed limits will stop your enthusiasm. So you will have to go driving on circuits ! PhJ |
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