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      03-20-2021, 07:02 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Not impressed.
The Carrera has 379 HP and 331 TQ ...of coarse the BMW will beat it.

Make it interesting, put a Carrera S up against the m4/m3
Wrong! I am very impressed.

Let's pretend for a second that the Porsche and the BMW Numbers are as advertised (Far from it!!!)

Basic Calculations will wield the gap between those two much closer than just the power figures given on paper.

M4 Comp: 1725Kg / 510hp = 3.3kg per HP
911: 1505kg / 385hp = 3.9kg per HP

(**M4 Manual: 1725kg / 473hp = 3.6kg per HP)

Bring the $$ argument and it becomes a No Contest!
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      03-21-2021, 02:59 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by EvenKeel View Post
Fine Dude. Hellcat SRT. Happy? You're missing the point and being a tool.
I think the problem is you have no point. A M3/M4 can do the fast in a straight line thing very well and still outperform it's rival Alfa, MB, and Audi offerings at the track. Maybe the most well rounded performance car today. The Hellcat is a one trick pony that does one thing well and doesn't make for much of a comparison.
You're right. I don't know what the f i'm talking about.
Correct.
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      03-22-2021, 01:44 AM   #135
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I would still take the beautiful 992, but that’s an impressive performance of the all mighty S58. I wonder if the base G87, that will have the S58 too, will be faster than a base 911 🙂
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      03-22-2021, 05:25 AM   #136
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Of course drag racing is some kind of indicator of the power of a car.
fair enough.

BUT:
Drag racing nowadays is just plain stupid. LC-->floor the throttle-->done

With automatic gearboxes etc it's just utterly stupid crap with no request to skill at all.

Altough I didn't like it before with Manuals, but at least you needed somehow a skill. now it's just meh, I could teach it my cat to do it...
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      03-22-2021, 08:50 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekMaverick View Post
Wrong! I am very impressed.

Let's pretend for a second that the Porsche and the BMW Numbers are as advertised (Far from it!!!)

Basic Calculations will wield the gap between those two much closer than just the power figures given on paper.

M4 Comp: 1725Kg / 510hp = 3.3kg per HP
911: 1505kg / 385hp = 3.9kg per HP

(**M4 Manual: 1725kg / 473hp = 3.6kg per HP)

Bring the $$ argument and it becomes a No Contest!
They just dyno'd a base m3 or m4 and it make 469 WHP, that's nearly 550 crank so in reality the M3/4 make about 170 more hp giving the M3 a significant power to weight advantage.

Drag racing is meaningless to me. How they drive is what I care about most, and the C2 wins in spades there. Plus I think the C2 will be the faster circuit car despite a whole lot of missing hp.

I've been a long time M fan before diving into Porsche ownership, but have a hard time enjoying the M cars after driving the Porsches. Porsche all around makes fantastic cars, the M cars IMO used to be better but still formidable cars. Anyone can make a fast car...the american autos have proven you can do that. The cohesive car Porsche makes, is hard to match by anyone. And BMW is lucky Porsche has not decided to play in the M3/4, C63/S, Cadi V, Alfa QV sandbox, because they'd dominate the segment.

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      03-22-2021, 10:15 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I've been a long time M fan before diving into Porsche ownership, but have a hard time enjoying the M cars after driving the Porsches. Porsche all around makes fantastic cars, the M cars IMO used to be better but still formidable cars.
That's interesting. After driving mine after a few days, I often can't wait to jump back in the M2C and vice versa. The M's have always had a raw, playful and frightful nature that is rarely if ever found in Porsche. They are precise and clinical in the experience they deliver.

There is room for both. Plenty of BMW owners who graduate to Porsche, plenty of Porsche owners who still have Ms in their stables.
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      03-23-2021, 08:26 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by CanuckM View Post
That's interesting. After driving mine after a few days, I often can't wait to jump back in the M2C and vice versa. The M's have always had a raw, playful and frightful nature that is rarely if ever found in Porsche. They are precise and clinical in the experience they deliver.

There is room for both. Plenty of BMW owners who graduate to Porsche, plenty of Porsche owners who still have Ms in their stables.
I can agree with this... compared to my previous F80 and my current M2, my 981 Cayman was a lot of fun, but a different kind of fun as compared to the M cars. The Cayman was clinical and precise but it wasn't as much of a hoonigan as the M2 is. With the Porsche, you drive it neatly and it rewards you, but the M2 is more playful and comfortable when getting a bit sideways. With that said, I would still like to get into a 911 at some point.
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      03-23-2021, 08:41 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckM View Post
That's interesting. After driving mine after a few days, I often can't wait to jump back in the M2C and vice versa. The M's have always had a raw, playful and frightful nature that is rarely if ever found in Porsche. They are precise and clinical in the experience they deliver.

There is room for both. Plenty of BMW owners who graduate to Porsche, plenty of Porsche owners who still have Ms in their stables.
I see you've got a C4S, which explains why you might feel that way.
I have a GT4 and no M car I've had or even the M2 CS (which I recently drove a friend's) feels as raw, connected, playful, and alive to me nor stirs emotions like the GT does - so I can't agree there. On top of that, it is precise in the way I've never known any M car to be either.
There's certainly room for both since Porsche in general are way more expensive and attract a different buyer all around for the most part.
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      03-23-2021, 08:55 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
They just dyno'd a base m3 or m4 and it make 469 WHP, that's nearly 550 crank so in reality the M3/4 make about 170 more hp giving the M3 a significant power to weight advantage.

Drag racing is meaningless to me. How they drive is what I care about most, and the C2 wins in spades there. Plus I think the C2 will be the faster circuit car despite a whole lot of missing hp.
Unless both cars are tested on the same dyno on the same day, it is pointless talking about hp diference other than factory numbers.
And they have actually tested the both cars at the circuit and the M4 was faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
I've been a long time M fan before diving into Porsche ownership, but have a hard time enjoying the M cars after driving the Porsches. Porsche all around makes fantastic cars, the M cars IMO used to be better but still formidable cars. Anyone can make a fast car...the american autos have proven you can do that. The cohesive car Porsche makes, is hard to match by anyone. And BMW is lucky Porsche has not decided to play in the M3/4, C63/S, Cadi V, Alfa QV sandbox, because they'd dominate the segment.
The only segment where we can compare apples to apples is M8GC against Porsche Panamera Turbo/S, and even if we compare the base M5 against it, it doesn't fare well for the Porsche.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

So to say that the Porsche would so easily dominate in the M3/4 segment for the same price point is little bit of a stretch
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      03-23-2021, 10:51 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
And BMW is lucky Porsche has not decided to play in the M3/4, C63/S, Cadi V, Alfa QV sandbox, because they'd dominate the segment.
Porsche wouldn't know the first thing about building a mid-sized sedan.
And absolutely no one wants a rebadged Audi RS4. Not at the volume that would be required to 'dominate' the segment anyway.
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      03-24-2021, 06:08 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Why are there Porsche owners in here justifying buying Porsche's?!? Do you not think that BMW drivers are aware? We know P car owners get a bit of anxiety at the track when M's run with and/or beat them. We don't need to be told how great higher end Porsche's are. We already know!!!
I attended a PCA track event once and purposefully left the kiddy seats in the back of my M4. I had so much fun spanking many of the P-cars on track to then have the owners come and ask me about my car after the session. Watching their face when they saw the kiddy seats in the back was priceless
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      03-24-2021, 08:18 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I attended a PCA track event once and purposefully left the kiddy seats in the back of my M4. I had so much fun spaking many of the P-cars on track to then have the owners come and ask me about my car after the session. Watching their face when they saw the kiddy seats in the back was priceless
Aren't you a pro level driver? I thought I read something about you racing competitively.

Track days are always such a YMMV. I have done laps faster at Monticello in a stock 992 BASE than a friend of mine could muster in an M3 with over 600 hp and slicks. He couldnt believe it.
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      03-24-2021, 08:50 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Aren't you a pro level driver? I thought I read something about you racing competitively.

Track days are always such a YMMV. I have done laps faster at Monticello in a stock 992 BASE than a friend of mine could muster in an M3 with over 600 hp and slicks. He couldnt believe it.
Nope, no pro driver here. Just a long time hobbyist.

It's been a while since we've seen our resident P-car diehard fanboy on these pages

Indeed, track days have huge variability due to driver skill, but it's still fun to spank proud P-car owners with a car that has kiddy seats in the back .

Even the base 992 is a great car, I agree. Last summer, I had the opportunity to drive a 992C4 on track for multiple sessions. How it was engaging to drive and how well connected it felt is what prompted me to order a 992turbo to replace my M4cs. But honestly, having driven both back to back, a base 992 does come close to matching the track performance of an F82, it is too underpowered (and to say that 379hp is underpowered ). I can't comment on the G8X since I haven't driven one on track yet.
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      03-24-2021, 09:02 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Nope, no pro driver here. Just a long time hobbyist.

It's been a while since we've seen our resident P-car diehard fanboy on these pages

Indeed, track days have huge variability due to driver skill, but it's still fun to spank proud P-car owners with a car that has kiddy seats in the back .

Even the base 992 is a great car, I agree. Last summer, I had the opportunity to drive a 992C4 on track for multiple sessions. How it was engaging to drive and how well connected it felt is what prompted me to order a 992turbo to replace my M4cs. But honestly, having driven both back to back, a base 992 does come close to matching the track performance of an F82, it is too underpowered (and to say that 379hp is underpowered ). I can't comment on the G8X since I haven't driven one on track yet.
Well, a base 992 is faster than a 991.2 base, in which taking driver level out, the 991.2 was faster than the M4 and in certain cases, very close to the M4 GTS despite being on a regular performance rubber and no a DOT Cup, such as on VIR which is a track that is good for high HP cars.
I do think its crazy how fast the car is with what is not considered today to be a lot of HP. I prefer the way a car drives vs just pure power, hence why I went to a GT4 which just delivers everything I want...and no turbos.
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      03-24-2021, 09:45 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post

Even the base 992 is a great car, I agree. Last summer, I had the opportunity to drive a 992C4 on track for multiple sessions. How it was engaging to drive and how well connected it felt is what prompted me to order a 992turbo to replace my M4cs.
Hell of a car. If all goes well, I'll be trading up for my own order of a MY22 Gentian Blue 992TT this summer. If you track often, maybe I will run into you at LCMT! I ran it twice last summer with the 4S and was smitten by how nice of a track it is. I should be there in July.
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      03-24-2021, 10:41 AM   #148
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Hell of a car. If all goes well, I'll be trading up for my own order of a MY22 Gentian Blue 992TT this summer. If you track often, maybe I will run into you at LCMT! I ran it twice last summer with the 4S and was smitten by how nice of a track it is. I should be there in July.
Congrats

In all honesty, I was really looking at getting into a 992C2S, but when I started reading all the fantastic reviews on the 992TT/TTS, I figured "why the hell not"

I mostly run with the BMW club and Club Virages, but I might also do a few events with PCA Rennsport once I get the new beast .
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      03-24-2021, 11:38 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Why are there Porsche owners in here justifying buying Porsche's?!? Do you not think that BMW drivers are aware? We know P car owners get a bit of anxiety at the track when M's run with and/or beat them. We don't need to be told how great higher end Porsche's are. We already know!!!
I attended a PCA track event once and purposefully left the kiddy seats in the back of my M4. I had so much fun spanking many of the P-cars on track to then have the owners come and ask me about my car after the session. Watching their face when they saw the kiddy seats in the back was priceless
Atta boy!!!! Lol!
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      03-24-2021, 11:56 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Congrats

In all honesty, I was really looking at getting into a 992C2S, but when I started reading all the fantastic reviews on the 992TT/TTS, I figured "why the hell not"

I mostly run with the BMW club and Club Virages, but I might also do a few events with PCA Rennsport once I get the new beast .
I am probably in the minority, but did not like the 992 TurboS. I liked much more the 2S I drove. I had zero connectivity with the Turbo. Way way more with a Taycan 4S which sound crazy but so it was for me. Apart from the insane speed the Turbo was meh for me. Would not change a M3 or M4 CS to a 992 Turbo even if I would not need the backseats. My friend sold his Turbo S cabriolet for a Macan GTS. Says its more fun to drive.
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      03-24-2021, 12:00 PM   #151
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I am probably in the minority, but did not like the 992 TurboS. I liked much more the 2S I drove. I had zero connectivity with the Turbo. Way way more with a Taycan 4S which sound crazy but so it was for me. Apart from the insane speed the Turbo was meh for me. Would not change a M3 or M4 CS to a 992 Turbo even if I would not need the backseats. My friend sold his Turbo S cabriolet for a Macan GTS. Says its more fun to drive.
Possibly. I have not driven a 992TT/TT-S yet, but the vast majority of reviews so far are unanimous about how they upped the driving experience with this generation turbo and were able to cook a lot of GT2/3 feel into the 992TT/TT-S driving experience, making it more engaging than the Carrera. So I still have my hopes up .
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      03-24-2021, 12:05 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Possibly. I have not driven a 992TT/TT-S yet, but the vast majority of reviews so far are unanimous about how they upped the driving experience with this generation turbo and were able to cook a lot of GT2/3 feel into the 992TT/TT-S driving experience, making it more engaging than the Carrera. So I still have my hopes up .
You have a perfect car, don't change it
I drove a M3 CS twice and it was top3 experience of any car I have myself driven. I hope to get to drive a 720S this summer, I sat in that car for about 10 laps. Was fun only sitting, so raw experience.
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      03-24-2021, 12:20 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Possibly. I have not driven a 992TT/TT-S yet, but the vast majority of reviews so far are unanimous about how they upped the driving experience with this generation turbo and were able to cook a lot of GT2/3 feel into the 992TT/TT-S driving experience, making it more engaging than the Carrera. So I still have my hopes up .
It's an incredible car to drive. You are going to be blown away at not only the levels of GT/luxury cruiser, but the way it can also switch gears (no pun intended) and rip like a GT3. I do not think there is a better dual purpose car ever built. Totally enamored with the 992 turbo/S.

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      03-24-2021, 05:45 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by GreekMaverick View Post
Wrong! I am very impressed.

Let's pretend for a second that the Porsche and the BMW Numbers are as advertised (Far from it!!!)

Basic Calculations will wield the gap between those two much closer than just the power figures given on paper.

M4 Comp: 1725Kg / 510hp = 3.3kg per HP
911: 1505kg / 385hp = 3.9kg per HP

(**M4 Manual: 1725kg / 473hp = 3.6kg per HP)

Bring the $$ argument and it becomes a No Contest!
This makes too much sense!
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