[Ilyam5]

Now that people had time to test drive some cars – has anyone driven both back to back?
I drove a manual but did not have a chance to drive an auto. Lack of Low end torque is really noticeable in a manual. You have to drive it like you stole it to get performance out of the car at regular street speeds. Car still shines in braking and cornering where I think they are equal but acceleration is the question.
Most tests do one or the other with majority concentrating on competition model, but these factors will really play a role in track time and straight line:
- 100lb deficit in torque
- 30Hp deficit in power
- Taller gears in manual
- Fewer gears in manual
- Slower shifting in manual

[Wheelwright]

I'd like to know that as well. Can you do a fast 2nd gear pull from 30km/h until you hit 80-100 ? Will it push you into the seat ?

[Pantagathus]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Now that people had time to test drive some cars – has anyone driven both back to back?
I drove a manual but did not have a chance to drive an auto. Lack of Low end torque is really noticeable in a manual. You have to drive it like you stole it to get performance out of the car at regular street speeds. Car still shines in braking and cornering where I think they are equal but acceleration is the question.
Most tests do one or the other with majority concentrating on competition model, but these factors will really play a role in track time and straight line:
- 100lb deficit in torque
- 30Hp deficit in power
- Taller gears in manual
- Fewer gears in manual
- Slower shifting in manual

I haven't driven the automatic so can't really comment on the comparison, but I'm sure from a standing start the auto will feel (and be) a ton faster. 1st gear on the 6MT is very tall, and the 1st - 2nd shift always feels a bit awkward to me, it's probably my biggest complaint. 2nd, and definitely 3rd, you are caning pretty much everything else on the street.

There is a huge difference (more than I expected) between engine modes. "Efficient" can feel kind of dull, sport+ is noticeably more responsive and feels a lot more powerful.

[frankiebones]

With respect, I don't understand the point of this post. Wanna know how much slower it is? A LOT.

The engine is down tuned and you have to manually shift. Therefore, not only does it take longer to shift but you lose boost while doing so when you take your foot off the throttle.

Every one of us who chooses a manual already knows this. We choose it because it's fun.

[Nkr15]

None of those things matter when you have the 3rd pedal, if you are chasing lap times for competition use, get the "competition" version. If you're a red light or freeway on ramp warrior just buy a tesla.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Now that people had time to test drive some cars – has anyone driven both back to back?
I drove a manual but did not have a chance to drive an auto. Lack of Low end torque is really noticeable in a manual. You have to drive it like you stole it to get performance out of the at regular speeds. still shines in braking and cornering where I think they are equal but acceleration is the question.
Most tests do one or the other with majority concentrating on competition model, but these factors will really play a role in track time and straight line:
- 100lb deficit in torque
- 30Hp deficit in power
- Taller gears in manual
- Fewer gears in manual
- Slower shifting in manual

The biggest issue causing this is the torque threshold beneath 2700rpm (already discussed several times). The excess torque of the competition is only available as from ~3000rpm so the delta in the engine set-up will not change this behaviour. Nevertheless, adding 2 gears versus the 6MT will allow to bridge that torque shabby zone faster and helps to avoid you drop below 3000rpm.

On the other hand, during none of the first test it was really criticised that the engine misses ooomphs beneath 3000rpm. In the contrary, there are much references to a more progressive and stronger engine experience all together. To be honest, I don't understand this. With the published torque curves, I would have expected this to be much more of an issue. Your comment is the first clear reference to a possible "issue".

[bri1042]

I second Frankie. Going from my DCT M2C to the 6MT G80, my expectation was that it, and I, would be slower. After a month with it, my MT skills are settled back in and so has the enjoyment of driving that I'd been missing for the last 8 years.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

I'd like to know that as well. Can you do a fast 2nd gear pull from 30km/h until you hit 80-100 ? Will it push you into the seat ?

Definitely not.
I recorded some pulls if you want to check how it goes, but it's not really the car that pushes you into the seat.

[Vintage]

Who cares: manual, straight six, bmw M. 0-60 times matter ZERO to me. I chose the "base" M3 and could buy the Comp - its basically the same price. I find it awesome that I can now have a MT sedan (i.e. somewhat practical) that looks menacing, is built by Germans, has awesome new tech, and hauls ass. The perfect work car. I believe that is the real magic here WORK SEDAN with a MT.

If I am going for 0-60 or even 1/4 mile times, I am not buying an M3/4 Comp for that purpose. A ton of better cars for that effort than a G80/82.

[CanuckM]

Originally Posted by Vintage

If I am going for 0-60 or even 1/4 mile times, I am not buying an M3/4 Comp for that purpose. A ton of better cars for that effort than a G80/82.

Not many cars left, let alone 4 doors with 400 hp + with a third pedal.

Camaro, Mustang, 911 and BMW M

[calibro9]

3rd pedal 4Life....

[CanuckM]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Therefore, not only does it take longer to shift but you lose boost while doing so when you take your foot off the throttle..

I am a little surprised as to why BMW did not give us the possibility of no lift shift. Not a deal breaker but would have been nice.

[Ilyam5]

I’m as excited to drive a manual car as the next guy and not questioning the involvement aspect.
Point is – it’s the first time BMw is giving us 3 different variants of the same car that are dramatically different – manual base, auto RWd and Auto AWD
So one would wonder should we have 3 different stats for all the performance measurements.
How different will Nurburgring times be? What about smaller tracks?
0-60 is understandable but on the long track Manual might have some advantages of lower weight, less drag, etc.

[CanuckM]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

I’m as excited to drive a manual car as the next guy and not questioning the involvement aspect.
Point is – it’s the first time BMw is giving us 3 different variants of the same car that are dramatically different – manual base, auto RWd and Auto AWD

I would argue the opposite actually. It is the first time that Competition models and what everyone calls "base" are so similar. Down torque and hp but everything else is totally identical.

In the past, Competition models have had entirely different suspensions, exhaust systems and in some cases completely different engines.

The similarity in price reflects it.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I second Frankie. Going from my DCT M2C to the 6MT G80, my expectation was that it, and I, would be slower. After a month with it, my MT skills are settled back in and so has the enjoyment of driving that I'd been missing for the last 8 years.

I'm a lifelong 6MT driver....haven't driven one in 2 years. I wonder how long it will be before I adjust.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I'm a lifelong 6MT driver....haven't driven one in 2 years. I wonder how long it will be before I adjust.

Yeah, it was a joy to handle a stick after a long time.
Unfortunately, the dull power delivery ruins the experience a bit And it's not a matter of performance.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Unfortunately, the dull power delivery ruins the experience a bit

You refer to the lack of low down torque?

[akkando]

I'm more interested in the subjective feel of power difference than the actual by the numbers power differences.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by Pantagathus

I haven't driven the automatic so can't really comment on the comparison, but I'm sure from a standing start the auto will feel (and be) a ton faster. 1st gear on the 6MT is very tall, and the 1st - 2nd shift always feels a bit awkward to me, it's probably my biggest complaint. 2nd, and definitely 3rd, you are caning pretty much everything else on the street.

There is a huge difference (more than I expected) between engine modes. "Efficient" can feel kind of dull, sport+ is noticeably more responsive and feels a lot more powerful.

Hi! Do you know what speed the car is going at the top of first, and at the top of second?

[spacecowboy85]

I don’t understand the “lack of power/torque” down low arguments, it is plenty powerful down low for a street car, unless you are expecting it to accelerate hard while in too high a gear.

I am not saying that anyone here doesn’t know how to drive a manual, but I wonder how many mash the throttle let’s say in 4th at 40mph and expect instant torque/thrust. The beauty of a manual is that at anytime unless revs don’t allow you can manual shift to a lower gear and get that torque.

Get a Tesla or Taycan if you want instant or better down low power.

Heck even a 911 turbo which is a beast in acceleration can feel low on torque down low if the wrong gear is selected.

Just saying it makes me wonder if autos have ruined/tainted the way a manual car should be driven to get the most out of it.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by spacecowboy85

I don’t understand the “lack of power/torque” down low arguments, it is plenty powerful down low for a , unless you are expecting it to accelerate hard while in too high a gear.

I am not saying that anyone here doesn’t know how to drive a manual, but I wonder how many mash the throttle let’s say in 4th at 40mph and expect instant torque/thrust. The beauty of a manual is that at anytime unless revs don’t allow you can manual shift to a lower gear and get that torque.

Get a Tesla or Taycan if you want instant or better down low power.

Heck even a 911 turbo which is a beast in acceleration can feel low on torque down low if the wrong gear is selected.

Just saying it makes me wonder if autos have ruined/tainted the way a manual should be driven to get the most out of it.

I know discussion is about MT vs AT, but I don't think that's the real ground of the discussion. Below 2700rpm, there is just not moving much. When you look at the output graph, torque of the S58 is even lower (and significant!!) than the one of the 330i. Just to give you an idea, 400Nm for the 330i at 1550rpm and 330Nm for the S58 at 1550 rpm. Even the 320d has more torque at plain daily conditions than the M3 competition.

Of course, you shift a couple of gears down and the M demolishes the pack of daily drivers. Nevertheless, it could "surprise" some relaxed passive drivers that would expect this rocket ship to be far superiour all of the time, always.

[tastes jigga]

I test drove the 8AT comp and base 6MT back-to-back. You definitely notice the additional torque in 3rd gear for the comp (it felt heavily limited in 1st and 2nd). I preferred the 6MT experience overall and it pulled hard all the way to redline, which was a pleasant change compared to my previous ownership experiences with turbo BMW's (including a F82 Comp 6MT).