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      12-29-2020, 03:16 PM   #1
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AWD G80 alternatives

Hey folks,

I currently own a 2018 M2 and I have specific needs due to changes in my life situation, here is a little resumay:

we currently have 3 cars but are expecting our first child next summer and we plan to get rid of my wife's old Honda civic for safety concern while transporting our future children. She will be using my daily Q5 when needed and I'll switch between "the sportier" car when needed on a daily basis. We also have 2x 55lbs Husky Dogs but will not transport them in that car.

Now here is were it gets more complicated, the M2 is more of a weekend car since I store it in the winter and do around 8-10 track days per summer with it. It's got a Ohlins suspension, AP big brake kit, 18 inch Apex wheels with track day tires, Quick fit pro harness and misc stuff..

So let's list the needs

- Good daily driver
- Great track day car
- Ok/Good family hauler (4 doors)
- AWD (Serious winter here)

In a perfect world M3 wagon would allow to get the dogs in there too but BMW seems dertimined to deny us that pleasure..

Another possiblity is putting winter tires on the M2 witch is not totally out of the question and saves a lot of $..

So any directions or advice is welcome, I think this thread could be a nice discussion for track enthusiasts looking for the sort of do it all car because they are at a point in there life were they don't want to have a track only car on the side or there track days are less than before.
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      12-29-2020, 03:25 PM   #2
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Keeping on the G80 new price budget I am not against pricier MSRP used cars like a F90 or M8 Comp, I'm just not sure about the track day part with these cars, anyone who did some track days with heavier AWD cars can shim in ?
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      12-29-2020, 04:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Keeping on the G80 new price budget I am not against pricier MSRP used cars like a F90 or M8 Comp, I'm just not sure about the track day part with these cars, anyone who did some track days with heavier AWD cars can shim in ?
Your countryman CanAutM3 decided that a 992 Turbo is a better choice as a dual purpose car that can also haul smallish children. Not sure I agree but there you go. Just the little problem that you’ll need to wait a while (10 years or so) before it can be had at used M8 prices though...

Maybe a lightly used 992 C4 is an acceptable car...
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      12-29-2020, 04:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Keeping on the G80 new price budget I am not against pricier MSRP used cars like a F90 or M8 Comp, I'm just not sure about the track day part with these cars, anyone who did some track days with heavier AWD cars can shim in ?
Your countryman CanAutM3 decided that a 992 Turbo is a better choice as a dual purpose car that can also haul smallish children. Not sure I agree but there you go. Just the little problem that you'll need to wait a while (10 years or so) before it can be had at used M8 prices though...

Maybe a lightly used 992 C4 is an acceptable car...
I've been following some of he's post, I really need to test drive the P cars, I figure toddlers that handle themselves are easier than newborns with the seat and stuff in a 2 door.

used 991.2 with low mileage are starting to creep down around the 100k cad mark..
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      12-29-2020, 04:51 PM   #5
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I've been following some of he's post, I really need to test drive the P cars, I figure toddlers that handle themselves are easier than newborns with the seat and stuff in a 2 door.

used 991.2 with low mileage are starting to creep down around the 100k cad mark..
You should, I drove a base 992 C4 a few months back and can’t get it out my head. Lovely car and if I had small/tiny kids I’d likely get one. Maybe 4S if you are going to track where the power bump should hold back the track mantra of “never enough power” a bit longer...

As it goes I have a pre-teen that is 5ft6 and a teen well over that...makes it a cumbersome equation that not even the venerable 911 can overcome...I think...for now...not closed yet.
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      12-29-2020, 05:03 PM   #6
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At the other end of the spectrum of alternatives you have the soon to be revealed M5CS. I’m lusting after it from what is released today in terms of specifications and looks. Would be perfect for my family.

Now, the price I’m sure will be nothing perfect about and I highly doubt it will meet the F8X CS faith of sitting on the lot with resulting big price drops.
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      12-29-2020, 05:19 PM   #7
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At the other end of the spectrum of alternatives you have the soon to be revealed M5CS. I'm lusting after it from what is released today in terms of specifications and looks. Would be perfect for my family.

Now, the price I'm sure will be nothing perfect about and I highly doubt it will meet the F8X CS faith of sitting on the lot with resulting big price drops.
I saw it too, what I find confusing is the weight vs G80 M3 AWD.. I mean physics are what they are, you can cheat on em to a certain extent.

Weight is also one of the reasons why we are always talking about Porsche
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      12-29-2020, 05:53 PM   #8
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I saw it too, what I find confusing is the weight vs G80 M3 AWD.. I mean physics are what they are, you can cheat on em to a certain extent.

Weight is also one of the reasons why we are always talking about Porsche
True and if you are going to track more than a few days the M5 just isn’t the right car even if it has a CS badge on it.
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      12-29-2020, 07:28 PM   #9
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I'm in a similar predicament and will be considering an AWD M3, X3M or RS5 middle to end of next year. Currently in a M2 as my daily driver and have Michelin PA4's on it in the winter. I usually roll up to the ski resort and am the only RWD vehicle in the entire parking lot.

I should note that I recently test drove a launch edition of the 2021 RS5 sportback and it was beautiful but it doesn't evoke quite the same emotion as the M2. Very practical with the hatchback though!
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      12-29-2020, 08:13 PM   #10
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I'm in a similar predicament and will be considering an AWD M3, X3M or RS5 middle to end of next year. Currently in a M2 as my daily driver and have Michelin PA4's on it in the winter. I usually roll up to the ski resort and am the only RWD vehicle in the entire parking lot.

I should note that I recently test drove a launch edition of the 2021 RS5 sportback and it was beautiful but it doesn't evoke quite the same emotion as the M2. Very practical with the hatchback though!
At an Audi event I test drove RS3, TTRS, RS5 Sportback and R8 V10 Spyder and the RS5 was the one I liked the most. I felt that If I'd have to drive only one car it would something similar to this.

My only gripe with the Audi is its driving dynamics on track but seeing what BMW is doing with the G m series there could be less différence than in the past.

I'm really impatient to test drive the new M3 !
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      12-29-2020, 08:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAMackAttack View Post
I'm in a similar predicament and will be considering an AWD M3, X3M or RS5 middle to end of next year. Currently in a M2 as my daily driver and have Michelin PA4's on it in the winter. I usually roll up to the ski resort and am the only RWD vehicle in the entire parking lot.

I should note that I recently test drove a launch edition of the 2021 RS5 sportback and it was beautiful but it doesn't evoke quite the same emotion as the M2. Very practical with the hatchback though!
At an Audi event I test drove RS3, TTRS, RS5 Sportback and R8 V10 Spyder and the RS5 was the one I liked the most. I felt that If I'd have to drive only one car it would something similar to this.

My only gripe with the Audi is its driving dynamics on track but seeing what BMW is doing with the G m series there could be less différence than in the past.

I'm really impatient to test drive the new M3 !
Same — I can't wait to see driving impressions and/or reviews of the AWD M3/M4 and go from there.
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      12-29-2020, 11:27 PM   #12
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Just dug up some info on weight

M3 Comp (8at RWD) 3,979 lbs

Audi RS5 Sportback 4 057 lbs

I don't really see how the M3 AWD would be any lighter than the Audi..

Although true to BMW it should still have better driving dynamics and feel. It's a shame M3 is losing one of its core attributes against competition, it was still lighter than the Guila Quadrofoglio but not anymore...
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      12-30-2020, 12:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
At an Audi event I test drove RS3, TTRS, RS5 Sportback and R8 V10 Spyder and the RS5 was the one I liked the most. I felt that If I'd have to drive only one car it would something similar to this.

My only gripe with the Audi is its driving dynamics on track but seeing what BMW is doing with the G m series there could be less différence than in the past.

I'm really impatient to test drive the new M3 !
I find that BMW's RWD bias on M-performance or ///M xDrive is very noticeable in comparison to Audi S/RS. It's fairly easy to kick out the rear or spin a throttle-on 180 in the bimmers but very difficult in the Audis. This is makes a big difference to me.

To OP, I think you're looking at the G8x, RS5, or 911. I suppose Focus RS or STi get into that realm too but no thanks. That's really it for AWD track capable family haulers. If you want to be silly, I ran my X3M comp at a road course HPDE and it blew my socks off on the circuit but I wouldn't do that more than like a couple times.
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      12-30-2020, 08:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
At an Audi event I test drove RS3, TTRS, RS5 Sportback and R8 V10 Spyder and the RS5 was the one I liked the most. I felt that If I'd have to drive only one car it would something similar to this.

My only gripe with the Audi is its driving dynamics on track but seeing what BMW is doing with the G m series there could be less différence than in the past.

I'm really impatient to test drive the new M3 !
I find that BMW's RWD bias on M-performance or ///M xDrive is very noticeable in comparison to Audi S/RS. It's fairly easy to kick out the rear or spin a throttle-on 180 in the bimmers but very difficult in the Audis. This is makes a big difference to me.

To OP, I think you're looking at the G8x, RS5, or 911. I suppose Focus RS or STi get into that realm too but no thanks. That's really it for AWD track capable family haulers. If you want to be silly, I ran my X3M comp at a road course HPDE and it blew my socks off on the circuit but I wouldn't do that more than like a couple times.
Thanks for confirming my suppositions about AWD systems between both brands, I did own a m235i Xdrive for a few months before the M2 and did track it and it felt good enough even with the open diff that I did manage to get leaking.

The other "SUV" that I have been considering for a long time is a Macan Turbo or even GTS. I know it's track capable but my common sense tells me 10 days per season could a stretch..

It's still mind blowing that the Macan 4cyl Sport Edition (GTS'ish suspension) weights *** correction it weights around 3900 lbs*** so it's lighter than the upcoming M3 AWD. Of course they don't compare but Porsche made an impressive package with those Macans
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      12-30-2020, 01:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
At an Audi event I test drove RS3, TTRS, RS5 Sportback and R8 V10 Spyder and the RS5 was the one I liked the most. I felt that If I'd have to drive only one car it would something similar to this.

My only gripe with the Audi is its driving dynamics on track but seeing what BMW is doing with the G m series there could be less différence than in the past.

I'm really impatient to test drive the new M3 !
I find that BMW's RWD bias on M-performance or ///M xDrive is very noticeable in comparison to Audi S/RS. It's fairly easy to kick out the rear or spin a throttle-on 180 in the bimmers but very difficult in the Audis. This is makes a big difference to me.

To OP, I think you're looking at the G8x, RS5, or 911. I suppose Focus RS or STi get into that realm too but no thanks. That's really it for AWD track capable family haulers. If you want to be silly, I ran my X3M comp at a road course HPDE and it blew my socks off on the circuit but I wouldn't do that more than like a couple times.
Thanks for confirming my suppositions about AWD systems between both brands, I did own a m235i Xdrive for a few months before the M2 and did track it and it felt good enough even with the open diff that I did manage to get leaking.

The other "SUV" that I have been considering for a long time is a Macan Turbo or even GTS. I know it's track capable but my common sense tells me 10 days per season could a stretch..

It's still mind blowing that the Macan 4cyl Sport Edition (GTS'ish suspension) weights *** correction it weights around 3900 lbs*** so it's lighter than the upcoming M3 AWD. Of course they don't compare but Porsche made an impressive package with those Macans
Have you driven any Macan yet? Fantastic car for handling and transmission but seriously down on power even in Turbo trim, especially for the money. I have driven Macan S and the first gen Turbo and they are not fast cars. The S was slightly slower than my prior B9 SQ5 and the Turbo only marginally faster. My current X3M feels two magnitudes faster for at least $25k less than an optioned Turbo when the discounts are factored in. Macan is also cramped inside although trunk space is ok.

I like the Macan but it just doesn't pencil out when the X3M and GLC63 exist for substantially less cost.
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      12-30-2020, 01:57 PM   #16
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Here's a random AWD comparison, what about B8 RS5 and save $40k? That V8 is a peach and I think it looks better than G8x. It will certainly be slower and not a great track car but still fun to drive with that 8300 rpm redline. I guess it doesn't really fit the family hauler model but can do it better than a 911.
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      12-30-2020, 02:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Here's a random AWD comparison, what about B8 RS5 and save $40k? That V8 is a peach and I think it looks better than G8x. It will certainly be slower and not a great track car but still fun to drive with that 8300 rpm redline. I guess it doesn't really fit the family hauler model but can do it better than a 911.
I would advice caution in buying an older car than your current M2. Yes the Audi has AWD but it will feel extremely dated vs the M2. Time is ruthless to cars even those who were favorites in their time. I’m even hesitant to recommend a 991 of this reason. Mechanically fantastic but it already feel dated in the cabin. Look forward not backwards when buying cars unless it’s true GOATS like high powered air cooled 911 models. They will cost more than 992 equivalents though...
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      12-30-2020, 02:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Here's a random AWD comparison, what about B8 RS5 and save $40k? That V8 is a peach and I think it looks better than G8x. It will certainly be slower and not a great track car but still fun to drive with that 8300 rpm redline. I guess it doesn't really fit the family hauler model but can do it better than a 911.
You make a point and there are many incredible older and fun cars on the market, just having a hard time going older than the M2, there are a lot of bad trends in newer car but there are many things that are actually better, ex: reliability seems to have made a huge leap in the last 20 years.
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      12-30-2020, 02:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Here's a random AWD comparison, what about B8 RS5 and save $40k? That V8 is a peach and I think it looks better than G8x. It will certainly be slower and not a great track car but still fun to drive with that 8300 rpm redline. I guess it doesn't really fit the family hauler model but can do it better than a 911.
I would advice caution in buying an older car than your current M2. Yes the Audi has AWD but it will feel extremely dated vs the M2. Time is ruthless to cars even those who were favorites in their time. I'm even hesitant to recommend a 991 of this reason. Mechanically fantastic but it already feel dated in the cabin. Look forward not backwards when buying cars unless it's true GOATS like high powered air cooled 911 models. They will cost more than 992 equivalents though...
When I was thinking of replacing my Q5 TDI, I actually did test drive 3 Macans, a base 4cyl and around 8 months later a sport edition (4cyl, air suspension, sport Chrono, sport ex.) and then a Macan S with steel suspension.

I finally ended up investing a couple thousands in the Q5 to make it good as new and honestly it's been the best daily I owned as of now.

As for Macans, strangely the sport edition felt the best to me, probably due to the light weight, it felt agile and light on its feel for an SUV. The S felt nose heavy like my TDI but in a good way like a nice cruiser, engine wise I think the V6 Macans feel slow because Porsche tunes them to feel like non-turbo engines. As the 4 popper well it felt like a good VAG group 4 cyl wich are amongst the best of there kind. That Sport Edition with its good fuel economy would be a perfect daily replacement but I don't really see it as a track day thing.

I test drove a X3 M40i and altrought it did everything well it just did not inspire me much, and I would not want anything stiffer than this in an SUV.. My BMW vendor tried to sway me to a X4M but all I read and ear in reviews is its overly stiff for no good reason.

I am also kind of tired to drive cars that you have to be going 3x the speed limit to feel anything, sometimes I just lust over Evoras but winters crush my vision..
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      12-30-2020, 03:05 PM   #20
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When I was thinking of replacing my Q5 TDI, I actually did test drive 3 Macans, a base 4cyl and around 8 months later a sport edition (4cyl, air suspension, sport Chrono, sport ex.) and then a Macan S with steel suspension.

I finally ended up investing a couple thousands in the Q5 to make it good as new and honestly it's been the best daily I owned as of now.

As for Macans, strangely the sport edition felt the best to me, probably due to the light weight, it felt agile and light on its feel for an SUV. The S felt nose heavy like my TDI but in a good way like a nice cruiser, engine wise I think the V6 Macans feel slow because Porsche tunes them to feel like non-turbo engines. As the 4 popper well it felt like a good VAG group 4 cyl wich are amongst the best of there kind. That Sport Edition with its good fuel economy would be a perfect daily replacement but I don't really see it as a track day thing.

I test drove a X3 M40i and altrought it did everything well it just did not inspire me much, and I would not want anything stiffer than this in an SUV.. My BMW vendor tried to sway me to a X4M but all I read and ear in reviews is its overly stiff for no good reason. (It’s NA and have HPS)

I am also kind of tired to drive cars that you have to be going 3x the speed limit to feel anything, sometimes I just lust over Evoras but winters crush my vision..
Keeping a car you like for long is great, we have a 2013 Cayenne that is just amazing for what it is and what we use it for. It’s more fun to drive than any SUV or car at it’s size and weight have the right to. I actually fear to trade it since I don’t think I can find something new as satisfying for a reasonable penny (It is naturally aspirated and has HPS)

However going backwards as your 2018 M2 to an older generation car is something very different and a recipe for regrets IMO.
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      12-30-2020, 04:01 PM   #21
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I have to say one BIG advantage the G80 M3 would have is the carbon bucket seats for track usage. Look decent for daily tasks.

Porsche 18 way sport seats would cut it tough, there carbon buckets are more extreme and definately not very good for daily duties.
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      12-30-2020, 04:03 PM   #22
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I have to say one BIG advantage the G80 M3 would have is the carbon bucket seats for track usage. Look decent for daily tasks.

Porsche 18 way sport seats would cut it tough, there carbon buckets are more extreme and definately not very good for daily duties.
I agree, the G8X buckets seem stellar dual purpose seats. Overall I suspect the G8X to be a great car, we just sorely lack references at the moment to figure out how good it really is...patience should pay off here.
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