[Bonziii82]

Originally Posted by madpistol

My heart says yes.

My bank account says no.

This -- I'm first in line at my dealer too.

[YKIGI]

And if so many here are “first in line” at their dealers that should tell you something…..

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

None. But cars that stuck to their roots and still offer the feel people want. Some examples. BMW could have done this too. They sold out IMO

Porsche
Cadillac
MB AMG
Golf VR6
Civic Type R
Audi RS3
Mustang Shelby 350/500
Toyota GR86
And currently the Giulia Quadrifoglio is phenomenal

LOL, go on Rennlist and all anyone is doing is complaining how the 992 is too soft compared to the 991. And the 997 fans complain the 991 is too soft. And the air cooled guys don't like the water cooled cars.

Cadillac? Which Cadillac are we talking about? The Cadillac that made the Catera? Or the CTS which isn't quite the same as the CT5. Or maybe the one that made the STS back in the 90's? Or is it the one that makes the Escalade now? Caddy has no idea what it is.

MB AMG just introduced a C63 with a turbo 4 cylinder and hybrid system.

The Mk8 GTi is fat and complicated compared to the 5, 6 and 7. And they haven't made an R32 for a while...

So yeah, some of those cars you say still have some feel. Maybe? But as a whole, as a brand? Nah. Things are different. Everyone has sold out in some way or another. There was more "feel" in my Dad's E32 735i than in today's G80. Does that mean I want to drive an E32 daily? No, not really.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by DC2RtoCT9Atof87

I’ve been waiting for this car for at least a year now and I’m #1 at my dealer. We all know it’ll be fast… but will it be engaging is my big question?

Currently daily an CTR (and plan to daily the CS)- and I shit you not- the car is more 2x engaging than the OG M2 I had before. I don’t care what I drive, just as long as it’s fun and engaging. I’ve driven 997 GT3 and F430 Scud, and the CTR steering, manual tranny, and “feel” is the best out there south of a “real” sports car. Honestly would be unhappy dumping this car for another “numb” BMW (driven E36 street and track, E46 street, and OGM2/M2Comp street). Go ahead and scoff if you’ve driven one, but if you haven’t… do yourself a favor and try it out without bias.

Not gonna lie, the newest CTR definitely has my attention. But the nearly universal markups on them keeps me away. I do want to drive one though. The S2000 was my first love, and I've kinda, sorta been waiting for Honda to build something as special as that was.

[DC2RtoCT9Atof87]

Originally Posted by Studntloan

The E46 was a junk box,

Bmws might not be "raw" anymore but still one of the best,

The m4 gts actually felt extremely raw and light, I loved that car, probabaly one of the best things they've done in a long time,

Dont forget these are everyday cars, my new G80 does the everyday job perfectly, it handles insanely well and is extremely quick,

In fact its the first one I felt doesnt really even need that many mods outside of appearances.

If you want raw, buy an E30 M3 or a gt3

You cant build a car like the e46 today.

Originally Posted by vbb

Not gonna lie, the newest CTR definitely has my attention. But the nearly universal markups on them keeps me away. I do want to drive one though. The S2000 was my first love, and I've kinda, sorta been waiting for Honda to build something as special as that was.

I’m currently in an FK8, and if I had a shot at an FL5 <5k mark up… I may just go this direction instead of the CS.

I haven’t driven an S2k, but if you’ve driven an Evo I feel the CTR is a FWD version of it.

[YKIGI]

Originally Posted by vbb

Not gonna lie, the newest CTR definitely has my attention. But the nearly universal markups on them keeps me away. I do want to drive one though. The S2000 was my first love, and I've kinda, sorta been waiting for Honda to build something as special as that was.

Along with my Quadrifoglio, I still own a formula red S2K. I agree with you 100%

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

Along with my Quadrifoglio, I still own a formula red S2K. I agree with you 100%

You mean the Alfa that you've been (abrasively) trying to sell for 2 years?

[YKIGI]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

You mean the Alfa that you've been (abrasively) trying to sell for 2 years?

Only been trying to sell it during 2022. Moving to Spain when the nomad visa comes out and I can’t take it with me.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by woosahh

Shoulda designed something like the CSL tail ljghts imo

The M4 CSL is somewhat more exclusive and remember, the 3.0 CSL shares those bespoke tail lights with the CSL so they could split development costs. The M3 CS has nothing to share this with so I guess it makes sense from BMW's perspective to keep them as-is.

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by flsupraguy

Funny enough I have a 997 gt3 with a 4.1 stroker with a gt2rs clutch and flywheel. My cup car that I race is a 996 cup (manual trans) with rps clutch. It cracks me up when people try and convince me the manufacturer can't make the car with an adequate clutch to handle the power or say BuT tHe AuTo iS FaSTeR....... 99% of these comments are from dudes who never track their car, are obsessed with 0-60 times, and think cars and coffee is a sporting event....

Originally Posted by PLF69

Amen

I can answer this for you, because I believe since I commented on a manufacturer not being able to make a clutch that could handle the power. I'll include PLF in this one, because he agrees with you, and owns a lightweight M4.

Without sounding like an asshole, here. I'll apply a little bit of logic to your comment. First, 997 GT3, and a manual, at that. It's probably under 3,000 pounds. The M3 CS, is 3,920ish.

So, were talking about a 900 pound weight difference, and you've already identified that the clutch is kind of stock, but is really made for a higher hp car. You may as well park a Chevy Tahoe on the roof of the GT3.

Second, the 996 Cup car. Again, manual trans, probably even lighter, 2,600-2,700 pounds. 1,300-1,400 pounds lighter than the M3 CS. This also has an aftermarket clutch.

With an aftermarket clutch, 8.5" twin disk being the size you need to stay in, that you're convinced the manufacturers can make adequate enough to handle a 3,900 pound car, we can put 1,400 pounds worth the sandbags in the GT3, to see how well the clutch handles it.

BMW being an OEM, is selling a car that needs to last 100k miles before anything troubling happens to the car. The car will hold 5 adults. Lets load the M3 with 5 adults, and do what a customer would do, activate launch control.

How would you look as a manufacturer if customers were coming to you, saying, "I tried to launch the car and I burned the clutch up." The customer applying the same logic, by not accounting for 5 people being in the car. Now, you have a 3,900 pound car and 985 pounds worth the adults, average adult male weighing approx 197 pounds, tipping the scales at 4,885 pounds. Let's activate launch control, because this is a BMW.

Find me an OEM clutch, one that has a streetable clutch pedal, because, this is a customers family sedan, one that holds the power with the car fully loaded at the max GVWR door sill weight, and one that you don't have to jump off the driver's seat to depress. Oh, and it has to last 100k miles.

I'm not trying to convince you, but this is where "It cracks me up, when." Goes out the window.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The 8 speeds shifts as fast as a DCT can do full lock up for engine braking.

I had a 335i with the 6 speed auto. The only driving characteristic it was missing was a clutch pedal.

I have a friend that recently bought a M5 Competition. He cried about it not being a MT for about a day. Once he found out the 8 speed auto still has engine braking and does full lockup and isn't the slush box of the 1990s he hasn't complained since.

If he shifts with his paddles or gear lever I’m interested. If he’s driving auto, I’m tapped out. Manual is the most engaging with a DCT driven manually coming next for me. Auto is far behind. I’ve had an auto 335i and have a ZF8 X4 M40i. Strictly for cruising and not how I drive my M2 CS. I had a deposit on the M3 CS 2 years ago but pulled out when I saw the only transmission choice is auto. My preference only and I appreciate others drive differently or collect these cars - its their hard earned cash and I love hearing their experience with these cars - their speed, power and performance is more than impressive.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by DC2RtoCT9Atof87

I’m currently in an FK8, and if I had a shot at an FL5 <5k mark up… I may just go this direction instead of the CS.

I haven’t driven an S2k, but if you’ve driven an Evo I feel the CTR is a FWD version of it.

The S2000 was special. I had two of them. One of them had an aftermarket turbo kit, but really, the NA one was more fun. Perfect shifter feel, sublime to drive... I miss those cars. Funny you mention the Evo, because when I had my first S2000, my best friend and another really good friend both had Evos at the time (an Evo 8 and an Evo 9). Those were also fun, and more practical than my S2000. I have a lot of nostalgia for that era of cars. The new CTR on paper seems like a bit of a throwback to that era, but also modernized. I couldn't ever get with the looks of the FK8, but the FL5 grabbed my attention. I'm not going to trade my G82 for one, but I do like what I see and want to drive one someday.

[Martinjoa]

Got the call today from my dealership i can have their allocation at MSRP. Man these get pricey though even without markups. In my opinion the frozen white is the best color but im on the fence about ordering that price tag is a little eye watering coming into this cooling economy

[TheJerseyDon]

Originally Posted by Martinjoa

Got the call today from my dealership i can have their allocation at MSRP. Man these get pricey though even without markups. In my opinion the frozen white is the best color but im on the fence about ordering that price tag is a little eye watering coming into this cooling economy

Lucky, both dealers I use called me and cheapest was 25k over and order (color , options , ETC) is already placed!

[Scorp!on]

I would love to own one. But I can't justify 160k for an M3....
(Switzerland is way more expensive than the US, and 160K is with discount).

Shame....So I can only hope some of them will stay on the lot for a year or so and go then for a reasonable price (120k is justifyable).

I mean, would I be a millionair I'd pull the trigger. But yeah...just no.

I hope it will drop...because damn, it's a hell of a car..! But hopes are very low tbh.

[Studntloan]

Personally I think dealers will get more allocations after this first batch,

Lets see, the m5cs is looking better and better everyday

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

If he shifts with his paddles or gear lever I’m interested. If he’s driving auto, I’m tapped out. Manual is the most engaging with a DCT driven manually coming next for me. Auto is far behind. I’ve had an auto 335i and have a ZF8 X4 M40i. Strictly for cruising and not how I drive my M2 CS. I had a deposit on the M3 CS 2 years ago but pulled out when I saw the only transmission choice is auto. My preference only and I appreciate others drive differently or collect these cars - its their hard earned cash and I love hearing their experience with these cars - their speed, power and performance is more than impressive.

Paddle shifting.
Same with me. My 335i had xHP firmware with higher line pressures and faster shifts.

The only thing missing was the left foot.

1. Emissions requirements are driving them away from MT
2. Money shifts by 3rd parties. You have a customer that comes in and you check the car out and it's been over revved but the customer claimed they didn't do it. It was done by a valet and now the customer has no engine warranty.
3. Current ZF transmissions can shift like a DCT or manual.
4. Can be faster and can do "no lift shifting".

After having my 335i for a decade and using paddles, I can say driving a MT is still fun (2003 Mini S in the driveway) but I would never buy another MT car.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

None. But cars that stuck to their roots and still offer the feel people want. Some examples. BMW could have done this too. They sold out IMO

Porsche
Cadillac
MB AMG
Golf VR6
Civic Type R
Audi RS3
Mustang Shelby 350/500
Toyota GR86
And currently the Giulia Quadrifoglio is phenomenal

Now I really know you are full of ...






Surprises

[F80DK]

I drive a 997 GT3 RS and a 600 LTS
- yet I still want this CS…

[Itson451]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

I’m glad we agree fine sir. Only way to make one of these decent is throw more money at the already inflated sticker and fix their mistakes as they try and satisfy the masses on an M car!! Ludacris

Dude I get it but it was all apart of the plan from the start we bought an m3/m4 thinking it was the top trim , however there is now CS CSL etc. They gave us some of the performance but not all of it, so it's frustrating. They watered our cars down to save room for they other two versions. So right now I'm building a track car got the kw v4s and some bushings but I have a long way to go

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Itson451

Dude I get it but it was all apart of the plan from the start we bought an m3/m4 thinking it was the top trim , however there is now CS CSL etc. They gave us some of the performance but not all of it, so it's frustrating. They watered our cars down to save room for they other two versions. So right now I'm building a track car got the kw v4s and some bushings but I have a long way to go

lol the bastards didn't put the Turbo S engine in the Base 911

[jdhiro]

I don't want to dish on the G80 at all, I've just decided this is a generation I'm skipping. I also have an F80 CS and I know that car faced some of the same criticisms but I have to say...

That video was painful to watch. Almost every aspect of the M CEOs presentation was on the look of the color, and red outlines on the badges. He said something along the lines of "I guess you could almost call it a race car". And then he went on to, "it's also the perfect car for the street".

Uh, personally I like my CS because it's NOT the perfect car for the street. It's the "hardcore" one. People ask me why it's so loud, so bumpy, and why the shifts slam them into their seat. Because sportscar.

I think the messaging was good around the CSL, but it seems like they wimped out a bit on this CS.

Anyways, I hope it's as good of an upgrade to driving dynamics as the F80 CS was to the Comp!