[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

First I read for years that the ZF is 'as good as a dual clutch' in all kinds of cars. Like the Quattroformaggio. And then the M3 gets what is likely the best implementation and it sucks.
Regardless, there is an easy solution to the loss of the DCT: manual!

ok lol i'm italian and I love Alfa (you know, italian and emotional stuff and such things) but this is the first time I read this and im literally in tears right now from laughing !

good one ! thanks for the laugh !

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

ok lol i'm italian and I love Alfa (you know, italian and emotional stuff and such things) but this is the first time I read this and im literally in tears right now from laughing !

good one ! thanks for the laugh !

I'm from Spain, so we're originally almost neighbors!!

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by killhour

I love that they still make it with the manual but the entire point of the G80 is that it's a more liveable daily than the F80. So if it's going to be my daily, I'm going to go auto with the AWD for sure.

You find your F80 to be a less than acceptable daily?

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I voted yes but only because the reviews would have to be pretty poor to deter me from a car I may be interested in. I'm still of the personal belief that you shouldn't buy a car based on someone else's review because cars are a personal thing and the car has to make you feel happy to drive it and performance numbers don't always make for great ownership experience. I'm very happy with the ZF8 in my X3M so Chris Harris mentioning a slight delay has no bearing on my ownership as I'm not driving on a track daily where a millisecond matters to me. A lot of people made their decisions a long time ago and either like or hate the car and simply use little bits of reviews as confirmation bias as we are already seeing in the review thread so at the end of the day the biggest thing to pull from the reviews is that the car is great and not a stinker but like every single car ever made it's not perfect and not for everyone.

It would have to be a 4 speed manual to give me even a second's pause.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

People here making out like the DCT is some rough shifting race gearbox like an SMG or some other single clutch sequential race box
It's a few little quirks that are easy to get used to, sometimes you feel a little thump in low gears as you're slowing down and the car is still cold. It's not a harsh kick or something. It feels a little awkward at first at low speed because of the clutch engagement, rather than the torque converter giving you that push as you ease off the brakes.
Otherwise it's just like any auto and shifts seamlessly in regular driving.

Perfectly livable. I've commuted in a DCT car for years, no issues in cities or traffic - an E92 335i with DCT and now and F82 M4.

It only kicks hard in the most aggressive setting under hard acceleration, which is where the fun is at.

I absolutely love the DCT. So yeah, I'm disappointed that BMW has phased it out. I don't care for the manual. I loved older manual cars but in high performance cars at this level, I'd rather have a fast transmission that gives me that "race car" feel.

I completely agree with you, but it I think you and I and other DCT lovers / enthusiasts are calibrated to and embrace the idiosyncrasies of a DCT, whether subtle or not. To the majority of buyers of this car (or any M car really), they are just going to put put it around town and use it as a daily driver in auto mode, in which case the idiosyncrasies of the DCT start to look a lot like drawbacks. It’s as simple as having a torque converter for movements from a stop is infinitely less fussy than actuating a clutch with the throttle pedal. I love that DCT idiosyncrasy but normal people probably won’t. Yes there is the fact that ZF8 makes the car less exciting and waters it down in the 340 direction but that’s in keeping with refining the experience. I think the conclusion here is if you want a car that’s more lively and “race car” feeling, well F8X still exists and can be had for a relative bargain.

[d001]

So, as having no history/credibility on this forum, but well sampled M and others, I will contribute here.
Drove a 6MT M4 last night- and will only touch on the trans compared to other manuals (haven't driven the Comp ZF8). The 6MT is not up to par with the rest of the car. It is rubbery, though not as much as prev iterations. I daily an old zhp and the M4's transmission is slightly better in terms of rigidity, gates action, and throws. Nowhere near cayman, current miata, 1LE camaro. Clutch was easy to operate, rev match works good, pedal box was classic BMW goodness. I would say for the sake of offering a manual in this segment- good option, but it shows BMW has spend little to no money to improve it. Just my experience, I welcome questions.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

You find your F80 to be a less than acceptable daily?

You should try the H80, it's even more livable than the G80!

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by akkando

You should try the H80, it's even more livable than the G80!

Agreed. The G80 is gonna get us all laid too much with it's aggressive styling.

[Jproos]

Originally Posted by d001

So, as having no history/credibility on this forum, but well sampled M and others, I will contribute here.
Drove a 6MT M4 last night- and will only touch on the trans compared to other manuals (haven't driven the Comp ZF8). The 6MT is not up to par with the rest of the car. It is rubbery, though not as much as prev iterations. I daily an old zhp and the M4's transmission is slightly better in terms of rigidity, gates action, and throws. Nowhere near cayman, current miata, 1LE camaro. Clutch was easy to operate, rev match works good, pedal box was classic BMW goodness. I would say for the sake of offering a manual in this segment- good option, but it shows BMW has spend little to no money to improve it. Just my experience, I welcome questions.

I would sort of expect that they wouldn't have put much effort into the 6MT since I think it's pretty clearly not got much of a future.

[nathanm4]

I have a 6MT G82. Having driven it for over 1,200 miles, I got tired of traffic jams and constantly needing to changing gears manually. Computer does it way better and I get to keep both hands on the steering wheel when making aggressive maneuvers.

Now I prefer AT.

If I were given another chance, I would wait for Competition with Xdrive.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit/Update:
I'm enjoying manual again after some aggressive shifts on highways

I just had to get used to it.

The last time I had a manual was 6 years ago

[OperationSunset]

Originally Posted by nathanm4

I have a 6MT G82. Having driven it for over 1,200 miles, I got tired of traffic jams and constantly needing to changing gears manually. Computer does it way better and I get to keep both hands on the steering wheel when making aggressive maneuvers.

Now I prefer AT.

If I were given another chance, I would wait for Competition with Xdrive.

^This. I drive an M2C 6MT and the shifter feel isn't great, especially compared to the ND Miata. I'm thinking that for the G80/82 if and when I order one, will be an AWD Comp with the 8ZF.

[Stunnerable]

Originally Posted by Jproos

I'm a bit frustrated with the lack of review videos for the manual.

Yes!! I mean.. come on!!! I don't care at all about any flappy paddle performance car if a manual option is offered. Get to it reviewers.

[seis-speed]

There were virtually no reviews of the manual from the journalists.

Not offering a manual in the UK market eliminated all the best reviewers from giving us any feedback. Doug drove one and there were a few glimpses here and there, but nothing that gives me any feedback. Hopefully Jason Cammisa can get a manual and other NA reviewers.

I would take an awful 6MT over an automatic, so my opinion has not changed one bit #6mt4life.

[dave12285]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

People here making out like the DCT is some rough shifting race gearbox like an SMG or some other single clutch sequential race box
It's a few little quirks that are easy to get used to, sometimes you feel a little thump in low gears as you're slowing down and the car is still cold. It's not a harsh kick or something. It feels a little awkward at first at low speed because of the clutch engagement, rather than the torque converter giving you that push as you ease off the brakes.
Otherwise it's just like any auto and shifts seamlessly in regular driving.

Perfectly livable. I've commuted in a DCT car for years, no issues in cities or traffic - an E92 335i with DCT and now and F82 M4.

It only kicks hard in the most aggressive setting under hard acceleration, which is where the fun is at.

I absolutely love the DCT. So yeah, I'm disappointed that BMW has phased it out. I don't care for the manual. I loved older manual cars but in high performance cars at this level, I'd rather have a fast transmission that gives me that "race car" feel.

It's so funny that you characterize it this way. I don't drive my CS with a DCT daily but several times a week and also do mundane tasks in it at times, enough to comment on it's livability. It's especially at the top of my mind now from watching all of the G80 reviews talk about how terrible and jerky the DCT in the F80 was. Part of me thinks that maybe there was some software tuning they did on the CS that makes it smoother than the standard or comp F80, my other F80 was a manual so I wouldn't know. But I ultimately think there are two reasons people feel this way, one I know because it was an issue in my driving style I had to correct while the other is an assumption. To be clear on where I stand, I think the DCT is sharp and crisp, not quite as good as some Porsche PDK cars I've driven but still a great transmission. That said, it's very, very civil. To the point where I changed my M1 button to the most aggressive shift setting after about 5k miles as I just wasn't feeling engaged enough because the shifts were so damn smooth.

Back to the reason I think people think the DCT is too rough/jerky in the F80, leading them to get an auto:

1. They drive it in manual mode like it's an automatic from a stop and at low speeds. I did this for the first few drives before I realized that if I use the throttle like I'm slipping a clutch the car is smooth and easy to drive around the city. If you drive it like an automatic it will definitely jerk around and lurch.

2. This is a guess- people are driving it in automatic mode and it has more harsh characteristics than they're used to in an automatic. I've never driven the car in auto mode which is why this is a guess.

Ultimately, I really enjoy the DCT in the CS as it's easier to stay in boost and have more seamless forward momentum. If the higher power model was a DCT I'd probably think about checking that box. Because it's not, I'll be back in the manual transmission club if I get a G80 after my CS.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by nathanm4

I have a 6MT G82. Having driven it for over 1,200 miles, I got tired of traffic jams and constantly needing to changing gears manually. Computer does it way better and I get to keep both hands on the steering wheel when making aggressive maneuvers.

Now I prefer AT.

If I were given another chance, I would wait for Competition with Xdrive.

I usually lurk around, but the last part of this comment resonated with me. I've been driving the 6mt for about 2k miles. I really enjoy it. However, I think the 6mt is the nostalgic option. If you like to hoon around often, then I can see having an option that allows both hands on the wheel. Things can go sideways quickly and a manual gearbox is a distraction. My advice is to think hard about how you like using your cars and pick accordingly.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Jproos

I would sort of expect that they wouldn't have put much effort into the 6MT since I think it's pretty clearly not got much of a future.

They developed this 6MT for the life cycle of this car. That's 6-7 years that they have to live with the product. They aren't, you know, working to advance their technology like with ACC to be used on future cars, but they aren't gonna phone it in either.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

The end of Doug demuro's review where he revealed he gave the 2018 M5 a 10/10 in handling and the 2018 M3 CS only an 8 out of 10....

He actually gave a 7 for handling to the M3 CS. After that I stopped reading his reviews. He appreciates totally different things in a car than myself.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

Thats where I stopped reading his reviews. He appreciates totally different things in a car than myself.

That's a good way to put it. A lot of folk put too much into one particular reviewer or another. We all look for slightly different things in cars. My own requirements and opinions are heavily shaped by being a dedicated one-car human (my SO also has a car, but we both work and we can't easily just borrow the other car). My garage fits only the two cars, our driveway is short and seriously steep, my work life is very busy, and while I can do a few things on my car, I'm not a functional mechanic.

A lot of our favorite reviewers have the room in their lives to really treasure older more analog cars very simply because it doesn't matter on a daily basis if their Costco run will fit into any particular car they have, or if one of them is broken for a few weeks.

So one car has to do pretty much everything I need it to, and Alfa reliability is too much of a risk.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

He actually gave a 7 for handling to the M3 CS. After that I stopped reading his reviews. He appreciates totally different things in a car than myself.

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but when I test drove the CS I really WANTED to hate it. I am a 6MT driver, through and through. However, at the time the F80 was out of production 7 months and there were exactly 0.00 unsold 6MT's in the country. I was 30k miles over my lease and couldn't buy it out.

I test drove the car in April, 2019 and it just so happened to be f**king hailing at the time. It swayed me enough to do a 2 year lease and get out of a 6MT for the first time in my life.

I had my base F80 on M Performance Springs and I had the CS and GTS diff and damping settings coded in, etc.

Car felt night and day even versus a comp. Even now, other than a GT3 I've driven 3 x, it is the best handling car I've ever driven and I expect the G80 to be an improvement in many respects.

[lch6257]

Test drove an Alpine White today and the 6MT was so damn fun and the car so dead sexy I bought it. On the spot. Cannot wait to bring her home once the funds clear investment account. Be warned, dealers are well aware of how "hot" there new M3 is they are pushing for $$$$ over msrp. I threatened to walk out and they backed down. I have a 2012 E93 that remains in my stable because she's not for sale....

[Pantagathus]

Originally Posted by lch6257

Test drove an Alpine White today and the 6MT was so damn fun and the car so dead sexy I bought it. On the spot. Cannot wait to bring her home once the funds clear investment account. Be warned, dealers are well aware of how "hot" there new M3 is they are pushing for $$$$ over msrp. I threatened to walk out and they backed down. I have a 2012 E93 that remains in my stable because she's not for sale....

I picked up my 6MT yesterday and it is super fun. Clutch still feels a little bit like it has to get broken in, and there's way too much travel in it, definitely going to put in a clutch stop shortly

[lch6257]

Originally Posted by Pantagathus

I picked up my 6MT yesterday and it is super fun. Clutch still feels a little bit like it has to get broken in, and there's way too much travel in it, definitely going to put in a clutch stop shortly

I will be doing a clutch stop as well soon. Right after the carbon tint shop. It's hot in south florida.