[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So i don't know if i'm reading the article right, which shows a date of november 2021 but at the beginning it said, march 2018. Is that when the interview took place?

Plus, with AMG canning the V8 for a hybrid 4, and with how stict EU regulations are, you really think they're not going to follow?

So your opinion is next gen the next M3 will have a 6cyl, plus twin turbo with a hybrid system? I don't see that happening one bit.

The article included a link to the Auto Motor und Sport interview dated from November. I think it answers many of your questions. Bottom line, BMW will be offering several different powertrain solutions and not following the same path of AMG or other competitors. I personally think BMW will stand out as the enthusiast's choice for the next decade in comparison to Audi or Mercedes. I also predict the CSL will be awesome.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

The article included a link to the Auto Motor und Sport interview dated from November. I think it answers many of your questions. Bottom line, BMW will be offering several different powertrain solutions and not following the same path of AMG or other competitors. I personally think BMW will stand out as the enthusiast's choice for the next decade in comparison to Audi or Mercedes. I also predict the CSL will be awesome.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

I totally agree. Stupid MB. What a joke.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

The article included a link to the Auto Motor und Sport interview dated from November. I think it answers many of your questions. Bottom line, BMW will be offering several different powertrain solutions and not following the same path of AMG or other competitors. I personally think BMW will stand out as the enthusiast's choice for the next decade in comparison to Audi or Mercedes. I also predict the CSL will be awesome.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...aendigen-m-an/

How long does an M3 generation last? 7-8MY's?

That would mean the G8x would finalize in 2028-2029? Thus his statement possibly holding true that the S58 we currently have, WILL last until the end of the decade.

The next generation will be definitely be a hybrid or EV. He didn't state it will have the 6cyl after 2030.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

How long does an M3 generation last? 7-8MY's?

That would mean the G8x would finalize in 2028-2029? Thus his statement possibly holding true that the S58 we currently have, WILL last until the end of the decade.

The next generation will be definitely be a hybrid or EV. He didn't state it will have the 6cyl after 2030.

I don't know. My general point being that enthusiasts don't need to concede to EVs when companies like BMW still see value in offering ICEs in their performance cars for the foreseeable future. They know what their M customers truly desire and have worked hard to extend the life of their large combustion engines. We should commend BMW for taking the road less travelled rather than succumb to societal pressures.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I don't know. My general point being that enthusiasts don't need to concede to EVs when companies like BMW still see value in offering ICEs in their performance cars for the foreseeable future. They know what their M customers truly desire and have worked hard to extend the life of their large combustion engines. We should commend BMW for taking the road less travelled rather than succumb to societal pressures.

No one is being pressurized into anything lol. That's the logic i'm having a difficult time understanding when i read these types of posts. Of course everyone has a say in the discussion and everyone has their opinion.

I was merely pointing out the difference between wishful thinking and reality. I'm on the side of both so i'm posting from an unbiased standpoint. However with where we're going, and the article you posted, the next gen M3 could in fact be EV or to the very least, hybrid 4. Remember we're talking about nearing 2030 as the next gen, as per that article. He did not state he's confident with the same powerplant moving forward 2030+ when nearly every car maker has switched to EV. Disregarding hybridizing their lineup.

But you are right, in this year, we are lucky BMW has offered these monster platforms. And when it comes down to it, there's still a used market you can choose from in the future.

Hence what i said earlier about saving the ICE market would be to get into an EV.

[PLF69]

Give me my M's or any other car I want with a nice PHEV system that I gives a 150-200lbs penality but gives me the ability to drive 50-100km full EV per day and I will use it in a way that I will reduce my fossil fuel significantly on 98% of my driving/usage.

Also give me a good driving experience when batteries are depleted so I can do my full track days without worrying about recharging or doing long trips enduring 150-200hp less.

I don't really get why hybrid systems wouldn't play a nice progressive role, ppl want 1000km full EV's, everyone I talk to say they will buy one when they can have a 700-800km range.

Like others said, EV's make ppl feel good and politicals are banking on this, sadly even if it isn't the most efficient course.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Give me my M's or any other car I want with a nice PHEV system that I gives a 150-200lbs penality but gives me the ability to drive 50-100km full EV per day and I will use it in a way that I will reduce my fossil fuel significantly on 98% of my driving/usage.

Also give me a good driving experience when batteries are depleted so I can do my full track days without worrying about recharging or doing long trips enduring 150-200hp less.

I don't really get why hybrid systems wouldn't play a nice progressive role, ppl want 1000km full EV's, everyone I talk to say they will buy one when they can have a 700-800km range.

Like others said, EV's make ppl feel good and politicals are banking on this, sadly even if it isn't the most efficient course.

Hybrids should be the future. 30 Mile Range pure electric, then ICE for everything else. It can be done. A few years ago, Ferrari, Porsche, and McLaren all built hybrid hyper cars. What's stopping manufacturers from trickling down this tech to other vehicles?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by madpistol

Hybrids should be the future. 30 Mile Range pure electric, then ICE for everything else. It can be done. A few years ago, Ferrari, Porsche, and McLaren all built hybrid hyper cars. What's stopping manufacturers from trickling down this tech to other vehicles?

Because they hate oil. Period!!!

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by madpistol

Hybrids should be the future. 30 Mile Range pure electric, then ICE for everything else. It can be done. A few years ago, Ferrari, Porsche, and McLaren all built hybrid hyper cars. What's stopping manufacturers from trickling down this tech to other vehicles?

The answer has been said multiple times in this thread.

The path is laid out. This is where we're going. EV.

Nothing we can do. Might as well accept it.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The answer has been said multiple times in this thread.

The path is laid out. This is where we're going. EV.

Nothing we can do. Might as well accept it.

I’ll tell you what I’ll place a bet with you on that. I’ll bet you 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now they’ll be still more, much more ice than EV. Significantly more. I’ll also bet you that 10 years from now charging times won’t be much more improved either. Of course the time line for implementation I’m talking about is for the United States. I won’t speak for Europe. 10 years from now I’m fairly confident that the EU will be more powerful than each individual countries governments will be anyway so that’s the way they’re going over there. In the United States the market will determine the speed or the severity of any technological transition not over zealous government like in the EU or down under. So if your EV predictions turn out to be true in the United States it will only be because the people want it. Now do you really think over 50% of the citizens in the United States want EV forced by government on them? Doubtful. Don’t get me wrong there definitely is a percentage of our citizens who love it when government enforces its power but they are still in the minority thank God. The only way for your predictions to come true in the United States will be for massive improvements in charging times and battery life as well as huge infrastructure changes rapidly by adding charging stations everywhere there are gas stations with lots more space because cars will have to pile up and wait times will be longer. You think that will happen in 10 years? Lol. Where I live in Tampa they are still working at intersections changing the roads around for 10 years.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I don't know. My general point being that enthusiasts don't need to concede to EVs when companies like BMW still see value in offering ICEs in their performance cars for the foreseeable future. They know what their M customers truly desire and have worked hard to extend the life of their large combustion engines. We should commend BMW for taking the road less travelled rather than succumb to societal pressures.

Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’ll tell you what I’ll place a bet with you on that. I’ll bet you 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now they’ll be still more, much more ice than EV. Significantly more. I’ll also bet you that 10 years from now charging times won’t be much more improved either. Of course the time line for implementation I’m talking about is for the United States. I won’t speak for Europe. 10 years from now I’m fairly confident that the EU will be more powerful than each individual countries governments will be anyway so that’s the way they’re going over there. In the United States the market will determine the speed or the severity of any technological transition not over zealous government like in the EU or down under. So if your EV predictions turn out to be true in the United States it will only be because the people want it. Now do you really think over 50% of the citizens in the United States want EV forced by government on them? Doubtful. Don’t get me wrong there definitely is a percentage of our citizens who love it when government enforces its power but they are still in the minority thank God. The only way for your predictions to come true in the United States will be for massive improvements in charging times and battery life as well as huge infrastructure changes rapidly by adding charging stations everywhere there are gas stations with lots more space because cars will have to pile up and wait times will be longer. You think that will happen in 10 years? Lol. Where I live in Tampa they are still working at intersections changing the roads around for 10 years.

Wow. Someone doesn’t read what’s going on.

My EV predictions? Bro look at what’s going on. Car makers are making the switch NOW. In 2021, or soon to be 2022.

A lot can change in the course of even a 3 year span.

Yes I will absolutely take you on that bet. What year you want to try this? Next year maybe doubtful. Let’s do what I said earlier. Let’s try December 2023. And we’ll monitor the progress in 2 year increments.

Before we reach 2030 no one will give 2 shits about performance ICE. As it will get stomped on by performance EV. You’re only going to see a few ICE cars on the road for nostalgic purposes.

Someone is afraid of change and it’s certainly not me LOL

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by akkando

Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.

Bingo.

[Cliff Bear]

Three biggest obstacles to EV adoption in no particular order (from consumer perspective). 1) charging network (easiest to overcome in time). 2) charge times 3) cost (vehicle and electricity and recycling)

We are and will be on the steepest part of the EV technology curve for quite some time. An EV owner has to consider obsolescence. How will an EV owner feel when, after 5 years of ownership, they see new EVs with 50-100% more range, and charge times approaching ICE fill-up times. With batteries losing charge capacity over time, I wouldn't want to have to sell a used EV although I'm sure I'll be in that situation.

EVs are still semi-luxury goods, priced significantly higher than their ICE counterparts. If not for government subsidies, they would be unobtainable for the majority of Americans.

And back to the grid. Electricity costs will only go up as EV demand increases and fossil fuel production decreases.

Carbon footprint? Almost 20% of US electricity is still generated by coal.

And then there is the logistical problem of recycling all of these batteries, not to mention the cost.

All this being said, I've leased and retired a Leaf (85 miles range!) and leased and retired a Bolt. My wife will buy an EV in the next 2-3 years although we would prefer a PHEV. I will continue to own two ICE cars for a long time.

ICEs will be around for a while.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by akkando

Gas at $10-$15 a gallon or more and zero resale market will make people think twice. I don't think many will be choosing an ICE M3 in 2033 knowing there's no buyer for the vehicle when they want to get rid of it, and they can't keep it long term because the running costs are insane and gas stations are reduced. May not even be legal to drive long term in their area.

Agree they won't be choosing a 10 year old car as their daily driver in 2033. However, I do believe there will be a healthy number of enthusiasts who'll want a G80 as their weekend toy (and an autonomous driving Tesla as their commuter). $10-$15 gallon gas won't matter as much when these cars will only be used for entertainment purposes.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bear

Three biggest obstacles to EV adoption in no particular order (from consumer perspective). 1) charging network (easiest to overcome in time). 2) charge times 3) cost (vehicle and electricity and recycling)

We are and will be on the steepest part of the EV technology curve for quite some time. An EV owner has to consider obsolescence. How will an EV owner feel when, after 5 years of ownership, they see new EVs with 50-100% more range, and charge times approaching ICE fill-up times. With batteries losing charge capacity over time, I wouldn't want to have to sell a used EV although I'm sure I'll be in that situation.

EVs are still semi-luxury goods, priced significantly higher than their ICE counterparts. If not for government subsidies, they would be unobtainable for the majority of Americans.

And back to the grid. Electricity costs will only go up as EV demand increases and fossil fuel production decreases.

Carbon footprint? Almost 20% of US electricity is still generated by coal.

And then there is the logistical problem of recycling all of these batteries, not to mention the cost.

All this being said, I've leased and retired a Leaf (85 miles range!) and leased and retired a Bolt. My wife will buy an EV in the next 2-3 years although we would prefer a PHEV. I will continue to own two ICE cars for a long time.

ICEs will be around for a while.

You’re right about charging times and the network, that will be the fastest improvements we’ll see.

The other stuff you said is true however again, it’s already happening so whatever the downsides are, are what we have to deal with when that roadblock arrives.

I’m merely pointing out it’s here and we have to accept it.

Everyone is going ev. There wouldn’t be any other choice. And they’re not going to appease the 0.001% that would still want an inferior ICE car.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Wow. Someone doesn’t read what’s going on.

My EV predictions? Bro look at what’s going on. Car makers are making the switch NOW. In 2021, or soon to be 2022.

A lot can change in the course of even a 3 year span.

Yes I will absolutely take you on that bet. What year you want to try this? Next year maybe doubtful. Let’s do what I said earlier. Let’s try December 2023. And we’ll monitor the progress in 2 year increments.

Before we reach 2030 no one will give 2 shits about performance ICE. As it will get stomped on by performance EV. You’re only going to see a few ICE cars on the road for nostalgic purposes.

Someone is afraid of change and it’s certainly not me LOL

Brother try reading what I wrote. I’m absolutely not afraid of change so long as the free market and capitalism dictate it and not some religious government officials.

Auto manufacturers can say anything they want. Let’s see what happens. I’m banking that you are wrong on almost all your predictions.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Brother try reading what I wrote. I’m absolutely not afraid of change so long as the free market and capitalism dictate it and not some religious government officials.

Auto manufacturers can say anything they want. Let’s see what happens. I’m banking that you are wrong on almost all your predictions.

Lol I must be in the twilight zone.

How am I wrong when it’s happening?

Exotic super cars? Turning ev

Regular cars like the hellcat? Turning ev

The freaking corvette for the c9 generation? Turning ev

Everyone is going ev dude can’t you see? This isn’t 2010 when Tesla was out and people were wondering if others will follow.

They’re doing it NOW.

What are you talking about? I’m not saying ice will be dead tomorrow. I said the transition is Happening now and according to THEIR plan.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Lol I must be in the twilight zone.

How am I wrong when it’s happening?

Exotic super cars? Turning ev

Regular cars like the hellcat? Turning ev

The freaking corvette for the c9 generation? Turning ev

Everyone is going ev dude can’t you see? This isn’t 2010 when Tesla was out and people were wondering if others will follow.

They’re doing it NOW.

What are you talking about? I’m not saying ice will be dead tomorrow. I said the transition is Happening now and according to THEIR plan.

All that’s happening now is that some companies are getting into it. Woptee freaking Duda. You make it sound like it’s over. Everybody will only produce electric freaking cars from now on in and ice is dead. I’m calling Barbra Streisand on that. Time will say. What you do have going for you is a handful of religious governments in the EU forcing it on manufacturers. So far that hasn’t happened in the United States and I’m banking it won’t. If I turn out to be wrong I’ll admit it.

[Cliff Bear]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Lol I must be in the twilight zone.

How am I wrong when it’s happening?

Exotic super cars? Turning ev

Regular cars like the hellcat? Turning ev

The freaking corvette for the c9 generation? Turning ev

Everyone is going ev dude can’t you see? This isn’t 2010 when Tesla was out and people were wondering if others will follow.

They’re doing it NOW.

What are you talking about? I’m not saying ice will be dead tomorrow. I said the transition is Happening now and according to THEIR plan.

Toyota just announced that 30% of their production in 2030 will be EV which means 70% will still be ICE. Ferrari, Porsche are small manufacturers.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Patton250

All that’s happening now is that some companies are getting into it. Woptee freaking Duda. You make it sound like it’s over. Everybody will only produce electric freaking cars from now on in and ice is dead. I’m calling Barbra Streisand on that. Time will say. What you do have going for you is a handful of religious governments in the EU forcing it on manufacturers. So far that hasn’t happened in the United States and I’m banking it won’t. If I turn out to be wrong I’ll admit it.

Again, you're still not understanding.

I never said it's over, i said it's happening. Which is obvious because every social media source will have topics putting that in your face to read.

In big markets, it's already happening. Cali and NYC already announced 2035.

Every year they present something moving foward with EV.

I already said it in other threads that if they stopped ICE sales TODAY, it would take about 12-14 years to put only 50% of the cars on the road ICE/EV.

When they announce 2030 or 2035, you just add x amount of years to that, to get 50%. Using guesswork.

So where do you see where i'm saying it's over? You obviously have time.

I'm saying it's coming. And every year that goes by, you'll see the changes happening even faster. Hence why i said let's monitor this in 2 year increments. We're having this discussion now. So let's visit this thread in 2023 and see the progress.

ICE cars will be for recreational purposes only in the future. As for performance, will get rocked by EV. Mark my words on that.

But if that doesn't matter to you, so i guess it's just sound? Then yes i will be on your side in that discussion all day long. That's why i'm getting a C8Z and keeping that until i die.

But everything else moving foward with EV and it's performance. The charging people have an issue with, battery technology, the network, will greatly improve at an alarming rate.

This isn't 2010-2020 and that progress. Instead, use what you know about EV during those years and triple that speed. That's how fast this is advancing.

I'm not sure why you're getting upset. Not like they're just going to change their mind and go, "sorry world, we fucked up! EV isn't the answer. We're going back to ICE only"

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bear

Toyota just announced that 30% of their production in 2030 will be EV which means 70% will still be ICE. Ferrari, Porsche are small manufacturers.

Right.

Which is why i said EV was thought of as commuter replacement only.

Yet the most advanced, fastest production cars every produced in automotive history, are switching to EV now. They're not even waiting until 2035 lol. That's my point.

When smaller markets like dodge, GM, ford are shifting to EV, guess where everyone else will start moving foward to?

Yup. EV.

Imagine BMW still producing an ICE M3 or ICE "x" car only for it to get rocked by a EV hellcat.