[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by PeregrineFalcon

https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m...tition-package

https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4-competition-coupe

Here are the measured acceleration times for the both, G82 and F82 M4.
Even in gear acceleration shows that the new car is significantly faster

Measurements for both but are they :
Same temperature / road surface / tires / fuel / measurement tool ? all these factors will change the outcome.

It's hard to beat same day same place test same tires to be honest... Joe's test might not be perfect but at least he got these right.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not really the case. According to this survey, the 2018+ are the ones that have the most SCH failure and the highest rate of failure. For whatever the result of this small sample survey mean, I don't believe there's any correlation between MY and SCH failures. IMO, the only significant factor for SCH failure is stock tune or aftermarket tune.

There are a bunch of unsold 2020 F82's in Ontario I have been kicking the tires on but I am a little worried about the SCH failures. I get that these things get blow out of proportion on the internet but it's nevertheless alarming to see stock engines fail even at these numbers.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by adc

I got exactly the opposite. G82 Bloated, boring profile, that nose.

Interesting how people can look at the same thing and see/experience it so differently.

I think how you view these cars is highly dependent on what version you own as is always the case when a new model rolls out for any automobile.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Measurements for both but are they :
Same temperature / road surface / tires / fuel / measurement tool ? all these factors will change the outcome.

It's hard to beat same day same place test same tires to be honest... Joe's test might not be perfect but at least he got these right.

Of course that the same place and the same day conditions are the best for objective comparison, but there is no denying based on many instrumented tests that the new M4 is much quicker car.

On the other hand Joe's test from a dig was one of the most useless drag races I have seen in the long time. Not once was he able to launch the car properly!
Just compare that to a Carwow test for example, where the new M4 was faster than the RS5 from a dig, and on the wet track.

The only part that has some validity to it was the rolling race in the second gear. The new M4 was pulling away incredibly easy on the old one, even though Joe was hitting the limiter in the second gear
Also the distance they were covering is to short for any meaningful comparison.

Bottom line, fun, but useless

[rmedeir1]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

I would have thought with 60 additional hp and newer/better technology the G80 would've easily beaten the F80 but it looks like the extra weight of the G80 made it a close race. This shows how good the F80 was and still is.

This also shows that the G80 suffers the same traction issues as the F80 and if I was getting the G80, it'd be with AWD.

Betting for those looking for a deal on an M4 with near performance to G82 the alternative to buying new G82 and the significant depreciation that will come 1st 2 years is to buy used F82 and add a stage 1/2 ECU to get similar output, not as great traction improvements, blah blah blah.

My bigger question is if I am anxiously waiting for and considering AWD G82 given the results in the recent video is the added weight going to be worth the performance return? Maybe my hopes are too high on what AWD will bring to the platform....

[PeregrineFalcon]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Yes, G80 is fast (faster than the F80) and those times are legit, except that they're measured from full boost which in the real world scenario is not practical.

Even in the competition environment a lot of times are spent in boost buildup, for example kickdown, turn exit, hard brake and re-WOT & etc.

G82

60 - 100 kph (4) 2.6 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 3.7 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 3.2 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.2 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 9.9 s

F82

60 - 100 kph (4) 3.6 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 5.5 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 4.5 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.1 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 10.3 s

When we look at the in gear acceleration, I don't believe that the rpm was above 2000 in any case, and in most cases it was around 1500 in higher gears, so I don't believe that the engine was at full boost?!

Just like in every other single drag race, the S58 car has always been the "underdog" and crawled its way back to win. In this particular video, apparently the S55 take advantage of the superior engine response and is able to hold up in both kickdown and high RPM rolling race, despite of a 60hp, or 13% power deficit (even bigger difference in whp). Weight difference, yes, maybe 150lbs or 4% of the car.

I can't say which engine is more responsive, but most of the reviewers say that the S58 is very responsive and that the turbo lag is almost non existent or negligible.
But in the rolling race in the second gear the G82 was markedly quicker (even though the Joe was hitting the limiter) and the response time was about the same.
When they used the kickdown, the new one was slower of the mark, but how much of that is attributed to the transmission is a big question mark?
Also, in the rolling race they have coverd probably around 200 m which is almost useless for any meaningful comparison.
The race from the dig was painful to watch how bad he launched the car

The slow response cost you speed (or pleasure) in about 95% of the time. Think why electric car feel insanely fast even with just 400hp? Ever experienced a 1000hp RS3 the drag champion? It has the jaw dropping performance measured, but is slow as hell anywhere outside of drag strip. Why?

I'll have to believe you on that one because I have never had the opportunity to drive the cars with so much power

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by PeregrineFalcon

G82

60 - 100 kph (4) 2.6 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 3.7 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 3.2 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.2 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 9.9 s

F82

60 - 100 kph (4) 3.6 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 5.5 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 4.5 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.1 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 10.3 s

I have to assume those as are DCT and 8AT (thank you solstice ), which means it is a pointless comparison of engines because of the different gear ratios.

Doing the same with 6MT for the F8X and G8X would give the true story since both share the exact same gear ratios.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Were these numbers obtained with 6MT, DCT or 8AT?

MT is out on both since there is a 7th gear. Must be DCT vs AT.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

MT is out on both since there is a 7th gear. Must be DCT vs AT.

Yes indeed, stupid me

Which means it is a completely pointless comparison of engines because of the different gear ratios.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I think how you view these cars is highly dependent on what version you own as is always the case when a new model rolls out for any automobile.

This time it's different. Many M enthusiast owners have owned many generations/versions of M cars but have decided against buying the latest gen G8x.

BMW has snubbed loyal BMW enthusiasts and marketing towards more mainstream buyers that apparently likes big grilles. The last time I recall this much push back against a new model BMW rollout was the E65 BMW 7 Series with the infamous Bangle Butt, and they eventually had to smooth out the butt with the LCI. We'll see what they do with the G8x LCI in a few years.

[frank70]

It would be so great to get less Joe Achilles....
I have watched some of his videos but it is just too much for me.
I really long back to pre-social media times where you just would get more professional reviews. I am so fed up with this fan-boy-style youtube channels where you get video after video with just utter nonsense.

[filostrato]

As expected... small performance gain in a larger, heavier platform
That F82 still looks damn sexy though

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by swagon

So what you're saying is the E46 is like a horse carriage to you then if the F8x is an old car by now and that track capabilities don't/shouldn't matter as much anymore?

Judging by your post and this forum, you're actually kind of right with the latter. Unfortunately.

No I didnt mean that. E46 was and still is a fantastic car but If I want to by an M3 I dont buy antyhing other than G80!
Not even E30 which is the signature of M3 IMO
I had more than enough seat time in E92/F80/F82 all Manual Transmission for years so respect M3/M4 cars but cant hide the fact that G8x is a great car because has today's technologies the same way I enjoy M8 over M6 regardless of DCT over ZF

[PeregrineFalcon]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have to assume those as are DCT and 8AT (thank you solstice ), which means it is a pointless comparison of engines because of the different gear ratios.

Doing the same with 6MT for the F8X and G8X would give the true story since both share the exact same gear ratios.

True, but that was my response to his claim:

Yes, G80 is fast (faster than the F80) and those times are legit, except that they're measured from full boost which in the real world scenario is not practical.

Even in the competition environment a lot of times are spent in boost buildup, for example kickdown, turn exit, hard brake and re-WOT & etc.

And since the both cars in the video (G82 and F82) had "automatic" transmissions I have used them for comparison.
If I remember correctly, the base G82 with the manual has worse in gear acceleration than the F82.
And the dyno also have shown that below some rev range (around 2500-3000 rpm if I remember correctly), the S55 has more torque.


Compared with the M440i with the same AT, the G82 has faster in gear acceleration in most of the gears.

G82

60 - 100 kph (4) 2.6 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 3.7 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 3.2 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.2 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 9.9 s

M440i

60 - 100 kph (4) 3.2 s
60 - 100 kph (5) 4.5 s
80 - 120 kph (5) 4.4 s
80 - 120 kph (6) 6.1 s
80 - 120 kph (7) 7.9 s

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

This time it's different. Many M enthusiast owners have owned many generations/versions of M cars but have decided against buying the latest gen G8x.

BMW has snubbed loyal BMW enthusiasts and marketing towards more mainstream buyers that apparently likes big grilles. The last time I recall this much push back against a new model BMW rollout was the E65 BMW 7 Series with the infamous Bangle Butt, and they eventually had to smooth out the butt with the LCI. We'll see what they do with the G8x LCI in a few years.

....and many have decided to buy the G8X. Many F8X or previous model owners are ditching their cars for the G8X.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....and many have decided to buy the G8X. Many F8X or previous model owners are ditching their cars for the G8X.

I still have my E46 M3 and have upgraded as the years have passed. Only difference is I started leasing because I realized how expensive in the long term these cars are. Not only that due to the mass production and low interest rates these high-performance cars depreciate pretty fast. Not like back in the days when a 4- year purchase agreement interest rate was like 12-14%.

I still love and enjoy the 3 series/M3/M4 driving experience for every generation. The competition with Mercedes and Audi just do not compare IMO to driving the M3/M4.

My point being is that yea we all have different opinions but in the end I believe each generation M3/M4 has been awesome and fun every time.

[Harroldv]

I own a 2018 F80 Comp and a considering back and forth swapping it for a new G80.

Yesterday I did a track day with the new G80 in Spa Francorchamps (Belgium) and I was very amazed at how the car handled on the track. Very planted, power and grip. It is an amazing car to track and more confidence inspiring than the F80 because of the grip and the chassis.

But today I took out my F80 from under it's wintercover and boy does that F80 look good. The interior is a little dated (2013ish) but love the real gauges instead of the digital ones.

I have no idea what I'll do in the future but the G80 definitely is a leap forward in terms of handling and interior. The car looks good in person and the big grill really grows on you. It's a bold design move from BMW but definitely identifying the new M3 to stand out.

I don't know what the future will bring but these cars with ICE engines are coming to and end, what will the M's be in the future?? Better to get these now and enjoy them while we can.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by frank70

It would be so great to get less Joe Achilles....
I have watched some of his videos but it is just too much for me.
I really long back to pre-social media times where you just would get more professional reviews. I am so fed up with this fan-boy-style youtube channels where you get video after video with just utter nonsense.

Professional reviews are still around. Steve Sutcliffe, Chris Harris...

[CosmosMpower]

Reason 101 to not buy a G80

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....and many have decided to buy the G8X. Many F8X or previous model owners are ditching their cars for the G8X.

Oh I'm sure you can find many but the portion is less than previous years. My point was the push back against the G8x (styling in particular) by BMW loyalists, including those I know not on any public forums, saying they will look elsewhere for their next car have been greater than in the past. I won't get much support here because I understand many of those have been banned from this G8x forum.

I, for one F80 owner, have been buying BMW's pretty well my whole driving life, will likely buck this trend for the first time in decades with my next car. I am far from alone, not trying to be negative but that's the way it is. BMW is betting they can more than make up for this loss by attracting new buyers, I suppose especially from China, to maintain their volume growth trend. I'm sure they've done their market research so maybe they are right, but I am still at a lost as to why BMW is alienating their base when it doesn't have to be this way.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

...I am still at a lost as to why BMW is alienating their base when it doesn't have to be this way.

I am their base too.

I’m ordering a xDrive G80 the millisecond I’m allowed to.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Oh I'm sure you can find many but the portion is less than previous years. My point was the push back against the G8x (styling in particular) by BMW loyalists, including those I know not on any public forums, saying they will look elsewhere for their next car have been greater than in the past. I won't get much support here because I understand many of those have been banned from this G8x forum.

I, for one F80 owner, have been buying BMW's pretty well my whole driving life, will likely buck this trend for the first time in decades with my next car. I am far from alone, not trying to be negative but that's the way it is. BMW is betting they can more than make up for this loss by attracting new buyers, I suppose especially from China, to maintain their volume growth trend. I'm sure they've done their market research so maybe they are right, but I am still at a lost as to why BMW is alienating their base when it doesn't have to be this way.

There is no way that you can quantify that. You aren't armed with enough information to do so, and three weeks of the car being available isn't sufficient. People are paying up to $20k mark-up on these G8X's here in SoCal.

...and who/what comprises the base you speak of? Many of us have owned multiple E46, E9X and F8X M-cars. Are we not the base, or are we only included if we champion the demise of the G8X?!? I see new buyers purchasing the G8X as well as tenured buyers. The base is the group that buys the cars, and that's never static. BMW always loses buyers every time a new ///M is released, but they also gain new membership. Many people ditched BMW as soon as the company went turbo, but many people came to the brand for that very reason.