04-14-2021, 08:30 AM | #45 | |
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Metrics for accelerating from 80km/h in 4th is of limited value in a car that does nearly 120km/h in 2nd. Yes, we know the S55 has noticeably more torque than the S58 below 3000RPM; that’s part of the problem when it comes to maintaining good behavior launching off the line. Yes, the S58 will penalize you more for being out of gear since it makes its power higher up, just like an NA car. Those numbers are completely irrelevant to whether the car “pushes you back in the seat” during an actual acceleration run where the RPMs are always above 3000. In those situations, the numbers flip the other way in favor of the G8x. If you’re coming out of an S55 car and expect to be able to lazily punch it from 2000RPM and get the car moving semi-optimally, you will be disappointed. Sometimes I miss that character of my old F8x cars, but going to redline in the G8x is way more rewarding and exciting than doing the same in my old M4s, M3 CS, and M2Cs. |
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04-14-2021, 08:36 AM | #46 |
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Given that 100km/h is near the top of 2nd, to say the car won’t “push you in the back” at some point on the way to 100km/h in 2nd isn’t accurate, either. It may feel a bit weaker than an S55 car right when you push the throttle, but the power builds up quickly and the car is pulling harder at the end.
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04-14-2021, 08:51 AM | #47 | |
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From 6000 to the rev limit there is a nice kick, but after the upshift you're again in the "flat zone" because of the long gear ratios. |
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04-14-2021, 09:54 AM | #48 | |
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I still don't quite understand the "flat zone" you're talking about from 3000-6000; yes, the torque curve is exceptionally flat, and that means power (what you actually feel and what actually delivers the performance) is increasing almost perfectly linearly through this range. This behavior is typically reserved for well-engineered NA cars and is generally considered ideal, especially for motorsport use cases. The only "spike" in the G8x powerband is when you hit that long, wide torque "plateau" at 3000RPM. To me, an actual "flat zone" is a range where HP (power) is constant as revs rise due to falling torque, like you generally experience going to redline with older turbo engines (which, to some extent, includes the S55). In this "flat zone", there's a sensation that there's little reward for continually revving out and you feel like short-shifting. There is no part of the G8x's power delivery that feels like this. Going all the way to 7200RPM feels fantastic. My guess is you like the additional excitement of a torque curve that rises with revs, which is actually suboptimal if you were to compare two cars with similar peak torque numbers since your peaky car will have less area under its power curve, and thus less overall performance. It's also a deceptive feeling, as you're feeling a "torqueless wonder" become competent as the revs rise, while an engine like the S58 reaches competency much earlier and stays there the whole time. |
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04-14-2021, 10:01 AM | #49 | |
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04-14-2021, 10:19 AM | #50 |
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ZF8HP has 2 more gears to better exploit the powerband and shifts faster. On top, 650Nm is complete within design specification leaving additional head room for more, on the MT you'll have to pay the damage yourself because 550Nm is already the max design specification. Tuning it with a jb4 to 800Nm only rises the question: when? not whether? since that's pretty certain.
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04-14-2021, 10:23 AM | #51 | |
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Due to the pandemic measures it's not allowed to drive with the salesman in the passenger seat, for your information. |
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04-14-2021, 02:09 PM | #52 | |
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[QUOTE=02M3ForMe;27471378]
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This is how the stock power of an m2c feels to me at 5300 or so rpm to 7600. 2000 revs of being disappointed. |
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04-14-2021, 02:20 PM | #53 |
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Coming form a 6mt m2c the zf8 is honestly awesome in the 4c.
Maybe I'll get bored of it after a while but it currently rocks. I'll be getting a 6speed g87 when they come out so I'm not too worried about missing out on the manual for a year or two. |
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04-14-2021, 02:28 PM | #54 | |
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I'm looking forward to new owners performing similar tests and revisiting this thread and weighing in on the forum. |
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04-14-2021, 03:25 PM | #55 | |
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04-14-2021, 03:40 PM | #56 | |
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04-14-2021, 07:44 PM | #57 |
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It’s slower ... when you’re in the completely wrong gear. Again, 80km/h to 120km/h in 4th is a test for daily driving on your highway commute, not for telling you anything about how the car feels while you’re having fun on a track or a back road. In the proper gear, the G8x 6MT is faster than all S55-powered cars, with the only possible exception of the 480hp M4 GTS (and that’s a maybe since the G8x puts power down much better than any F8x).
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04-14-2021, 07:58 PM | #58 |
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Looking at the torque and power curves between the base and comp looks like the "de-tune" is only between 5500-6000 RPM.
base comp The two versions should be the same outside that range. |
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04-14-2021, 09:42 PM | #59 |
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Something is off with those charts as both show 600N-m. Base tune has 550N-m while Competition tune has 650N-m.
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04-14-2021, 11:25 PM | #60 | |
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lol, what? Just FYI this same getrag unit was used on the F10 which had 680nm stock... if anything you will need to change your clutch before something will have a hint of breaking... they say that their torque limit is around 600nm, bullshit, I don’t remember too many F10s or F80s breaking anything even with aftermarket clutch. JB4 is for kids... we need to hack that ECU asap! 😅💪 ZF slush box 1/4 mile and 100-200 times will be annihilated with the 6 speed... |
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04-15-2021, 09:10 AM | #62 | |
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The new S58 powerplant delivers 473 hp at 6,250 rpm and 406 lb-ft of torque between 2,650 and 6,130 rpm. The Competition models’ S58 engine is further tuned to produce 503 hp at 6,250 rpm and 479 lb-ft of torque between 2,750 and 5,500. So it looks like a bigger difference in torque through a wider range. Probably due to the mechanics of a pressure plate in the MT vs how the ZF8 can handle torque. |
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04-15-2021, 10:32 AM | #63 | |
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04-15-2021, 11:00 AM | #64 | |
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04-15-2021, 11:28 AM | #65 |
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Oh please.... You are saying it like there are only geniuses working in bmw product management and all decisions they make are the only correct ones... there are plenty of reasons for base M3/M4 to be detuned and we can speculate on them all we want. I can also ask, why, when a manual transmission can handle higher redline they didn’t raise the rev limiter for us on the base car... why why why, doesn’t make sense at all... are they stupid? 🤪
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