[VIERsr]

It will never be enough for the haters. There will always be a faster car, but in its category it is by far the fastest. So far.
And it's surprisingly very close to some more track-oriented cars, obviously over a long distance (lap after lap) a lighter and track focused car like a GT4 will destroy a heavy and street-oriented car like the M4. As it has always been.

[Gizmo 335i]

The GT4 is more expensive and utterly useless as a commuter tool. Just go buy your Porsche and leave the rest of us alone.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Where is the evidence the G8x makes the f8x 'look downright slow'?

You asked for evidence. This thread is littered with it. Multiple drivers on multiple tracks with various tires.

The goal post seems to keep moving though.

[OSee]

Different tools for different purposes, I guess.

I'm probably not going to do a week's worth of grocery shopping in my GT4. Someone can check me on that of course.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

The GT4 is more expensive and utterly useless as a commuter tool. Just go buy your Porsche and leave the rest of us alone.

In this comparison the GT4 and M4 are the same price. Have you watched the video?

I take it you owned a GT4 and tried commuting in it? Curious to know what made it 'utterly useless'.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by OSee

You asked for evidence. This thread is littered with it. Multiple drivers on multiple tracks with various tires.

The goal post seems to keep moving though.

Some random websites with no supporting details or video are evidence? I guess the bar is very low these days.

The fact lap times beating the M4 GTS are posted as 'evidence' does not stand up to any logical scrutiny. The M4 GTS has almost equal HP, weighs 300lbs less, has 3 way adjustable KW clubsport suspension and adjustable aero (which means it can be dialed in for the specific circuit) and a proper gearbox. Assuming all else is equal (tires, driver, conditions) the G80 M3 will not be quicker.

[stevehifi]

i'd take the GT4 any day of the week. The m4 has become too expensive and fat for it's own good. It's no longer a purist car, more of a big HP GT (ie. M6, M8) and of course it lacks the sensory feedback (steering/brakes/suspension) of the Porsche.
Not surprised Jason wasn't very upbeat about it since it was a real chore to shovel the m4 around the track.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Some random websites with no supporting details or video are evidence? I guess the bar is very low these days.

The fact lap times beating the M4 GTS are posted as 'evidence' does not stand up to any logical scrutiny. The M4 GTS has almost equal HP, weighs 300lbs less, has 3 way adjustable KW clubsport suspension and adjustable aero (which means it can be dialed in for the specific circuit) and a proper gearbox. Assuming all else is equal (tires, driver, conditions) the G80 M3 will not be quicker.

It is instead
Not exactly a random website: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1815648

[PeregrineFalcon]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Some random websites with no supporting details or video are evidence? I guess the bar is very low these days.

The fact lap times beating the M4 GTS are posted as 'evidence' does not stand up to any logical scrutiny. The M4 GTS has almost equal HP, weighs 300lbs less, has 3 way adjustable KW clubsport suspension and adjustable aero (which means it can be dialed in for the specific circuit) and a proper gearbox. Assuming all else is equal (tires, driver, conditions) the G80 M3 will not be quicker.

For every track time we have presented to you, there was a detailed info from the people that have professionally tested the both cars. Info among other things also includes the tire type and the weight of both cars, and the difference is about 198-200lbs, not 300lbs.
Also, the people from the BMW have officially stated that the new car is faster than the GTS on Cup2"s!

You either don't like the car and have unconsciously blocked objective part of your brain responsible for accepting the facts (like some other people on the forum), or you were to lazy to go trough the forum to find out more about it?

[mirob]

Why are people always looking at the variables in terms of "well, if X had this then it would be closer or even with Y"? No shit - but it didn't. We are looking at the vehicles as they were released by the manufacturer. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

It is instead
Not exactly a random website: https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1815648

Ah finally some actual comparable data. Interesting result!

[Puuhapete]

Havent driven the Cayman but in general Porsches have become like surgical tools. They are very fast but not very much emotion. That I can say on all 992:s I have driven. Apart from the engine the Cayman seems to be built likely. I would choose the G80 every day of the week if these 2 cars were the options.
Surgical tooling is great in an EV like the Taycan but not so in 992:s. For me the Taycan is by far the best Porsche has to offer at the moment (GT3 or similar not in equation).
I hope I can get some track time in the G80 soon. Really looking forward to that.

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

Havent driven the Cayman but in general Porsches have become like surgical tools. They are very fast but not very much emotion. That I can say on all 992:s I have driven. Apart from the engine the Cayman seems to be built likely.

The GT4 is a very different animal than a base 992. The GT cars are to Porsche what the M cars are to BMW...except taken even further. There are no drive mode selectors or power-adjustable anything, and they've also stripped out the sound insulation and use things like spherical bearings in the suspension. And you hear and feel all of it: suspension clunk, induction noise, bit of gear whine...especially by contemporary standards, they're very charismatic.

So, you really can't extrapolate the experience you get from a standard 911 or Cayman to the GT equivalent any more than you can assume a 330i feels and drives just like an M3.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by akhbhaat

The GT4 is a very different animal than a base 992. The GT cars are to Porsche what the M cars are to BMW...except taken even further. There are no drive mode selectors or power-adjustable anything, and they've also stripped out the sound insulation and use things like spherical bearings in the suspension. And you hear and feel all of it: suspension clunk, induction noise, bit of gear whine...especially by contemporary standards, they're very charismatic.

So, you really can't extrapolate the experience you get from a standard 911 or Cayman to the GT equivalent any more than you can assume a 330i feels and drives just like an M3.

Might be, but I have driven two older Caymans. With the mid engine its a nice concept but wasn't thrilled by those. Neither was GT-model.

I have not driven a base 992, only S and TurboS. For me an F80CS is on a different planet emotions wise.

Comparing driving a 330i to M4 is a much bigger difference than 992 to GT4, kind of silly comparison imho. 992:s are still manufactured so that they are very track capable and should give you emotion.

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by Montaver

In this comparison the GT4 and M4 are the same price. Have you watched the video?

I take it you owned a GT4 and tried commuting in it? Curious to know what made it 'utterly useless'.

I didn't own one but my neighbor did and I drove it a few times. It didn't last long because it is a hardcore track machine. Loud all the time. Cramped all the time. Spine-crushing suspension all the time. Little cargo room. A 718 is easier to live with if you are OK with the small quarters. Of course a GT4 is excellent as a dedicated track car and most are used as such whereas Ms are more all-arounders.

I'm aware the list prices are close but can one get a GT4 without a markup? I don't know as I don't follow them.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

Havent driven the Cayman but in general Porsches have become like surgical tools. They are very fast but not very much emotion. That I can say on all 992:s I have driven. Apart from the engine the Cayman seems to be built likely. I would choose the G80 every day of the week if these 2 cars were the options.
Surgical tooling is great in an EV like the Taycan but not so in 992:s. For me the Taycan is by far the best Porsche has to offer at the moment (GT3 or similar not in equation).
I hope I can get some track time in the G80 soon. Really looking forward to that.

Surgical tools? Yes they’re precise, yes they’re as accurate as a sniper from 1500 ft away hitting a target dead on, but they do provide a level of emotion and satisfaction I don’t think many cars can match and they are driver’s car through and through. Just read the Motortrend 2020 Best Driver’s car where the Carrera S (again) won over a friend of very good cars. There’s also a reason why you cannot get a 911 of any variation right now for 4-6 months (or more in some cases). They’re just the hands down best all around car on the market. And to think that is only what is essentially the entry point of the 911 (which is also about 2 years old now). The GT4 has already, despite being held back by Porsche one of the best driving cars ever built and the 992 GT3 is already shaking up to be other worldly.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Surgical tools? Yes they’re precise, yes they’re as accurate as a sniper from 1500 ft away hitting a target dead on, but they do provide a level of emotion and satisfaction I don’t think many cars can match and they are driver’s car through and through. Just read the Motortrend 2020 Best Driver’s car where the Carrera S (again) won over a friend of very good cars. There’s also a reason why you cannot get a 911 of any variation right now for 4-6 months (or more in some cases). They’re just the hands down best all around car on the market. And to think that is only what is essentially the entry point of the 911 (which is also about 2 years old now). The GT4 has already, despite being held back by Porsche one of the best driving cars ever built and the 992 GT3 is already shaking up to be other worldly.

I disagree. F.ex. driving F80 CS is emotionswise at much higher level compared to any of the turbocharged 992:s. Also 911 sales are dropping like crazy, in our country it was last year only fourth of Porsche models. This year btw Taycan will be the most sold Porsche in our country. 911 will be a marginal model here very soon. People with a lot money buy the GT-models and they are of a different breed but also price wise not comparable to any BMW M-product.

911 Best all-around car on the market?, not even close:
-no space
-prices through the roof
-low emotion engines

I would choose a G80 Competition over any normal 992, not even in doubt. This time I though ordered another Porsche model. Looking forward for receiving the car in June.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

I disagree. F.ex. driving F80 CS is emotionswise at much higher level compared to any of the turbocharged 992:s. Also 911 sales are dropping like crazy, in our country it was last year only fourth of Porsche models. This year btw Taycan will be the most sold Porsche in our country. 911 will be a marginal model here very soon. People with a lot money buy the GT-models and they are of a different breed but also price wise not comparable to any BMW M-product.

911 Best all-around car on the market?, not even close:
-no space
-prices through the roof
-low emotion engines

I would choose a G80 Competition over any normal 992, not even in doubt. This time I though ordered another Porsche model. Looking forward for receiving the car in June.

I owned a 991.2 and also owned a CS and hands down the Porsche had levels of performance not even the M4 GTS could match or emotional and fun aspects so we disagree there without a doubt.
Porsche 911 sales are lower because they’re not producing cars. Values are way up though. I made money on my 991.2!! I do think they’re hands down the best all around mix of GT and Sports car. Not even a doubt in my mind. That’s not to say there aren’t other good cars but the 911 is the benchmark because it is the best. Just look now at what the 992 GT3 is doing. Barely more hp than the 991.2 GT3 yet runs 10.8 in the 1/4 for only 500 hp and under 7 mins on the Ring which no other manufacturer could come close to with only 500 hp.

[CanAutM3]

For me, the main takeaway is that the more practical M4 nearly matches the lap time of the track focused dedicated sports car at the same price point.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

For me, the main takeaway is that the more practical M4 nearly matches the lap time of the track focused dedicated sports car at the same price point.

I believe a Taycan in turbo form would beat them both and it’s a practical electric car with tires that aren’t up to snuff. With enough power, for one lap, an SUV has a chance of beating many sports cars and in some cases does. I believe the Panamera Turbo S just ran 7:29 on the Ring (same as the M4 GTS mind you) which is faster than many exotics or track day specials as previously mentioned but speed or lap time alone doesn’t qualify fun and what it’s like to drive a car.
At the same time, the Cayman GT4 is Porsche putting in about 50% effort with the car. There is so much more they could do but won’t. Plus, I’d love to see comparisons where they did 10/20/30 laps and see how the gap really accumulated. It wouldn’t look so close then...
Ultimately I only go to the track a couple times a year but want to not only lay down quick times but also have fun.
It’s great that there are performance oriented sedans, wagons, and SUVs so if a sports car isn’t e Pugh for you, there are great options. I personally love the idea of the new M3 with AWD but dislike the auto with a passion.

[snareman]

He has the euro aspherical mirrors. Hopefully those will be available for ordering at some point. Had them on my last car and they were nice.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Just look now at what the 992 GT3 is doing. Barely more hp than the 991.2 GT3 yet runs 10.8 in the 1/4 for only 500 hp and under 7 mins on the Ring which no other manufacturer could come close to with only 500 hp.

Why should I compare to a car which costs double in our country compared to G80/82? It better be good for that price. I have no doubt I would love the GT3, but normal 992:s including Turbo are low emotion cars for me, mostly because of engine and sound. And I am not alone in the camp. My friend in France had a 992 TurboS Cab that he considered it to be a dull car. Changed it to a Macan GTS, which he feels has more emotion. I think that really tells something.
992 is definitely not the benchmark for me. Taycan is the benchmark in EV:s, those are really something special.