[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by vbb

The median household income in the US is about $76k/yr. Median rent is $2k/month, median home price is $416k. The average new car price is $48k with the average payment around $730/mo. People are spending about 12% of their gross, pre-tax income on their car payment.

Obviously these numbers vary when you look at specific localities, but those data points at least get the conversation started.

For ease of the math, let's say a new G8X is double the average new car price. Just based on the responses in this thread, I would guess most would say $152k/yr (double the median income) is probably too light to buy a G8X, but that would be in line with what the "average American" would consider enough. Kind of eye-opening.

I'm not arguing what people should do... that's subjective to each person's circumstances, preachy, and really, I don’t care what people i dont know spend on their car payments. I'm just pointing out the data.

That's bad math. To compare the average income to the average car payment you have to assume every household with an income owns a new car and has a new car payment, which is not the case.

[M4ROLLIN20]

I don’t like asking people how much they make, how much their car is worth. Feels kind of rude. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by M4ROLLIN20

I don’t like asking people how much they make, how much their car is worth. Feels kind of rude. 🤷🏻‍♂️

In a real world setting, knowing how much other people make is to everyone's advantage, except "the man".

[Gladius Nova]

I know that most have the mentality that "it's no one's business but mine", but do you all "hide" your $1500^ monthly car payments from people in your lives (family) beside your SO for fear of them spitting out their coffee when they hear it? Obviously only the ones that are financing most if not all of the cost. Just curious.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

That's bad math. To compare the average income to the average car payment you have to assume every household with an income owns a new car and has a new car payment, which is not the case.

Of course it isn't a perfect comparison and there are a lot of variables that are unaccounted for. My point wasn't to reduce this discussion to a math equation, but just to point out what the medians were so that we could understand how people are actually living. Yes, people with median incomes are more likely to purchase a used car for less money than the average new car price. New cars are "luxury" expenses for most people. But let's not lose sight of the fact that people spend a lot more of the percentage of their incomes on their vehicles than financial planners would ever recommend. This is even more true for car enthusiasts that see their vehicles are more than just tools to get from A to B.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Gladius Nova

I know that most have the mentality that "it's no one's business but mine", but do you all "hide" your $1500^ monthly car payments from people in your lives (family) beside your SO for fear of them spitting out their coffee when they hear it? Obviously only the ones that are financing most if not all of the cost. Just curious.

I don’t intentionally go around talking about my car payments (my car payment isn’t anywhere close to $1500 though) but I don’t see any reason to hide it if someone asked me. What’s there to hide? Your insecurity of a poor financial decision?

If you’re making good money, there’s no shame in owning a nice car. If you make $100k and are buying a $100k m3, you’re probably living beyond your means.

[Gladius Nova]

Originally Posted by r0wr

I don’t intentionally go around talking about my car payments (my car payment isn’t anywhere close to $1500 though) but I don’t see any reason to hide it if someone asked me. What’s there to hide? Your insecurity of a poor financial decision?

If you’re making good money, there’s no shame in owning a nice car. If you make $100k and are buying a $100k m3, you’re probably living beyond your means.

If you are referring to me, I am far from being insecure about anything in my life. I was just asking a question. Especially to those who have "boomer" parents who tell stories about their first houses costing only $35k, who would NEVER buy a new car, or their first car payment being like $50/month, all while surviving on a $20k a year salary.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Gladius Nova

If you are referring to me, I am far from being insecure about anything in my life. I was just asking a question. Especially to those who have "boomer" parents who tell stories about their first houses costing only $35k, who would NEVER buy a new car, or their first car payment being like $50/month, all while surviving on a $20k a year salary.

Apologies, I didn’t mean to direct that to you specifically. I was referring to the general person who is insecure about sharing.

And thankfully, I have boomer parents who recognize that it’s harder than ever to be competitive in this economy. I think we can all agree salaries/wages have not kept up with the cost of living. Buying a house for the first time in SoCal is difficult unless you have some serious income, help from relatives, or are living far from the coast. The reality is that most people can’t afford to live here which is why they’ll be in the perpetual cycle of renting, which honestly has its own merits.

[Gladius Nova]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Apologies, I didn’t mean to direct that to you specifically. I was referring to the general person who is insecure about sharing.

And thankfully, I have boomer parents who recognize that it’s harder than ever to be competitive in this economy. I think we can all agree salaries/wages have not kept up with the cost of living. Buying a house for the first time in SoCal is difficult unless you have some serious income, help from relatives, or are living far from the coast. The reality is that most people can’t afford to live here which is why they’ll be in the perpetual cycle of renting, which honestly has its own merits.

I agree. My "boomer" retired mother actually has more income than me due to her investments, maxing out her 401k/Roth since before I was born and being wise with her money for the past 50 years. Unfortunately she doesn't drive anymore due to health reasons, but could pretty much buy a small fleet of G82s if she wanted (cash!).

[Juanero]

Originally Posted by Gladius Nova

I agree. My "boomer" retired mother actually has more income than me due to her investments, maxing out her 401k/Roth since before I was born and being wise with her money for the past 50 years. Unfortunately she doesn't drive anymore due to health reasons, but could pretty much buy a small fleet of G82s if she wanted (cash!).

thanks for sharing, and not to offend, but that is a prime example among a group of my colleagues. many people in our profession save, and invest to have in their retirement...but...in their retirement they can't get in and out of carbon bucket seats to save their lives. So. I go ahead and spend the money on cars so I can enjoy them now. Anyone of us could be dead tomorrow.

[nu2M]

A good friend’s parents had just passed away and I remember having a conversation with him about money. The takeaway for me was that each of us are on a timer and we all know this. It just hit home for me recently when my parents moved into an assisted living facility. Some are healthy until they pass away and most are bed ridden/immobile until the final exit. Trust me, you won’t need much $$ at that point. My advice is that if you can afford a toy or two, without sacrificing too much of retirement funds, just do it while you have your health. Fortunately, most people on these forums won’t have to worry about out living their retirement money. Life is short. Be good to one another and enjoy life to its fullest.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by Gladius Nova

I agree. My "boomer" retired mother actually has more income than me due to her investments, maxing out her 401k/Roth since before I was born and being wise with her money for the past 50 years. Unfortunately she doesn't drive anymore due to health reasons, but could pretty much buy a small fleet of G82s if she wanted (cash!).

I think you kind of inadvertently bring up the counter-argument to the point...your mother made all the right investment decisions earlier in life and so now she can afford anything she wants within reason, yet her health has failed and she doesn't drive. I know this isn't actually about your mother and you were just brining up her retirement to make another point, but remember, this is a car enthusiast forum. I think that is exactly the reason why people stretch to get cars they probably shouldn't be purchasing. They're afraid that when it actually can be completely justified financially, they may be too old to physically enjoy or even drive their car. If you love cars, as we all do, that's not a pretty thought.

I'm not suggesting everyone run out and spend money they don't have on an expensive car, but I'm just saying that there are a lot of people in between the reckless YOLO 21yr old making his first real paycheck and the "boomer" that has to have the GDP of a small country in the bank before he will spend a little bit on a toy. So yeah, maybe you tell the young guy who has no real estate, no real retirement account or investments and no savings that spending a ton on a fancy car just because his paycheck looks decent is a bad move, but there's also nothing wrong (in my book) with financing something with a comfortable payment and reasonable interest if the other areas of your financial life are well-managed. Net worth is a far better indicator than salary when it comes to deciding what actually makes financial sense, so the "what do you have to make to afford a _____" question is virtually impossible to answer.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by vbb

I think you kind of inadvertently bring up the counter-argument to the point...your mother made all the right investment decisions earlier in life and so now she can afford anything she wants within reason, yet her health has failed and she doesn't drive. I know this isn't actually about your mother and you were just brining up her retirement to make another point, but remember, this is a car enthusiast forum. I think that is exactly the reason why people stretch to get cars they probably shouldn't be purchasing. They're afraid that when it actually can be completely justified financially, they may be too old to physically enjoy or even drive their car. If you love cars, as we all do, that's not a pretty thought.

I'm not suggesting everyone run out and spend money they don't have on an expensive car, but I'm just saying that there are a lot of people in between the reckless YOLO 21yr old making his first real paycheck and the "boomer" that has to have the GDP of a small country in the bank before he will spend a little bit on a toy. So yeah, maybe you tell the young guy who has no real estate, no real retirement account or investments and no savings that spending a ton on a fancy car just because his paycheck looks decent is a bad move, but there's also nothing wrong (in my book) with financing something with a comfortable payment and reasonable interest if the other areas of your financial life are well-managed. Net worth is a far better indicator than salary when it comes to deciding what actually makes financial sense, so the "what do you have to make to afford a [...]

It’s definitely a balance. In my 20’s I was blowing money on cars and getting laid. Wouldn’t change it for anything. If I was stuffing it away of course I would have a bigger savings. I’m set up pretty well with plenty of FU money coming in every month. Rentals baby🤑. You also don’t want to just save save save and now your 65-70 with all this money and now you don’t want to do shit. Lol

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Juanero

thanks for sharing, and not to offend, but that is a prime example among a group of my colleagues. many people in our profession save, and invest to have in their retirement...but...in their retirement they can't get in and out of carbon bucket seats to save their lives. So. I go ahead and spend the money on cars so I can enjoy them now. Anyone of us could be dead tomorrow.

Originally Posted by vbb

I think you kind of inadvertently bring up the counter-argument to the point...your mother made all the right investment decisions earlier in life and so now she can afford anything she wants within reason, yet her health has failed and she doesn't drive. I know this isn't actually about your mother and you were just brining up her retirement to make another point, but remember, this is a car enthusiast forum. I think that is exactly the reason why people stretch to get cars they probably shouldn't be purchasing. They're afraid that when it actually can be completely justified financially, they may be too old to physically enjoy or even drive their car. If you love cars, as we all do, that's not a pretty thought.

I'm not suggesting everyone run out and spend money they don't have on an expensive car, but I'm just saying that there are a lot of people in between the reckless YOLO 21yr old making his first real paycheck and the "boomer" that has to have the GDP of a small country in the bank before he will spend a little bit on a toy. So yeah, maybe you tell the young guy who has no real estate, no real retirement account or investments and no savings that spending a ton on a fancy car just because his paycheck looks decent is a bad move, but there's also nothing wrong (in my book) with financing something with a comfortable payment and reasonable interest if the other areas of your financial life are well-managed. Net worth is a far better indicator than salary when it comes to deciding what actually makes financial sense, so the "what do you have to make to afford a _____" question is virtually impossible to answer.

Young people who are in there 20's typically have $0 or negative net worth. All they have is their income. There's an acronym for this, HENRY. Once again, $100k salary living at home with parents with $0 debt trying to buy a car is still a bad idea.

The scenario you bring up regarding his mom is bad too. The reality is that if she can afford multiple M cars later in life in cash, she certainly could have afforded one in the middle of it.


You don't have to be 65 and retired to buy your M3. You also don't need to be 20 and YOLO your money away. There's balance in between. To each their own. I bought my M4 in my late 20's and I have no regrets. I could have done it in my early 20's and been a lot less well off than I am now.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Consumption smoothing. It's what makes America run.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Consumption smoothing. It's what makes America run.

I had never heard of that term until you just used it. A quick Wikipedia search and yep, that's exactly the concept! Working hard but living an impoverished life during young and middle-ages just to have loads of disposable income in your older ages doesn't resonate with a lot of people. Striking a balance between saving and spending throughout all phases of life does.

I learned something today. Thanks!

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by Gladius Nova

I know that most have the mentality that "it's no one's business but mine", but do you all "hide" your $1500^ monthly car payments from people in your lives (family) beside your SO for fear of them spitting out their coffee when they hear it? Obviously only the ones that are financing most if not all of the cost. Just curious.

I don’t mind, the market normally dictates how much play money I have to get new toys as I like using my income to funnel back into the market for the tax benefits.

It’s the cost in modding that I keep quiet on as I would say “oh I’m only going to spend 6k here” and end up well over 10 by the time I’m done.

[imperfectluck]

On a side note despite how this thread started 12 pages ago, I have to say these more recent posts makes me enjoy being on the forums and hearing people take a rather controversial topic that would just be uninteresting and making it a far more engaging topic.

Appreciate you all.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Consumption smoothing. It's what makes America run.

No, what makes American run is debt.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by nu2M

A good friend’s parents had just passed away and I remember having a conversation with him about money. The takeaway for me was that each of us are on a timer and we all know this. It just hit home for me recently when my parents moved into an assisted living facility. Some are healthy until they pass away and most are bed ridden/immobile until the final exit. Trust me, you won’t need much $$ at that point. My advice is that if you can afford a toy or two, without sacrificing too much of retirement funds, just do it while you have your health. Fortunately, most people on these forums won’t have to worry about out living their retirement money. Life is short. Be good to one another and enjoy life to its fullest.

Inverse to what I wrote, I guess…. But I also feel retirement money is stupid. The gov forces you into the stock market. That’s the only reason I’m in it at all.

I hate Wall Street.
They are the biggest boldest motherfucking fraudulent pieces of shit the world has ever known. I hope they die buried in an avalanche of cash. They deserve it.

Start with blackrock please.

Anyway, I think you should leave something nice to your children, but outside that… spend it until you don’t have anymore, before it’s too late.

Pointless having millions and being debilitated by poor health to the point all you want to do is die… which is the future for all of us, eventually.

There is logic to living for today, if it is in moderation. You gotta pay off your house at least, so you can die in your own bed. Outside that and leaving some for your children so they have a better life than you did, spend that shit.

Timing is key here though.
You need to save enough to live through say 70, cause most people will live that long in decent enough health that you don’t want a living standard decrease right when it will hurt the most.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

It’s definitely a balance. In my 20’s I was blowing money on cars and getting laid. Wouldn’t change it for anything. If I was stuffing it away of course I would have a bigger savings. I’m set up pretty well with plenty of FU money coming in every month. Rentals baby🤑. You also don’t want to just save save save and now your 65-70 with all this money and now you don’t want to do shit. Lol

Explanations are in order.

It sounds like you’re writing that you expensed getting cars, and getting laid.

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by DO444

There is logic to living for today, if it is in moderation. You gotta pay off your house at least, so you can die in your own bed. Outside that and leaving some for your children so they have a better life than you did, spend that shit.

Timing is key here though.
You need to save enough to live through say 70, cause most people will live that long in decent enough health that you don’t want a living standard decrease right when it will hurt the most.

I agree with this. The issue is that most people today can't even afford to own a house. Blackrock, to your point.