[EXE46]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Except that it's not slower than the Blackwing.... You must have missed where they mentioned that these cars were run in "freezing temps" which undoubtedly would have a big impact on traction. The fact that the Blackwing and CSL are virtually even while the CSL was run in freezing temps shows just how much quicker the CSL is if the track conditions were more similar.

and the CUP2's tires of course, either way good run by the CSL.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

To be fair, we adjusted because we had no choice.

Oh, you had/have a choice. Used cars, and there's still current V8s for sale...like Mercedes AMGs, Lexus F cars and Mustangs...and Dodge.

And in 10 years, we'll still have a choice. There will be some pristine ICE cars for sale.

[Rafichicago]

Ha ha that miserable G80 M3 clan in the M3 forum is freaking hilarious. They are almost like Tesla owners 🤣
Just watched that vid. Great production. Really well executed. Same day same driver same track. Unfavorable conditions to say the least but still. Same for every car there. All cars are very impressive. Longer straights and Z06 would win. More corners GT3 RS walks them all even more. And no. In reality it’s more like 2-3 hundred thousand difference between Bmw and Porsche. Much different cars from each other. Bmw doesn’t do bad in that company. I truly dislike current M3. very impressive nonetheless. Those that think it would outrun RS or get anywhere near it’s track performance need to think again

[jmg]

Wow that was an amazing video. I love the corner by corner breakdown. This being one of my home tracks added to it given the hundreds of laps I've done at Big Willow. Turns 8 and 9 will test your will, it's one of the fastest turns in the US supposedly (west of the Mississippi) and I've had many a code brown on those turns. Those times are impressive, I've not gone faster than a 1:38 in my F80 M3 CS, because I'm slow and I don't want to ball up my car. I haven't taken the G82 there yet, but I hope to break into the lower 30's.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Oh, you had/have a choice. Used cars, and there's still current V8s for sale...like Mercedes AMGs, Lexus F cars and Mustangs...and Dodge.

And in 10 years, we'll still have a choice. There will be some pristine ICE cars for sale.

I don't really call that having a choice.... Realistically you still go for the best total package (which you yourself define), and end up settling on certain features (i.e. the # of cylinders or method of induction). I've never been a big fan of turbos but I've "adjusted" because some of the best all-around cars use them (i.e. the G80). You could say the Cadillacs are choices except as a total package I still consider the G80 to be a better car - so there's that. The Lexus F cars are basically sweet engines stuck in cars from 2013, AMGs are downsizing to 4 bangers, and I don't really consider Mustangs and Dodges competitors in this class.

So I'd say we're "adjusting" to these smaller turbo engines and EVs because in terms of the total package, there aren't better options out there. But a true choice would be a modern car with a modernized version of those sweet V8s/V10s/V12s that we love.

[gabeomatic]

Lightning lap times:

M5 CS 2:50.3
CT5V Blackwing 2:49.4
M4 CSL 2:47.5

for fun: Camaro ZL1 1LE (2019) 2:45 o.0

GT4 RS 2:40.5
2019 ZR1 2:39.5
2023 Z06 2:38.6

[Hit_Apex]

Yeah, bashing the CSL with the Camaro has some weight not the Blackwong.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by gabeomatic

Lightning lap times:

M5 CS 2:50.3
CT5V Blackwing 2:49.4
M4 CSL 2:47.5

for fun: Camaro ZL1 1LE (2019) 2:45 o.0

GT4 RS 2:40.5
2019 ZR1 2:39.5
2023 Z06 2:38.6

I went up against a Camaro ZL1 1LE at a Time Attack at a local track a few weeks ago. Three heats, 6 laps a heat. He won the first heat by 0.30 seconds. I beat him the next two heats by 0.86 and 0.16 respectively. My best official time that day was 00:45.89. I was on Cup2's, he was on SC3's. Both non-R. We both had passengers. They are no joke, and I think he would have beat me with more experience on that track. I've been going there for years, and it was only his 2nd time there. I need more practice.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I don't really call that having a choice.... Realistically you still go for the best total package (which you yourself define), and end up settling on certain features (i.e. the # of cylinders or method of induction). I've never been a big fan of turbos but I've "adjusted" because some of the best all-around cars use them (i.e. the G80). You could say the Cadillacs are choices except as a total package I still consider the G80 to be a better car - so there's that. The Lexus F cars are basically sweet engines stuck in cars from 2013, AMGs are downsizing to 4 bangers, and I don't really consider Mustangs and Dodges competitors in this class.

So I'd say we're "adjusting" to these smaller turbo engines and EVs because in terms of the total package, there aren't better options out there. But a true choice would be a modern car with a modernized version of those sweet V8s/V10s/V12s that we love.

Corvettes, Blackwings, Camaros, Mustangs...all have fairly modern sweet V8s, IMO. And what about Porsches (Panamera? Cayenne?), Audi RS6, Jaguar F Types? Again, you have choices today if you want a V8...and some even have manuals. So we need to quit bitchin' about what we don't have and appreciate what we do have, before they're all gone. Just because you want the perceived better "all-arounder" doesn't negate the fact that if you want a new V8 today in a pretty compelling car, you can get one. The Blackwing is quite a raucous all-arounder, with a manual nonetheless.

V10s are at the end of their run, in R8s and Lambos. V12s are getting rarer and rarer too.

But if you have the money, you will be able to find quite a few low-mileage, garage queen V10s and V12s over the next 20 years. Start saving up.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Corvettes, Blackwings, Camaros, Mustangs...all have fairly modern sweet V8s, IMO. And what about Porsches (Panamera? Cayenne?), Audi RS6, Jaguar F Types? Again, you have choices today if you want a V8...and some even have manuals. So we need to quit bitchin' about what we don't have and appreciate what we do have, before they're all gone. Just because you want the perceived better "all-arounder" doesn't negate the fact that if you want a new V8 today in a pretty compelling car, you can get one. The Blackwing is quite a raucous all-arounder, with a manual nonetheless.

V10s are at the end of their run, in R8s and Lambos. V12s are getting rarer and rarer too.

But if you have the money, you will be able to find quite a few low-mileage, garage queen V10s and V12s over the next 20 years. Start saving up.

It's the same issue... the RS6 is a twin turbo.. the panamera is a twin turbo...the m8 gran coupe is a twin turbo....all 3 also being massively expensive. Slapping turbos on a v8 will make it really fast but IMO sucks some of the character out of it.

the corvettes, mustangs, f types, camaros have crappy build quality and other various compromises (2 seaters, lack of modern tech, etc).

The IS500 had potential if lexus bothered to update the car at all.

Really the only option is the blackwing (I'm ok with supercharging). And as an overall car I find the G80 to be better.

So let me bitch if I want to.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by 1209582

high chance it will cost $ to unlock different engine sounds.

But still cheaper than an oil change

[G30M]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

CSL continues to disappoint, not that you’d expect it to do any better against these 2, but the fact that it’s slower than the Blackwing is a testament that it’s all show (and an extremely ugly one at that) and no go. Paying $150K for that? No thanks.

When he said they were within a foot of each other I thought no way…then realized it was at turn 1, lol.

Heavy car that is relatively tall and no weight over the driven rear wheels

It's a muscle car but without the V8

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by gabeomatic

Lightning lap times:

M5 CS 2:50.3
CT5V Blackwing 2:49.4
M4 CSL 2:47.5

for fun: Camaro ZL1 1LE (2019) 2:45 o.0

GT4 RS 2:40.5
2019 ZR1 2:39.5
2023 Z06 2:38.6

That’s why I said it months ago bmw hasn’t really made a proper “race car”. Their focus seems to be shear straight line speed, mainly for the street. Seems the video tells that the bmw is very impressive for its power going straight, never anything else.

I’m just happy the fat pig NA z06 kept up with the master gt3rs. Would love to see the Same race in more optimal conditions.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

CSL continues to disappoint, not that you’d expect it to do any better against these 2, but the fact that it’s slower than the Blackwing is a testament that it’s all show (and an extremely ugly one at that) and no go. Paying $150K for that? No thanks.

When he said they were within a foot of each other I thought no way…then realized it was at turn 1, lol.

Here we go... let's just ignore ambient temps, the fact that the car was the only one NOT on the CUP 2Rs, which it was developed on. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder - this car gets more positive attention than any other car I've owned but hey ho...

[CanAutM3]

IMO the cold temps for this track test do not have a huge negative impact on lap times. Once tires are warmed up, they do not give up much grip despite the cooler temps, and the cooler temps are quite favorable for the engines. As a matter of fact, as posted most of my fastest laps in my various cars in very cold conditions.

It’s a shame the M4CSL was not tested with its optional PSC2R. I wonder if BMW did this purposefully to avoid a direct comparison. It does show how good the star spec PS4S actually is though.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

IMO the cold temps for this track test do not have a huge negative impact on lap times. Once tires are warmed up, they do not give up much grip despite the cooler temps, and the cooler temps are quite favorable for the engines. As a matter of fact, as posted most of my fastest laps in my various cars in very cold conditions.

It’s a shame the M4CSL was not tested with its optional PSC2R. I wonder if BMW did this purposefully to avoid a direct comparison.

Doubt it - why would they care? Nobody would expect an M4CSL to beat either the Corvette Z06 or a brand new GT3RS around a track, but if it got close, then that would be amazing. If it was 2s or more faster on the same tyres, then that would have been a great result.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Doubt it - why would they care? Nobody would expect an M4CSL to beat either the Corvette Z06 or a brand new GT3RS around a track, but if it got close, then that would be amazing. If it was 2s or more faster on the same tyres, then that would have been a great result.

Totally agree. I don’t think M4CSL is in the same league as GT3RS. But that’s ok. It’s cool it can even keep up.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

It’s cool it can even keep up.

Say what ?

[Humdizzle]

i find it funny that BMW could not source some cup2r for their CSL. They had the same issue with Car and Driver Lightening Lap a few months ago. Tire puncture and BMW could find them a replacement tire.

I think BMW has just stopped caring. They dont want to spend the time and money to next day ship a set of Cup tires from Japan for a mag test. something GM and Porsche would do

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i find it funny that BMW could not source some cup2r for their CSL. They had the same issue with Car and Driver Lightening Lap a few months ago. Tire puncture and BMW could find them a replacement tire.

I think BMW has just stopped caring. They dont want to spend the time and money to next day ship a set of Cup tires from Japan for a mag test. something GM and Porsche would do

Actually, no. I had a puncture and wanted to replace my Cup 2R, there was not a single tyre available in the entire UK market. These tyres are in very short supply at the moment, it's not just some massive BMW conspiracy.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

Totally agree. I don’t think M4CSL is in the same league as GT3RS. But that’s ok. It’s cool it can even keep up.

Keep up in what way?

That much time difference on that type of track is equivalent to someone running 9.5 in the 1/4 and someone who runs 11.5.

The CSL couldn't touch the other 2 cars and if you think about it, has the advantage because of it's turbos at high elevation which you saw anytime there was a straight.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Keep up in what way?

That much time difference on that type of track is equivalent to someone running 9.5 in the 1/4 and someone who runs 11.5.

The CSL couldn't touch the other 2 cars and if you think about it, has the advantage because of it's turbos at high elevation which you saw anytime there was a straight.

Of course it can’t keep up with them. It has no aero. The GT3 RS was pulling 800Kg at some point.