[Oliver1]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

with a huge push for more environmental friendly engines. one would think that the old style engines would be sought after.

my problem is that i see gas become more expensive, and at some point not available at a mass level like it is today.

this generation went turbo, next goes electric and turbo, next goes full electric.

I guess you haven't heard the news - GM boosting production of big SUVs and trucks. There is enough liquid fuel sources to power ICEs for a hundred years. The electrics would be a nice addition to the ASS for stop and go traffic but they need to leave a few models with just an ICE for power.

[LDSM]

I didn't think hybrid power would hit the M3/M4 this soon,
but it's been discussed on here before that turbos were simply just a stepping stone to electric/ hybrid power (for all manufacturers and car types not just sports cars).
But it takes some time for the technology and public opinion to get where it needs to be.

Gasoline engines are on the chopping block, 20 years was the estimate, one of the points I remember reading was auto manufactures know the end of gasoline power is near, that's why we're seeing these big power numbers (ex. the hellcat) Sort of like a last hurrah for gas power.

[AW92]

Going hybrid doesn't always necessary require more weight. Few things to consider:

1) The use of carbon inner structure not only reduce weight, but also allow for more efficient manufacturing processes, which can contribute to the reduction of cost. (example: new 7 series)
2) The use of the electric motor to torque-fill the drivetrain allows of the elimination of the traditional transmission (MT, DCT, auto, etc). Also reduction cost, weight, and complexity. (example: Koenigsegg Regera or Honda Accord Hybrid).
3) Advancement in electric drivetrain technology will reduce the size the electric motor and the number of battery cells required to output the same kWh. (Tesla)

We sort of about this car today already, and that's the i8. It will be in the M car price range, with better performance and efficiency. Hopefully in a few years of time. Great time it is in the automotive industry right now, can't wait to see what other surprises they have in their sleeves.

[Desert_Fox]

If you lease your cars, this is probably good news. I'm sure driving ability will stay the same, and fuel consumption will noticeably go down. However if you buy your cars, this is a horrible turn of events. These hybrid powertrains will inevitably fail and cost a small fortune to replace at the dealer. Good business move for BMW, make dealers happy by increasing servicing revenue.

I suspect 20 years from now, clean E46 and E92 M3's will command an extremely handsome premium.

[e92_m3]

Originally Posted by solstice

The downside is that it's likely the end of MTs in M3s, I don't think they can make them work well with hybrids but I could be wrong.

BMW can definitely pull off something like that for sure since the current honda cr-z is a hybrid that comes with either an auto or a 6-speed manual tranny.

[Diver]

Ultra supercars with 1000+ hp have hybrid drive, but cost around $1mm. If this could be put in a $75,000 car, it would be an achievement.

[Powaup]

Ha! Called it!!!

[ska///235i]

Oh Fuk No!

[Imola.ZHP]

Instant electric torque is SO addicting.

We sold my ZHP 4 months ago and bought an i3, 3.5 months later we're looking at selling our CRV and getting a second i3. The future is electric.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by LDSM

I didn't think hybrid power would hit the M3/M4 this soon,
but it's been discussed on here before that turbos were simply just a stepping stone to electric/ hybrid power (for all manufacturers and car types not just sports cars).
But it takes some time for the technology and public opinion to get where it needs to be.

Gasoline engines are on the chopping block, 20 years was the estimate, one of the points I remember reading was auto manufactures know the end of gasoline power is near, that's why we're seeing these big power numbers (ex. the hellcat) Sort of like a last hurrah for gas power.

i dont think we are seeing high powered engine because its the last hurrah or something. Its simply where we are at with engines in 2015. engines are not getting less powerful as time goes on.

the supercharged v8 engines over in the muscle car world is where its suppose to be. because GM made the Zl1 with 580, then ford needed to top that with 660HP, then dodge wanted to play so it made 700HP. the next GT500 will probably have around 700HP also.

but I really dont know how they are going to make affordable cars to the point where they have 800-1000HP. its just to unsafe.

[M3 Geezer]

Puleeeze don't do this!

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP

Instant electric torque is SO addicting.

We sold my ZHP 4 months ago and bought an i3, 3.5 months later we're looking at selling our CRV and getting a second i3. The future is electric.

Agree 100%.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Fine with me as long as it performs. I like that they keep trying to innovate while trying keeping the spirit of the model intact

+1

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

What about turning or stopping?

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You should ALWAYS buy snow tires, AWD or not.

'nilla, please.

[Falafel Combo]

If it's good enough for Porsche, McLaren and Ferrari, I am sure BMW owners will learn to make do with this horrid, inferior, good for nothing technology.

SUV M cars? Sedans? Turbo charged? V8? DCT? Electric power steering? The ///M brand has always evolved to exceed both the needs of its clients and the expectations of its given era.

And when they do, they change the game for everyone else, yet again.

[BoosTonian]

Bmw car gatherings (bimmerfest)..with no noise.

That is all.

[STooK]

Keeping my e93 forever so don't care if the next gen runs on water or fairy dust. I've driven the i3 and the P85D and electric cars are definitely the way of the future. So much fun just punching it from a dig and getting thrown back into the seat.

[terminator335i]

These are how current bmw m3/4 cars are always based on:
M5 generation cars come out before the newer m3/4.
E30 m3s were high revving NA inline 4 cylinders based on the same platform E36 M5 NA inline 6, but minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

E36 and E46 m3s were high revving NA inline 6 cylinders based on the same platform E39 M5 NA V8 but minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

E90/92/93 m3s were high revving NA v8 cylinders based on the same platform E60 M5 NA V10 minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

F80/82/83 m3s and M4s are currently for the first time using Forced induction "twin Turbo" inline 6cylinders based on the same platform F10 M5 Forced induction twin turbo V8 minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series). This is because Bmw has to "Get with the time", because their philosophy has always been that they believe "Forced induction are a cheap way of delivering performance", but had to resort to this.

So for the next generation "G Series" M3/4, look at the next generation "G Series" M5.

My guess is that the G Series M5/6 will keep their Twin turbo V8 S63 engine but incorporate two electric engines in the front axle (for a supposed Awd drivetrain) and this means the G Series M3/4 will also keep their same engine S55 and also incorporate two electric motors to power the car (for an Awd launch) but can be switched off for Rwd tracks.


Everyone has to accept that the world is changing. Oil prices are just going to rise significantly after 2020, global green house emission will restrict car manufacturers in their emission and governments will tax them heavily based on emission and engine displacements. This means the once "golden" period of naturally aspirated 6/8/10/12 cylinder motors will be replaced by smaller engine capacity with forced induction and electric motors (hybrid) setup before the complete phase out of gasoline cars to fully electric cars. Look at Formula 1 for example, the once beautiful high pitched NA V10/12 engines are now a hybrid twin turbo v6 with electric motors. Like it or not, this is how it will unfold.

[Tracyis300]

This is so that they can pass the strict regulations coming up in the years?

The real future is in hydrogen/electric power! As of the gas engines of today can be converted to use hydrogen or both gas & hydrogen.
But this is still interesting to see how they will use hybrid technology?!

[DCG]

Gg

[sycd]

Plug-in hybrid is all right I guess, like the upcoming plug-in hybrid X5. You still have the option of driving with a real engine unlike the 100% electric which are not practical for long-distance travel.

But really you have to wonder about the real environment impact given the tiny market share of our cars, seems to be more of a gimmick/bragging right thing to me.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Well articulated...The road to where this is all going is right before us....At least as far as BMW goes.

And while we may still see a blip here or there regarding big suvs, as emission controls get more stringent (a lot more btw) those will go by the wayside except for the working man who needs em. Not mom @ Whole Foods.

I agree that the golden age of the gasoline engine is behind us. Well behind us and we're seeing its evolution right before our eyes..

Originally Posted by terminator335i

These are how current bmw m3/4 cars are always based on:
M5 generation cars come out before the newer m3/4.
E30 m3s were high revving NA inline 4 cylinders based on the same platform E36 M5 NA inline 6, but minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

E36 and E46 m3s were high revving NA inline 6 cylinders based on the same platform E39 M5 NA V8 but minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

E90/92/93 m3s were high revving NA v8 cylinders based on the same platform E60 M5 NA V10 minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series).

F80/82/83 m3s and M4s are currently for the first time using Forced induction "twin Turbo" inline 6cylinders based on the same platform F10 M5 Forced induction twin turbo V8 minus 2 cylinders because they were lower specs M cars (3 series vs 5 series). This is because Bmw has to "Get with the time", because their philosophy has always been that they believe "Forced induction are a cheap way of delivering performance", but had to resort to this.

So for the next generation "G Series" M3/4, look at the next generation "G Series" M5.

My guess is that the G Series M5/6 will keep their Twin turbo V8 S63 engine but incorporate two electric engines in the front axle (for a supposed Awd drivetrain) and this means the G Series M3/4 will also keep their same engine S55 and also incorporate two electric motors to power the car (for an Awd launch) but can be switched off for Rwd tracks.


Everyone has to accept that the world is changing. Oil prices are just going to rise significantly after 2020, global green house emission will restrict car manufacturers in their emission and governments will tax them heavily based on emission and engine displacements. This means the once "golden" period of naturally aspirated 6/8/10/12 cylinder motors will be replaced by smaller engine capacity with forced induction and electric motors (hybrid) setup before the complete phase out of gasoline cars to fully electric cars. Look at Formula 1 for example, the once beautiful high pitched NA V10/12 engines are now a hybrid twin turbo v6 with electric motors. Like it or not, this is how it will unfold.