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      03-18-2021, 08:51 AM   #1
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I drive the G82 with the F82 and E92

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I thought it would be fun to round up some friends, and with the help of Circle BMW in Eatontown, NJ, meet up with the new M4.

I owned an E92 for almost 10 years, and been around many F8Xs, including on the track at M School, so I know my way around both cars. After driving the G80, I loved it so much that I've placed an order.

But how does it compare to previous M Coupes?

https://machineswithsouls.com/2021/0...e-f82-and-e92/

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      03-18-2021, 09:04 AM   #2
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      03-18-2021, 10:20 AM   #3
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Quote from your blog: "If the E92 needed a push to feel like an M, and the F82 M4 always felt like one, this car splits the difference nicely."

For daily driving, I don't find I need to push the E92 hard or near speed limit for it to feel like a M (but of course better when pushed harder) vs the F10 M5 where it needs to exceed speed limit for it to be alive. Do you agree with this, and how does the G82 feel/drive?

Quote from article on Chris Harris: "See? He also owns three Peugeot 205 XSs and a pair of 205 Rallyes. No GTIs – too obvious. One of the 1.3 Rallyes – which was a French market rally homologation car with big carbs on a small engine – is in mint condition. Harris insists I hear the engine. “They are so immediate, so ultimately not fast, but so exciting at not going fast. That’s the key to motoring going forwards – being excited but not needing to go superfast.”"

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      03-18-2021, 10:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Quote from your blog: "If the E92 needed a push to feel like an M, and the F82 M4 always felt like one, this car splits the difference nicely."

For daily driving, I don't find I need to push the E92 hard or near speed limit for it to feel like a M (but of course better when pushed harder) vs the F10 M5 where it needs to exceed speed limit for it to be alive. Do you agree with this, and how does the G82 feel/drive?

Quote from article on Chris Harris: "See? He also owns three Peugeot 205 XSs and a pair of 205 Rallyes. No GTIs – too obvious. One of the 1.3 Rallyes – which was a French market rally homologation car with big carbs on a small engine – is in mint condition. Harris insists I hear the engine. “They are so immediate, so ultimately not fast, but so exciting at not going fast. That’s the key to motoring going forwards – being excited but not needing to go superfast.”"

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifest...car-collection
The F10 was very different, and I'd say that neither the G or E resemble it in regard to driving experience.

If you just drove the E forever without ever getting into a more modern BMW, you'd be like "wow, this is amazing"

When you go back to back it does start to show its age in chassis stiffness and lack of torque. You definitely don't need to go super fast to have fun in a car, but there is a crispness and immediate responsiveness in the new G that just isn't there in the E.
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      03-18-2021, 01:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
The F10 was very different, and I'd say that neither the G or E resemble it in regard to driving experience.

If you just drove the E forever without ever getting into a more modern BMW, you'd be like "wow, this is amazing"

When you go back to back it does start to show its age in chassis stiffness and lack of torque. You definitely don't need to go super fast to have fun in a car, but there is a crispness and immediate responsiveness in the new G that just isn't there in the E.
I will agree with this. I love my E, but driving the new cars feel so different. They are better in every way, but I think going back to the E which I only drive in the summer is more fun. It's not as fast, it doesn't have the TQ (wish it had a bit more) but its very analog and tons of fun.

Like the saying it's fun to drive a slow car fast, while the E9X Ms are not slow, they are not fast compared to the newer Ms which makes you work harder, and I love that.

And I will never get over how good the S65 sounds.

I have been driving a lot of M8's lately (yes I know different cars) and the power, and interior are to die for. I drive my buddy's F80 a lot and have track time with the F80. I can't wait to drive the G80, I am sure I will love it.
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      03-18-2021, 01:20 PM   #6
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There’s a saying, never drive a hero from the past. Time is ruthless and what was greatness at the time will eventually fall victim to old and slow in a back to back comparison. It’s so good to hear that the new car is picking up the torch of the former M3s of being great in the present.
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      03-18-2021, 01:28 PM   #7
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So if you had to pick one, which one has the most "soul"?
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      03-18-2021, 01:31 PM   #8
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So if you had to pick one, which one has the most "soul"?
It's not the F8X.

I need more time with the G. Mine arrives in May so I think I can answer that question better after a "getting to know you" period.

But at first glance it's the E. You love it for what it can't do as much as what it can.
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      03-18-2021, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
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It's not the F8X.

I need more time with the G. Mine arrives in May so I think I can answer that question better after a "getting to know you" period.

But at first glance it's the E. You love it for what it can't do as much as what it can.
Yeah my money is on the E9X - IMO a car can't be too effortless if we're talking about "soul" (well at least what I consider "soul"). The problem that both F8X and G8X have is they're just way too powerful & capable to wring out outside of a track - too effortless on the street
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      03-18-2021, 01:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
There's a saying, never drive a hero from the past. Time is ruthless and what was greatness at the time will eventually fall victim to old and slow in a back to back comparison. It's so good to hear that the new car is picking up the torch of the former M3s of being great in the present.
James May did a quick video on why he sold his Ferrari 308 I believe it was? Basically he got it out of his system and the car didn't interest him anymore, it was slower and felt old. It's a sad fate for these cars, especially if you're old enough to remember them as new.
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      03-18-2021, 01:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
James May did a quick video on why he sold his Ferrari 308 I believe it was? Basically he got it out of his system and the car didn't interest him anymore, it was slower and felt old. It's a sad fate for these cars, especially if you're old enough to remember them as new.
Agreed, I’m old enough to remember 80s cars as new. They still have more soul than anything built in the 2000s and always will (same with the S65 vs any FI powered car) but unless you are buying it as a car for nostalgic drives now and then it just can’t match the overall daily satisfaction of the newest cars.
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      03-18-2021, 02:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
James May did a quick video on why he sold his Ferrari 308 I believe it was? Basically he got it out of his system and the car didn't interest him anymore, it was slower and felt old. It's a sad fate for these cars, especially if you're old enough to remember them as new.
Agreed, I'm old enough to remember 80s cars as new. They still have more soul than anything built in the 2000s and always will (same with the S65 vs any FI powered car) but unless you are buying it as a car for nostalgic drives now and then it just can't match the overall daily satisfaction of the newest cars.
I test at drove a g80 yesterday and my current car is an e92 m3 comp. I've had pretty much every m3 and m coupé except the f80 m3 and going back to back from the g80 to the e92 it's pretty clear the ride quality in the e92 is superior.

The g80 feels similar to the f80's I've driven where the quest for faster lap times has lead to a ride on normal roads that's too firm IMO. I will still probably buy the car as it's best of the current competition but I wish bmw softened down comfort suspension so there was less vertical motion transmitted to the occupants on rough roads. Previous m3's struck a better balance between compliance and body control IMO.

To me despite how fast the m3 is on track it's still a road car and needs to work on the road. That's my biggest complaint about the car but oh well.
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      03-18-2021, 04:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I test at drove a g80 yesterday and my current car is an e92 m3 comp. I've had pretty much every m3 and m coupé except the f80 m3 and going back to back from the g80 to the e92 it's pretty clear the ride quality in the e92 is superior.

The g80 feels similar to the f80's I've driven where the quest for faster lap times has lead to a ride on normal roads that's too firm IMO. I will still probably buy the car as it's best of the current competition but I wish bmw softened down comfort suspension so there was less vertical motion transmitted to the occupants on rough roads. Previous m3's struck a better balance between compliance and body control IMO.

To me despite how fast the m3 is on track it's still a road car and needs to work on the road. That's my biggest complaint about the car but oh well.
I had E90 and E92 competition pack M3s and found their ride to be very brittle. Like road lane turtles would shake and rattle through the entire car and they felt very crashy going over minor potholes. However, undulations and bumps in the road were fine. If the G8x is crashy and brittle then I might be out.

The S65/S85 were pinnacle excitement for a road car but at a great cost in many measures and now they are dated in performance too. The rest of the E9x was pretty ho hum although I did personally like the interior and exterior design quite a lot. But the hydraulic steering and DCT attached to that motor is something else. I disliked the 6MT on the E9x because well, it was just not good.

I've had ownership time now in modern N20, N55, B58, and S58 powered cars as well as a couple FI Audis and when you move to those powertrains in modern packages, it's impossible for me to go back to NA as it would be just for the sound and that's not enough.
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      03-18-2021, 04:58 PM   #14
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The F8x biggest downfall is always going to be the steering feel. I've driven tons of new sports cars and the F8x is so off, it's horrible steering honestly, it's so weird. The car feels planted and is confidence inspiring and overall the chassis & feel makes up for everything but the actual steering is just off. I think the CS/GTS is better.

Rest of the car is perfect. Completely agree with the review. Sound is subjective, I'm a fan when you put the right exhaust on it.

Easily the best designed M car in my opinion out of all the f series and g series.
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      03-18-2021, 06:35 PM   #15
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The F8x biggest downfall is always going to be the steering feel. I've driven tons of new sports cars and the F8x is so off, it's horrible steering honestly, it's so weird. The car feels planted and is confidence inspiring and overall the chassis & feel makes up for everything but the actual steering is just off. I think the CS/GTS is better.

Rest of the car is perfect. Completely agree with the review. Sound is subjective, I'm a fan when you put the right exhaust on it.

Easily the best designed M car in my opinion out of all the f series and g series.
GTS coding helps steering but it doesn’t fundamentally change it, just makes it more sensitive on center and a little lighter at speed. Still very accurate but doesn’t tell you exactly where the front tires are. If you didn’t like stock, GTS is a small improvement but not a fundamental change, and I’m not sure G8X will be better if you’re looking for the front tires through the steering wheel. FWIW I like F8X steering so I’m certain I’ll also like G8X steering but I don’t see how either systems will replicate the nuances of hydraulic steering. If we look at the one guy who absolutely raves about the steering as the best part, it’s CH but he also liked F8X steering over E9X. Ive seen quite a few reviews where steering is still categorized as “dead”. What this tells me is G8X probably has better sensitivity and return to center calibration, but not a fundamentally different feel if that makes sense
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      03-18-2021, 07:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious View Post
I test at drove a g80 yesterday and my current car is an e92 m3 comp. I've had pretty much every m3 and m coupé except the f80 m3 and going back to back from the g80 to the e92 it's pretty clear the ride quality in the e92 is superior.

The g80 feels similar to the f80's I've driven where the quest for faster lap times has lead to a ride on normal roads that's too firm IMO. I will still probably buy the car as it's best of the current competition but I wish bmw softened down comfort suspension so there was less vertical motion transmitted to the occupants on rough roads. Previous m3's struck a better balance between compliance and body control IMO.

To me despite how fast the m3 is on track it's still a road car and needs to work on the road. That's my biggest complaint about the car but oh well.
I had E90 and E92 competition pack M3s and found their ride to be very brittle. Like road lane turtles would shake and rattle through the entire car and they felt very crashy going over minor potholes. However, undulations and bumps in the road were fine. If the G8x is crashy and brittle then I might be out.

The S65/S85 were pinnacle excitement for a road car but at a great cost in many measures and now they are dated in performance too. The rest of the E9x was pretty ho hum although I did personally like the interior and exterior design quite a lot. But the hydraulic steering and DCT attached to that motor is something else. I disliked the 6MT on the E9x because well, it was just not good.

I've had ownership time now in modern N20, N55, B58, and S58 powered cars as well as a couple FI Audis and when you move to those powertrains in modern packages, it's impossible for me to go back to NA as it would be just for the sound and that's not enough.
The g80 doesn't crash on bumps at all. It's well damped over sharp impacts it's more depressions and small humps in the road where the entire body seems to track the road surface rather than the wheel moving up and down and leaving the body isolated.

It's not harsh or brittle feeling it just transmits a lot of vertical motion into the cabin I feel.

I still am shopping for the car and it won't put me off buying it as it's a trend among all newer sports cars but I still don't like it.
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      03-18-2021, 08:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
James May did a quick video on why he sold his Ferrari 308 I believe it was? Basically he got it out of his system and the car didn't interest him anymore, it was slower and felt old. It's a sad fate for these cars, especially if you're old enough to remember them as new.
Agreed, I'm old enough to remember 80s cars as new. They still have more soul than anything built in the 2000s and always will (same with the S65 vs any FI powered car) but unless you are buying it as a car for nostalgic drives now and then it just can't match the overall daily satisfaction of the newest cars.
I test at drove a g80 yesterday and my current car is an e92 m3 comp. I've had pretty much every m3 and m coupé except the f80 m3 and going back to back from the g80 to the e92 it's pretty clear the ride quality in the e92 is superior.

The g80 feels similar to the f80's I've driven where the quest for faster lap times has lead to a ride on normal roads that's too firm IMO. I will still probably buy the car as it's best of the current competition but I wish bmw softened down comfort suspension so there was less vertical motion transmitted to the occupants on rough roads. Previous m3's struck a better balance between compliance and body control IMO.

To me despite how fast the m3 is on track it's still a road car and needs to work on the road. That's my biggest complaint about the car but oh well.
We've had different experiences in the G then. I rode in it from NY to CT for over 2 hours and it was very comfortable. Putting the car in SPORT mode stiffens the ride but, it's an M car. Leave it in comfort and it's very nice.

When I drive it myself, there is a better sense that everything is connected and nothing felt harsh to me. I liken it to a mini M5.
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      03-18-2021, 09:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
GTS coding helps steering but it doesn’t fundamentally change it, just makes it more sensitive on center and a little lighter at speed. Still very accurate but doesn’t tell you exactly where the front tires are. If you didn’t like stock, GTS is a small improvement but not a fundamental change, and I’m not sure G8X will be better if you’re looking for the front tires through the steering wheel. FWIW I like F8X steering so I’m certain I’ll also like G8X steering but I don’t see how either systems will replicate the nuances of hydraulic steering. If we look at the one guy who absolutely raves about the steering as the best part, it’s CH but he also liked F8X steering over E9X. Ive seen quite a few reviews where steering is still categorized as “dead”. What this tells me is G8X probably has better sensitivity and return to center calibration, but not a fundamentally different feel if that makes sense
My guess is that you are spot on. As much I want the G8X steering feel to be great I have no such illusions. CH is not just a track day driver he is a race car driver and as such don’t car much of traditional steering feedback. He just wants a precision tool and that I believe it is. I suspect the steering is excellent and superior to the F8X in terms of response, speed, precision and lock to lock linearity but as for feedback from the road surface? I have no expectations, zero. I learnt to be ok with that though, no love but ok
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      03-18-2021, 09:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
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My guess is that you are spot on. As much I want the G8X steering feel to be great I have no such illusions. CH is not just a track day driver he is a race car driver and as such don’t car much of traditional steering feedback. He just wants a precision tool and that I believe it is. I suspect the steering is excellent and superior to the F8X in terms of response, speed, precision and lock to lock linearity but as for feedback from the road surface? I have no expectations, zero. I learnt to be ok with that though, no love but ok
Exactly! It's precise but doesn't have a lot of road feel. I too have learned to be okay with that, especially since F8X is always giving constant feedback through the chassis when you want it... and also when you don't. What I really dislike about F8X steering though, is the artificial weight it has in sport/sport+. It seems like G8X has remedied that with a better calibrated rack and I think there will be more than enough feedback through the chassis to get over the "feel" hump. I also suspect G8X will give more chassis feel and be a tad less comfortable than some people think as the rear subframe is still bolted directly to the chassis - I've pieced together through various reviews and minor comments made during them that it's still a busy/stiff ride but much better damped (damping also being a weak point of normal F8Xs)
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      03-18-2021, 10:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmf8x View Post
The F8x biggest downfall is always going to be the steering feel. I've driven tons of new sports cars and the F8x is so off, it's horrible steering honestly, it's so weird. The car feels planted and is confidence inspiring and overall the chassis & feel makes up for everything but the actual steering is just off. I think the CS/GTS is better.

Rest of the car is perfect. Completely agree with the review. Sound is subjective, I'm a fan when you put the right exhaust on it.

Easily the best designed M car in my opinion out of all the f series and g series.
GTS coding helps steering but it doesn't fundamentally change it, just makes it more sensitive on center and a little lighter at speed. Still very accurate but doesn't tell you exactly where the front tires are. If you didn't like stock, GTS is a small improvement but not a fundamental change, and I'm not sure G8X will be better if you're looking for the front tires through the steering wheel. FWIW I like F8X steering so I'm certain I'll also like G8X steering but I don't see how either systems will replicate the nuances of hydraulic steering. If we look at the one guy who absolutely raves about the steering as the best part, it's CH but he also liked F8X steering over E9X. Ive seen quite a few reviews where steering is still categorized as "dead". What this tells me is G8X probably has better sensitivity and return to center calibration, but not a fundamentally different feel if that makes sense
Do you have competition pack?

Also I don't even mean hydraulic steering.

The Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T has the best electric steering I've ever felt, and the new g20 330i comes close.

I've driven a giulia 2.0T and a F82 M4 back to back very hard extensively. Obviously the M4 is in a completely different class of capability, but when it comes to steering, any normal driver would be able to tell the giulia just feels so much better.

Also While I think the new c63s has inferior overall handling, the steering is better. The one I drove was lowered so maybe that just made the car feel better, but while you can definitely feel it's weight, the steering is direct.

Also I have noticed that in comfort the f82 steering feels way better than sport plus; as per Chris Harris.
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      03-18-2021, 11:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmf8x View Post
Do you have competition pack?

Also I don't even mean hydraulic steering.

The Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T has the best electric steering I've ever felt, and the new g20 330i comes close.

I've driven a giulia 2.0T and a F82 M4 back to back very hard extensively. Obviously the M4 is in a completely different class of capability, but when it comes to steering, any normal driver would be able to tell the giulia just feels so much better.
Nope base - but the specific feeling (or lack thereof) in steering calibration should be consistent across trim levels.

I keep hearing about Giulia steering! Is it close to the G20 steering? I just had one as a loaner earlier this week, and it is noticeably better than F30 was but felt more distant than when I got back into my F82. But on the whole, BMW EPS has gotten better in the normal models that I've driven
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      03-18-2021, 11:10 PM   #22
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I never warmed up to the steering in the F80. I'm sure the G80 is improved. As others alluded to the E90 will be probably the most "soulful" of the three due to its hydraulic steering and lower limits that can be explored even when driving around town. But the steering is definitely not as quick/precise as newer cars, and torque was always an issue, no denying that.
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