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      03-10-2021, 12:21 PM   #45
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Price has got to be a factor for many as well. I can float buying an optioned M4, but a base 911 isn't even on my radar. It's 1/3 more of the price!

The BMW might lose the head to head comparison, but you gotta give it points for value.
Still one of the best cars out there (if not the best) for value proposition price for performance. And manual still available?!
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      03-10-2021, 12:23 PM   #46
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Agreed. A hard comparison to make, but yes, 911 is not as practical as a DD should your lifestyle change unexpectedly. The "frunk" is relatively useless, although it suspends a pizza box perfectly! lol[IMG]undefined[/IMG]
That was last year. Phone attached it sideways for some reason.
Hahaha great picture, and unfortunately quite accurate....maybe small pizzas only from now on!
Yes! oh I forgot I had this one too. Should the wife borrow it for some unforeseen reason (lol) you can fit 8 or 9 plastic (conservatively filled) shopping bags...
So basically no 24 pack of water bottles, no family sized cereal boxes, etc. You'd have to stick to fruit, frozen veggies and gum.
No sir. Costco is completely of the question. You're confined to Trader Joe's or Wegmans!
Lol! Well at least you wouldn't spend too much because you'd have issues getting it home......


....unless you called your spouse with the M3/M4 to assist you.
Totally. Speaking of wives with M3 or M4s, mine is still open to trading her 2016 C450 AMG (MSport equivalent) sedan on a G80 AWD or an I4. She doesn't mind the grille as much as I do.

An M5C and a G80 AWD in the stable..eouldn't that be the cat's pyjamas?! Wishful thinking
That would be a lovely garage indeed. Ya know, I love the GT3......almost more than my own mother, but I am attached to BMW M's. I would be lying if I said I would be able to easily rid myself of the M. It just does so many things so well.
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      03-10-2021, 12:31 PM   #47
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As for comparison videos, if it’s between the M, Benz, Audi and or Lexus I don’t even watch them anymore, they are useless and a waste of time. The M will win and in reality the gap is even bigger so a comparison video to the 911 make a lot more sense.
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      03-10-2021, 12:41 PM   #48
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So I’m not alone struggling mightily with this decision. It sucks since if I don’t decide now between the added unknowns of the AWD and the known 992 we loose a summer with the 992 should it be our choice in the end. Decisions, decisions.

And at this point no outsider input will be of any help. It’s only me and my wife who can separate them for us and I think an AWD G82 test drive is a must before we can.
Have you considered the Porsche Sport Driving School in Birmingham?
(not to be confused w Porsche Experience, Atlanta..a much more simmered down 'consumer' version).

It's much better than the BMW M school (which i did 2x), and could be a good diversion that helps lead you to the right choice.
https://www.porschedriving.com/track-experience/courses

I've done the Porsche Advanced 2x and Masters once. As an F80 owner and M3 lover in general, its a really great way to gauge of whether or not you need a 911 or P car. You'll get to take a Turbo S on the track, Cayman GTS, 911s, in both manual and PDK, on one of the most beautiful tracks out there.

I found myself loving the Porsche cars... it's a whole new level, but also being 'proud' of my M car knowing that it can fly under the radar and give me somewhat close of an experience driving wise.

The class is not cheap... (5K for 2days) but worth it, if you factor in what you get and if it leads you to the right decision. 10k if you take the wife

I still have my f80 and will be in the same boat you are in shortly when i decide between another M or a 911. Having taken both M school and this, I have more data to make my choice, and will tell you it's still not easy.
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      03-10-2021, 12:47 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
Have you considered the Porsche Sport Driving School in Birmingham?
(not to be confused w Porsche Experience, Atlanta..a much more simmered down 'consumer' version).

It's much better than the BMW M school (which i did 2x), and could be a good diversion that helps lead you to the right choice.
https://www.porschedriving.com/track-experience/courses

I've done the Porsche Advanced 2x and Masters once. As an F80 owner and M3 lover in general, its a really great way to gauge of whether or not you need a 911 or P car. You'll get to take a Turbo S on the track, Cayman GTS, 911s, in both manual and PDK, on one of the most beautiful tracks out there.

I found myself loving the Porsche cars... it's a whole new level, but also being 'proud' of my M car knowing that it can fly under the radar and give me somewhat close of an experience driving wise.

The class is not cheap... (5K for 2days) but worth it, if you factor in what you get and if it leads you to the right decision. 10k if you take the wife

I still have my f80 and will be in the same boat you are in shortly when i decide between another M or a 911. Having taken both M school and this, I have more data to make my choice, and will tell you it's still not easy.
That’s a good tip! However the remaining question is not how good the 992 is...it’s all about how good the M4 is. I want it to be good enough to win overall for our specific use but at this stage I just can’t say.

If I go to that Porsche track school, forget about it. It’s over
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      03-10-2021, 01:00 PM   #50
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That’s a good tip! However the remaining question is not how good the 992 is...it’s all about how good the M4 is. I want it to be good enough to win overall for our specific use but at this stage I just can’t say.

If I go to that Porsche track school, forget about it. It’s over
Ha...yeah.. i get it for sure.. it's def over if you go to Porsche school.., but even having done it 3x, I still am as confused as you are. I have driven the 992 at the track (they had it at Masters class last year which was last time I went right before Covid shut down the world). It's fantastic, you just can't believe how they keep improving it.

That being said, once i get home and into my M car i appreciate the versatility it offers, Your situation is a bit hard since you want the M4, so you can't use versatility (as much) as a deciding point. For me I still kinda need a sedan.

But the cost diff alone is big ...everytime i price out a 911 w cool stuff its well into 6 figures...
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      03-10-2021, 03:50 PM   #51
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I would say 90% of the people comparing an M4 and a 911 don't know what they want and need to decide first. That might be test driving both, but I always found the head-to-head reviews to be a bit weird.
Same here.......at least from a "consider this one or that one" perspective. The 911 is useless for anything utilitarian.
Happened with the F87 CS and 718 GT4 as well. It's a comparison that won't go away. The reality is both G82/992 cars have 70% in common and 30% very different. Depending on where your requirements sit on their broad spectrum you can go either way.
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      03-10-2021, 07:50 PM   #52
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I would say 90% of the people comparing an M4 and a 911 don't know what they want and need to decide first. That might be test driving both, but I always found the head-to-head reviews to be a bit weird.
I agree with your first point there 100%.
If you truly are buying the M3/M4 for true daily duties such as kid hauling, grocery getting and canyon carving. I'd recommend M3/M4.

I'd assume most of you here are enthusiasts with kids and daily duties and that is solved by the duality of the M3/M4 and honestly there isn't a better choice.

But if you are doing just fun Sunday cruises with buddies, canyon carving, and anything else NOT revolving around chores, must-do's, etc. Aka you have a grocery getter/SUV/daily driver, don't waste your money on an ///M. Get a used GT4 (best bang for buck), stretch your coin a bit and get a 718 GT4, or a new 911 and experience true driving thrill since these M's are nearing 90k now with options (AND WITHOUT CARBON BRAKES).

This is coming from a guy who has gone through a LOT of cars recently ranging from M4 to a Huracan EVO in the last 2 years.

There is something dull about these M cars now after experiencing true fun cars.

Last edited by GhostyM; 03-10-2021 at 07:59 PM..
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      03-10-2021, 09:32 PM   #53
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Who really wants a base 911? Two seats and you can't be that happy that you settled for the cheapest variant in a family.
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      03-10-2021, 09:39 PM   #54
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The senior writer for Car Magazine (rather than the work experience kid they use on their You Tube channel) came to a rather different verdict when comparing to the 911 C2S.

Well worth reading the article in the latest Car Magazine. Brilliantly written by one of the best in the business and far more informed.
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      03-11-2021, 01:30 AM   #55
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yeah these are pointless

how can you compare a car that starts at $70,000 to one that starts at $99,000???

Lets also compare a 330i to a M3 while we are at it, same price gap
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      03-11-2021, 02:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Davil View Post
The senior writer for Car Magazine (rather than the work experience kid they use on their You Tube channel) came to a rather different verdict when comparing to the 911 C2S.

Well worth reading the article in the latest Car Magazine. Brilliantly written by one of the best in the business and far more informed.
Well that's impressive!
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      03-11-2021, 06:11 AM   #57
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Likely because they both appeal strongly to the same crowd. It’s a give and take situation in what you are willing to sacrifice for us that do need to sacrifice at one end.
This. I cross-shop these two cars and have owned both. Most peoples car needs are not as rigid as people think. Rear seats usable for adults are a "nice-to-have" for me as we have a 2nd car. I choose between the two based on relative appeal.

A slightly used 911 is comparable in cost-to-own as an M3/4 based on depreciation. In fact, my 991.1 C2S cost me half as much as my F80 including maintenance.

BMW M's move to abandon special components (DCT, bespoke engines) generally makes M cars less appealing to me. However, reviews do seem positive which is great. I'll have to test drive one.
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      03-11-2021, 11:24 AM   #58
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yeah these are pointless

how can you compare a car that starts at $70,000 to one that starts at $99,000???

Lets also compare a 330i to a M3 while we are at it, same price gap
Did you not watch the video?
The two cars are in the SAME price range in the UK. That's why they are featured together in a UK video. Whilst some might argue they are different tools for different purposes, they are in the same class price wise....(he even says that the Porsche is actually cheaper as tested). A valid comparison in my view. By the way, a Porsche 718 GT4 is actually cheaper, list, than a RWD M4 Competition.

What they don't say is that you'd be Freud crazy to pay full list for an M car here in the UK. 10 to even 20% discount has historically been the norm on an M car, whereas Porsche generally don't do discounts. This adds a price differential not seen when comparing RRP, which is the bone I'd be picking in this comparo. But price paid is only one part of the sums, a factor about ownership on these two cars, a BMW M car is a depreciation bloodbath in comparison to a Porsche (certainly true in the UK). Therefore a cash buyer would probably find the ownership costs less in the Porsche ( maintenance aside) despite a higher purchase price.
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      03-11-2021, 11:51 AM   #59
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I still own a BMW product - a mini Kids X5. It's electric.

Yes Porsche is better, way better, even a base model is better than an M4.

What is funny is they compared an M2 to a Macan on laps LOL... Goes to show you. Also I got rid of my crappy M2 and traded for a Macan, believe me what an upgrade in handling, braking, comfort and pretty much everything. Real test was never looked back at the M2 and when I did I felt this.

My previous F80 M3 Comp was quick, looked ok, but left lots to be desired for. The Cayenne that replaced it, is better in every way to live with. Handling is different story though. It's an SUV, but I look back at it and love it. Even photographs better.

The 911 coming certainly will be magical in terms of comparison. My dilemma is really between a going hard GT3 or Turbo or GTS. First world problems, but once you go that route you will understand.

Still I love the interior of the new M4.
Is this some kind of trolling?? Macan better than M2 in driving dynamics, not in this world. And Cayenne is one of the worst cars I ever have driven in driving dynamics, how can anybody compare that tank to an F80?

I like my wifes X1 hybrid more than a standard Macan, it really is nicer to drive. Not everything Porsche does is great. My brother in law has a hybrid Panamera and it is nice but boy does it feel big when driving it. Not Cayenne big which is something in its own class.

For me Porsche has some great models, the 911, Taycan and Cayman/ Boxster but the other 3 models, no thanks, never. Outrageous prices for base models that don't even feel special at all.

Last edited by Puuhapete; 03-11-2021 at 12:02 PM..
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      03-11-2021, 01:10 PM   #60
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We went X5 to Cayenne S to Macan GTS to X3 M40. Basically got better driving dynamics each time. The X3 is about the same as the GTS but has more room which is why we made the change. Porsche in general has better driving dynamics within each class they have vehicles.
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      03-11-2021, 01:51 PM   #61
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We went X5 to Cayenne S to Macan GTS to X3 M40. Basically got better driving dynamics each time. The X3 is about the same as the GTS but has more room which is why we made the change. Porsche in general has better driving dynamics within each class they have vehicles.
On the bolded one I agree with reservations. As I said our X1 has better dynamics imho than a base Macan. You went from Macan GTS to X3 which proves also BMW is on the same line with a cheaper car. I have actually never driven an X5 but if its anything like a Cayenne I neither would like to.
Your car changes seem sensible, though in the end you went to a slightly bigger car?
I have nothing against Porsche, in contrary. My next car is going to be a Taycan 4s, which should arrive mid June
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      03-11-2021, 03:59 PM   #62
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Likely because they both appeal strongly to the same crowd. It’s a give and take situation in what you are willing to sacrifice for us that do need to sacrifice at one end.
This. I cross-shop these two cars and have owned both. Most peoples car needs are not as rigid as people think. Rear seats usable for adults are a "nice-to-have" for me as we have a 2nd car. I choose between the two based on relative appeal.

A slightly used 911 is comparable in cost-to-own as an M3/4 based on depreciation. In fact, my 991.1 C2S cost me half as much as my F80 including maintenance.

BMW M's move to abandon special components (DCT, bespoke engines) generally makes M cars less appealing to me. However, reviews do seem positive which is great. I'll have to test drive one.
Ehhh I disagree. I think most people's needs are pretty rigid, hence why there aren't that many two-seaters on the road relative to cars that seat 4-5 people. Most who have a two-seater also have a car that can seat a small family. For the self proclaimed "die-hard" enthusiast(s), there's less rigidity. We are the minority.
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      03-11-2021, 04:00 PM   #63
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On the bolded one I agree with reservations. As I said our X1 has better dynamics imho than a base Macan. You went from Macan GTS to X3 which proves also BMW is on the same line with a cheaper car. I have actually never driven an X5 but if its anything like a Cayenne I neither would like to.
Your car changes seem sensible, though in the end you went to a slightly bigger car?
I have nothing against Porsche, in contrary. My next car is going to be a Taycan 4s, which should arrive mid June
Yes we went to a slightly bigger car for hauling dancer gear. Wife wanted an interior change as well so she decided against another Cayenne although she loved the first one. Still have a 911S cab for the Porsche fix.
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      03-12-2021, 12:49 PM   #64
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But if you are doing just fun Sunday cruises with buddies, canyon carving, and anything else NOT revolving around chores, must-do's, etc. Aka you have a grocery getter/SUV/daily driver, don't waste your money on an ///M. Get a used GT4 (best bang for buck), stretch your coin a bit and get a 718 GT4, or a new 911 and experience true driving thrill since these M's are nearing 90k now with options (AND WITHOUT CARBON BRAKES).

This is coming from a guy who has gone through a LOT of cars recently ranging from M4 to a Huracan EVO in the last 2 years.

There is something dull about these M cars now after experiencing true fun cars.
+1

Because I live in a major city where parking is neither easy nor free, I've long been attracted to the idea of one car that can do everything, and I've been through a bunch of M cars trying to find it. But my perspective has evolved from "one car that can do everything kinda well" to "one car that doesn't do anything well enough."

Eventually I bit the bullet and went to a multi-car quiver: a "fun enough" daily and a real, hard-edged, purpose-built sports/track car. Honestly, switching between them makes me appreciate them each for what they are even more. I've also come to think that the best of BMW wasn't found in the M cars, but the top trim levels of the bread-and-butter large volume sport sedans: cars like the E39 540i6 M-sport or E46 330i ZHP. These weren't rocketship fast even by the (much lower) standards of their own day, but they didn't need to be; the enjoyment came from control feel and exploring the limits of a street friendly performance envelope. But they don't really make cars like that anymore (nobody does).
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      03-12-2021, 05:15 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
So I'm not alone struggling mightily with this decision. It sucks since if I don't decide now between the added unknowns of the AWD and the known 992 we loose a summer with the 992 should it be our choice in the end. Decisions, decisions.

And at this point no outsider input will be of any help. It's only me and my wife who can separate them for us and I think an AWD G82 test drive is a must before we can.
If the base 911 Carrera is on your list it's a no brainer imo.
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      03-12-2021, 05:53 PM   #66
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I'm with you on the aesthetics thing. Lower end 911's don't do anything for me. The GT cars are the cat's meow.
That's why you gotta mod them. /shameless plug
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