09-01-2022, 06:32 PM | #24 | |
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09-02-2022, 01:53 AM | #25 | |
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What the car needs is a solution to the front grill. It is still hard to look at even with thousands spent on mods. |
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09-02-2022, 03:08 PM | #26 |
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Show me track data to verify your claims. I highly doubt some small shop has more money and bodies to throw at R&D than BMW M. When there is a problem engine related, I am sure BMW will point the finger at this being the culprit. Good luck, I would never buy this to replace OEM.
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09-02-2022, 05:05 PM | #27 |
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Hey everyone, wanted to chime in with some of the information I know firsthand about the product. I want everyone to have the right and full information to make their decisions for their M3/M4. These cars are now starting to be heavily modified and this is one of the supporting mods we would recommend with upgrading the turbos, tuning the ECU and so on.
CSF based this design off the same specs as their high performance heat exchanger for the Gen-2 B58 (Supra / 40i, Z4, etc). - Follow this link to see all the testing and data collection that CSF put into this exchanger w/ the data from several different companies all over the world. - https://csfrace.com/a90-91-toyota-su...eat-exchanger/ - CSF released this back in June of 2020 Here is some info directly from CSF as well that I wanted to add: -The OEM S58 heat exchanger is almost identical to the B58 one - it’s so close, we actually were able to fit a B58 one into the car during our initial R&D when we took everything apart to analyze and compare the systems. - The OEM core specifications on the B58 heat exchanger is exactly the same as the specs on the S58, the measurements are just slightly different and the tanks are slightly different, but besides this, it’s exactly the same thing - including being made by the same OEM manufacturer. - We have sold 500+ heat exchangers in ~2 years for the Gen-2 B58, and ~the same amount for the Gen-1 car. We have never received one complaint that it didn’t perform as intended. - Our B58 heat exchanger is installed on 10+ cars making over 900+hp, and a few making over 1000hp for Supras. 3) Therefore, because of our high-level of experience, we decided that since our B58 heat exchanger works very well, we’ll go right into production after refining the design and adding all the features we wanted to add throughout the R&D process (working with you on the rock guards, brackets for auto, working with a larger trans cooler, etc). 4) We’ve given 8 kits out to Beta testers: - this includes time attack cars (Art of Attack M4, Studio RSR, and Velocity Performance out of Canada) - A couple of guys who did roll racing at MPACT back in early August also had installed the part on the car - We also have it on several street cars w/ bolt-ons who have done extensive road testing for us (PSI and IND) 4B) Velocity Performance installed both the heat exchanger and a pre-production Zf8 trans cooler upgrade on their G82 and was able to shave 2 seconds off their time (I’ve attached a screen shot of our conversation). "Thank you CSF and their team for always coming out with the best cooling products in the market. Not only do we mainly offer CSF to our customers at Velocity Performance also we tested the new heat-exchanger and also the Transmission cooler from CSF on our G82 AWD M4 Time Attack Car, we immediately shaved 2 seconds effortlessly on just a practice set of tires!! Can’t wait for the drop on all the other parts.” 4C) Sumith Bepari (@g80_soom) - bought the heat exchanger as a beta tester before MPACT. - see his testimonial which I’ve attached a screenshot. Last year at MPACT (which was just as hot, if not hotter than this year), stock tune (w/ bolt-ons) running IAT”s of 130 degrees - this year, his car is now tuned with the unlock and ECUTEK, making 700+ hp, and he’s running under 125 degrees the whole day, and was even doing back to back runs as he advanced through the head to head runs throughout the day. We will be getting back to back (A/B) testing done on this part, along with our manifold asap - we wanted to get the product out to market after we felt confident that it works based on the beta tester info we got + previous experience on a very similar engine and heat exchanger. We will continue to do more testing and publish more information once it becomes available as more people get these on their car, share the feedback, etc. ******** I hope this explains/helps explain the development process of this part. Please PM or post with questions! |
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09-03-2022, 01:17 PM | #28 |
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The front mount heat exchanger plus air-to-water charge cooler both should be upgraded in order to see the benefits from cooling mods. This is from the context of what I learned from the F8x platform.
So unless BMW drastically improved the cooling for the S58 over the S55 then I'd say you'll want to upgrade both components. Where's the data? Here you go: Data log results: EOS Charger Cooler + Awe ColdFront Heat Exchanger https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908740 I've also added methanol injection to the above mentioned cooling mods and now see IATs 10-15F below ambient when I dropped the hammer. In summary, it is the combination of these 3 upgrades (I've found for the S55B30) to be highly effective for cooling. And lastly, if you run a cooler burning fuel such as E85 … I've found that my EGTs have been as low as 350-400F during WOT. Hope this helps
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09-03-2022, 02:48 PM | #29 |
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How does that effective cooling translate into hp? The charge cooler is 6k for the s58, the hp per $ ratio is beyond poor. 20f cooler air doesn't translate into 50hp gains, maybe 10 tops. Why are there no dyno graphs released with these cooling mods?
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09-03-2022, 02:53 PM | #30 | |
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09-03-2022, 08:53 PM | #31 |
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I wouldn't buy anything from CSF without hard data to back up their claims. Been proven they are selling nonsense that actually reduces performance over stock. Look for other brands, do your research. Don't fall for marketing.
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09-05-2022, 10:56 AM | #32 | |
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Thanks - HP, WHP etc. dyno numbers do not always translate into road use, race use. What is the difference between your core vs stock at 500 laps of the Nurburgring? I don't see the ring taxis changing radiators... just saying. |
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09-05-2022, 08:06 PM | #33 | |
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The s58 vs s55 cooling is night and day. RK Autowerks already showed it with data. https://www.rkautowerks.com/index.ph...tion-manifold/ Stop reaching and using other models as your “data.” RK Autowerks provided data and showed how good an oem manifold is, but was still able to quantify how much better the RK manifold is. Csf is the “leader in cooling” but can’t produce a lick of data? I suppose price is technically data. Or maybe you guys need to wake up and realize csf is the leader in marketing and sales, not cooling.” |
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09-05-2022, 11:57 PM | #34 | |
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We've done work for several years with RSRNurburg - here is a video of an N55 M2 which we did with them - we outfitted their entire fleet of this application Many Ring Taxis and rental companies have a big problem during the hot summer months with trying to keep their vehicles on track throughout the day as a lot of these cars do overheat and have overheating problems when being pushed hard for long distances. |
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M4Tejas789.50 |
09-06-2022, 08:45 AM | #35 | |
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Why use Pwr core if you're a radiator manufacturer. So does this mean only expensive stuff has good cores? Cheap stuff is all Indonesian? Why come in here talking about the ring when all the people asked for was data. Yet no Data is being presented |
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09-06-2022, 01:09 PM | #36 | |
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I wish this was true, but here's my experience during a couple track days last weekend in Colorado with outside air temps reaching 95ºF. Morning sessions in < 80ºF were fine. Afternoon, and after about 8 laps, maybe ~16-20 minutes at ~80% of the car's limit I had my oil temps exceeding 275ºF and the car warning me on screen. Only a warning stating continued driving possible. I pulled the power back on the straights and oil temps dropped after a couple easy laps. Coolant remained at 210ºF but after the warning, and easy laps, the coolant temps dropped dramatically before coming back up to 210ºF.
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09-06-2022, 01:51 PM | #37 | |
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09-06-2022, 01:54 PM | #38 |
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09-06-2022, 05:54 PM | #39 | |
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09-06-2022, 10:06 PM | #40 |
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When I had my Supra, I had all the cooling parts from CSF and still experienced high heat levels. It made no difference and especially with that expensive manifold. That thing traps heat. With no data, I'm sorry to say it's all it's all fluff.
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09-06-2022, 11:11 PM | #41 |
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This in unequivocally false - we have published data on every component of our B58 kit, including 3rd party validation by motoiq.com on the manifold performance which is published online - Our 5-piece kits are installed on 2 Toyota factory backed racing Supras in the USA - trolling
Last edited by CSF Cooling; 09-06-2022 at 11:17 PM.. |
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09-07-2022, 10:37 AM | #42 |
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Apex Taxi at Nurburgring just made a video the other day where they said the G80 taxi hard laps with their pro drivers in very hot weather over the summer and they experienced zero heat problems.
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09-07-2022, 12:23 PM | #43 | |
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You're not comparing apples to apples |
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09-14-2022, 11:34 PM | #44 | |
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