[AHall]

Isn't max torque for these cars around 5500 rpm for the competition and 6,100 rpm for base model? So if you exceed this on your way to red line which is 7,200 rpm, should you not experience a decrease in torque?

[Salespunk]

Those hard shifts in the DCT were more for show than anything else. At the limits the smoother shifts of the ZF will keep the car more composed. The DCT was more engaging and gave the cars some additional personality, but for the majority of auto transmission buyers the ZF is the better choice. In daily traffic and around town it is much smoother and more comfortable.

There is a noticeable lag when shifting the ZF manually vs the DCT. It is not that the shifts are slow, it is a gap from pulling the shift paddle and the ZF actually shifting. Your brain adapts to it pretty quickly, but it is definitely there.

I am not saying either is right or wrong, I have owned M cars with both setups and they each have their pluses and minuses.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by solstice

Of all the complaints of the G8X this is the only one I personally fully understand. If you can’t drive or you don’t want an MT and love the DCT an AT is no substitute. Just as I never even contemplated buying anything but an MT, I would have passed on any car even exotics if they had AT I understand the disappointment. My advice would be to just pass on this generation if MT isn’t your thing and you despise AT.

I learnt to appreciate today’s AT and don’t see it as much of a downgrade if any over the old M-DCT.

You know I'm staunchly team DCT... but if I was just going to throw the car in Auto Mode, go on casual spirited drives, and enjoy the car as a hot-rodded daily/cruiser, then I would 10/10 times go with the ZF. I think the loss of DCT sucks in principle more than it will in practice for most people. To me, DCT is best when you shift it yourself, even in times when you wouldn't think to otherwise. So for those people, I agree ZF might not tickle their fancy. Heck, the only times I occasionally don't drive DCT manually are: 1. on dates, and 2. in bumper to bumper Bay Area rush hour traffic.

Personally I love the theatrics and the mindset it puts you in though, so I'll hold on to my two clutches until they burn out... then I'll have to burn a $3k+ hole in my wallet to replace them

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by DPHTOY

It is almost like it also dials back the torque right before the shift.

ZF (and other planetary autos) have to do this by function of their design. Their clutches can't slam gears like DCT clutches can, so there's some level of slip and/or torque reduction that is needed. Not dissimilar to letting off the gas when clutching in at WOT in a manual vs a DCT which is powershifting

[scoale]

Originally Posted by solstice

Of all the complaints of the G8X this is the only one I personally fully understand. If you can’t drive or you don’t want an MT and love the DCT an AT is no substitute. Just as I never even contemplated buying anything but an MT, I would have passed on any car even exotics if they had AT I understand the disappointment. My advice would be to just pass on this generation if MT isn’t your thing and you despise AT.

I learnt to appreciate today’s AT and don’t see it as much of a downgrade if any over the old M-DCT.

Good post. First, and foremost, by all accounts, BMW has done a great job with this car.

The AT transmissions may be a bit of a disappointment in some respects versus DCT, but boy have AT transmissions come a loooooooong way. And, again, for the target audience, I think most will actually prefer the AT to the DCT because they will be willing to accept a bit less engagement for reduced NVH. An AT also seems more of a fit for a car of this size.

The cars size would probably be my biggest complaint. That said, it is probably appropriately sized for the target market - and there is the M2 for folks like me that want something a bit smaller. I'm also not a fan of more weight but BMW seems to have done a masterful job of minimizing impact.

[M3PGH]

just drove the G80 M3 today and last week drove the M4 MT
I have an M3CS which I drove to dealer
I loved the G80
to me the ZF transmission is very good
yes the DCT feels snappier , but overall the G80 is a better car

[sensi09]

Originally Posted by solstice

Of all the complaints of the G8X this is the only one I personally fully understand. If you can’t drive or you don’t want an MT and love the DCT an AT is no substitute. Just as I never even contemplated buying anything but an MT, I would have passed on any car even exotics if they had AT I understand the disappointment. My advice would be to just pass on this generation if MT isn’t your thing and you despise AT.

I learnt to appreciate today’s AT and don’t see it as much of a downgrade if any over the old M-DCT.

You say AT is no substitute for DCT, but end with saying you don't think AT is a downgrade to DCT?

[solstice]

Originally Posted by sensi09

You say AT is no substitute for DCT, but end with saying you don't think AT is a downgrade to DCT?

I say if you love DCT and further down added despise AT.
Personally I don’t love the M-DCT and I don’t despise the modern ATs. I like both of different reasons. So my comment on passing on the car was for those who have driven it and feel like the OP that it’s a major downgrade. I don’t think that feeling will disappear cause they really do feel different. It never did for me vs MT as long as I despised AT. Everytime I drove an AT I couldn’t wait to get back into an MT, the AT totally removed me from the driving experience, feel of the car and precise control. Not anymore with modern ATs, they are more than acceptable.

That said I will go AT this time and I will miss the MT but not a DCT.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by solstice

I say if you love DCT and further down added despise AT.
Personally I don't love the M-DCT and I don't despise the modern ATs. I like both of different reasons. So my comment on passing on the car was for those who have driven it and feel like the OP that it's a major downgrade. I don't think that feeling will disappear cause they really do feel different. It never did for me vs MT as long as I despised AT. Everytime I drove an AT I couldn't wait to get back into an MT, the AT totally removed me from the driving experience, feel of the car and precise control. Not anymore with modern ATs, they are more than acceptable.

That said I will go AT this time and I will miss the MT but not a DCT.

For everyone saying get the MT it's just not something I am into on a big, heavy luxury car like the g80 that will mainly used as my daily. Every car before my e92 was 6mt and were great but for how I will use the car the MT isn't even an option. If this car was a cayman yeah I would get the 6mt.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by Serious

For everyone saying get the MT it's just not something I am into on a big, heavy luxury car like the g80 that will mainly used as my daily. Every car before my e92 was 6mt and were great but for how I will use the car the MT isn't even an option. If this car was a cayman yeah I would get the 6mt.

Agree, AT seems better fit for a car this size. Cool that BMW is offering manual for those that want it though.

[killhour]

Maybe it's just the way BMW manuals feel, but I really didn't like the manual in the G82 I test drove. The throw was long and mushy and the clutch had basically no feel - I kept making jerky shifts even with the rev matching on because I couldn't feel the bite point start to engage and kept the clutch slipping too long. I'm sure I would get used to it and it would be fine after a few days, but it was more distracting than engaging. Glad I'm going with the competition.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by killhour

Maybe it's just the way BMW manuals feel, but I really didn't like the manual in the G82 I test drove. The throw was long and mushy and the clutch had basically no feel - I kept making jerky shifts even with the rev matching on because I couldn't feel the bite point start to engage and kept the clutch slipping too long. I'm sure I would get used to it and it would be fine after a few days, but it was more distracting than engaging. Glad I'm going with the competition.

BMW MTs always had their own feel like most MT brands do. You quickly get used to it and then at least I start appreciating them. They are robust and reliable and never feel sloppy as lesser brands usually do. The long/high clutch engagement is usually what throw people off at first since not many other brands have it. It’s really not an issue though once muscle memory programs it. The F80 has a great MT and the car is by no means to big. It’s more the character of the car than size that matters IMO.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Serious

For everyone saying get the MT it's just not something I am into on a big, heavy luxury car like the g80 that will mainly used as my daily. Every car before my e92 was 6mt and were great but for how I will use the car the MT isn't even an option. If this car was a cayman yeah I would get the 6mt.

While I don’t agree it’s totally understandable, we like what we like and want what we want as individuals. If AT and MT isn’t for you it’s a disappointment for sure and as I said I don’t think it will go away so maybe be cautious about this one.

[Jimjamz]

It will be interesting to compare the ZF8 and PDK. Though I understand that PDK is not offered in the electric porsches like the cross turismo. If that's the case, ZF8 may be the eventual winner in the transmission stakes. For now though, I much prefer the DCT in my F87 CS to the ZF8 in my G02 M40i.

[jmciver]

Even though the G8x is new so aftermarket tuners have not had much time with the car yet, but shouldn't transmission software updates address many of the concerns being mentioned regarding the AT? I don't own an F80 DCT car (I have a F80 6MT), but from what I have read on the forums, transmission software upgrades on the F8x DCT cars did improve performance. So if the AT concerns people are mentioning now resonate loud enough, maybe BMW will tweak the transmission software for the M-Cars to help get back some of that DCT like feel/performance. And of course there always is the aftermarket AT tuning options once available.

[somer]

Test drove the G80 M3 today, ZF still a HUGE let down, came away from the test drive incredibly conflicted. Love the way the car drives, the power for a 6cyl is good, interior/tech are great, steering is the best electric BMW has done to date. Get back in my F10 and just wonder if we just paired this transmission in that car we really would have had something.

I've bemoaned on these forums for years about transmissions and really thought I'd eat my words one of these days and get the ZF in either the F90 or the G80 but just don't think I can do it. Should probably just drive a 6MT and decide from there.

[Kminor2578]

I couldn't agree more about the ZF replacing the DTC. Its the only negative thing I have to say about the cars performance. But the ZF is pretty much bullet proof. I do think they didn't a better job tuning the AT for the G80 then then they did for F90 comp.

[Salespunk]

Originally Posted by killhour

Maybe it's just the way BMW manuals feel, but I really didn't like the manual in the G82 I test drove. The throw was long and mushy and the clutch had basically no feel - I kept making jerky shifts even with the rev matching on because I couldn't feel the bite point start to engage and kept the clutch slipping too long. I'm sure I would get used to it and it would be fine after a few days, but it was more distracting than engaging. Glad I'm going with the competition.

If you are coming from a Honda or Porsche manual, BMW's implementation could be disappointing for sure. Compared to others out there it is decent though.

[killhour]

Originally Posted by Salespunk

If you are coming from a Honda or Porsche manual, BMW's implementation could be disappointing for sure. Compared to others out there it is decent though.

Ford Focus RS.

[My8thMandcounting]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

You know I'm staunchly team DCT... but if I was just going to throw the car in Auto Mode, go on casual spirited drives, and enjoy the car as a hot-rodded daily/cruiser, then I would 10/10 times go with the ZF. I think the loss of DCT sucks in principle more than it will in practice for most people. To me, DCT is best when you shift it yourself, even in times when you wouldn't think to otherwise. So for those people, I agree ZF might not tickle their fancy. Heck, the only times I occasionally don't drive DCT manually are: 1. on dates, and 2. in bumper to bumper Bay Area rush hour traffic.

Personally I love the theatrics and the mindset it puts you in though, so I'll hold on to my two clutches until they burn out... then I'll have to burn a $3k+ hole in my wallet to replace them

I largely agree with this. Having driven the G80 for a week now, I definitely miss the DCT. I generally drove in "manual" mode with the DCT because I love a MT, but hate having to deal with a clutch in city traffic. I found the DCT to be a very good compromise on control of the shift.

That said, in the G80, I have been more frequently driving it as a regular automatic. I find the self shifting a bit jerky compared to the DCT - that might just be adjusting to the feel of the car and the sound of the engine which is very different from the F80. However, I also find this AT much better than the AT in the F80. I never really liked the F80 DCT in auto mode. The G80 seems more responsive in the auto mode and also seems to more aggressively downshift than the F80 did.

[Murf]

It's only a matter of time before XHP releases a flash for the G80/82 comps. $300 tune drastically changes the shifting characteristics of my M235i. You can make shift speeds much faster and brutal if you want along with tons of other customizations.

https://www.xhpflashtool.com/

[somer]

Originally Posted by Murf

It's only a matter of time before XHP releases a flash for the G80/82 comps. $300 tune drastically changes the shifting characteristics of my M235i. You can make shift speeds much faster and brutal if you want along with tons of other customizations.

https://www.xhpflashtool.com/

Shift speeds really aren't the problem it's the paddle delay and momentary torque lapse that the ZF has.