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      01-15-2021, 10:13 PM   #45
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I can't help but think this growth in tyre width between generations is compensation for needing to carry more weight and therefore manage understeer.

It is no doubt going to be a faster car than previous M3/4's on track but is it going to be so at the expense of being an enjoyable road car? I.e. tram lining, aqua planing, being more difficult to park with poor steering feedback?

Lotus Elise has 175/55/R16 fronts and 225/45/R17 rears and carries unbelievable corner speed on a track as well as giving great steering feel, a result of its low weight and being mid-engined.

Mclaren 720S too has a relatively narrow 245/35/R19 on the front and 305/30/R20 rear and is known for good steering feel as well as having crazy power. Both cars have a philosophy of managing their weight carefully and are on bespoke platforms that enable this goal.

By contrast the Camaro ZL1 1LE is a monster with 305 front sections tyres and owners talk about the difficulties as a road car that brings (admittedly its a track car not on a bespoke platform).

Big, wide front tyres don't always make a great road car and can bring their own compromises that need to be engineered around.

I am looking forward to reviews on the G8x to understand what these trade offs are in the real world as a road car.
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      01-16-2021, 01:31 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
I can't help but think this growth in tyre width between generations is compensation for needing to carry more weight and therefore manage understeer.

It is no doubt going to be a faster car than previous M3/4's on track but is it going to be so at the expense of being an enjoyable road car? I.e. tram lining, aqua planing, being more difficult to park with poor steering feedback?

Lotus Elise has 175/55/R16 fronts and 225/45/R17 rears and carries unbelievable corner speed on a track as well as giving great steering feel, a result of its low weight and being mid-engined.

Mclaren 720S too has a relatively narrow 245/35/R19 on the front and 305/30/R20 rear and is known for good steering feel as well as having crazy power. Both cars have a philosophy of managing their weight carefully and are on bespoke platforms that enable this goal.

By contrast the Camaro ZL1 1LE is a monster with 305 front sections tyres and owners talk about the difficulties as a road car that brings (admittedly its a track car not on a bespoke platform).

Big, wide front tyres don't always make a great road car and can bring their own compromises that need to be engineered around.

I am looking forward to reviews on the G8x to understand what these trade offs are in the real world as a road car.
I think the increased width is for the lateral grip numbers game and lap times. I am pretty sure that 255 was already more than wide enough for the front axle for street use, even with the weight increase. For sure, there are real downsides to massively wide tires on the street.
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      01-16-2021, 02:27 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
I can't help but think this growth in tyre width between generations is compensation for needing to carry more weight and therefore manage understeer.

It is no doubt going to be a faster car than previous M3/4's on track but is it going to be so at the expense of being an enjoyable road car? I.e. tram lining, aqua planing, being more difficult to park with poor steering feedback?

Lotus Elise has 175/55/R16 fronts and 225/45/R17 rears and carries unbelievable corner speed on a track as well as giving great steering feel, a result of its low weight and being mid-engined.

Mclaren 720S too has a relatively narrow 245/35/R19 on the front and 305/30/R20 rear and is known for good steering feel as well as having crazy power. Both cars have a philosophy of managing their weight carefully and are on bespoke platforms that enable this goal.

By contrast the Camaro ZL1 1LE is a monster with 305 front sections tyres and owners talk about the difficulties as a road car that brings (admittedly its a track car not on a bespoke platform).

Big, wide front tyres don't always make a great road car and can bring their own compromises that need to be engineered around.

I am looking forward to reviews on the G8x to understand what these trade offs are in the real world as a road car.
I think the increased width is for the lateral grip numbers game and lap times. I am pretty sure that 255 was already more than wide enough for the front axle for street use, even with the weight increase. For sure, there are real downsides to massively wide tires on the street.
Agree.

The F8x was generally seen as slightly wild at launch and BMW tamped it down with software updates over the years and then revised some hardware and released the competition pack.

These changes improved the car (I did the iStep update and it certainly reduced the spikey-handling). Reviewers of early cars complained about this "spikey" behaviour in the wet and were more complementary of later models (even none comp models) so it worked. Maybe BMW took an exciting calibration too far for the initial launch and then gently rolled it back?

My prediction for the G8x reviews is probably the opposite of what was written for the F8x:

"+ new M3 is a much faster machine with nicer interior and tech that grabs more attention...

- ...but it's ride and handling limits are too high to enjoy on the road."
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      01-16-2021, 02:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Great video, very informative.

Now what the F are these beautiful colors? Brooklyn and oxide?
Oxyde gray definitely for the M3, but I'm not sure that the M4 has the Brooklyn one. Brooklyn seems to have more light blue shades, this is more "rigid" in the colour tint. Looking at it, it seems to be something about "space gray" or something like that, but as it is presented inside a Factory, it's probably only beacause of the fact that the scenario is darker than in the open air.
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      01-16-2021, 04:39 AM   #49
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Then why M440i with 1820 kilos has 225mm front tire?! Does it means that car will understeer too much?
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      01-16-2021, 06:34 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Eight View Post
Oxyde gray definitely for the M3, but I'm not sure that the M4 has the Brooklyn one. Brooklyn seems to have more light blue shades, this is more "rigid" in the colour tint. Looking at it, it seems to be something about "space gray" or something like that, but as it is presented inside a Factory, it's probably only beacause of the fact that the scenario is darker than in the open air.
It's dravite and oxyde.
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      01-16-2021, 06:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
I can't help but think this growth in tyre width between generations is compensation for needing to carry more weight and therefore manage understeer.

It is no doubt going to be a faster car than previous M3/4's on track but is it going to be so at the expense of being an enjoyable road car? I.e. tram lining, aqua planing, being more difficult to park with poor steering feedback?

Lotus Elise has 175/55/R16 fronts and 225/45/R17 rears and carries unbelievable corner speed on a track as well as giving great steering feel, a result of its low weight and being mid-engined.

Mclaren 720S too has a relatively narrow 245/35/R19 on the front and 305/30/R20 rear and is known for good steering feel as well as having crazy power. Both cars have a philosophy of managing their weight carefully and are on bespoke platforms that enable this goal.

By contrast the Camaro ZL1 1LE is a monster with 305 front sections tyres and owners talk about the difficulties as a road car that brings (admittedly its a track car not on a bespoke platform).

Big, wide front tyres don't always make a great road car and can bring their own compromises that need to be engineered around.

I am looking forward to reviews on the G8x to understand what these trade offs are in the real world as a road car.
You are right about the weight, heavier cars needs wider tires to distribute the heat across the tread.

The lotus and McLaren are mid engined cars and carry a greater proportion of their weight on the rear axle, hence why they can afford skinnier front tires. Their nimbleness is also the result of that rear weight bias.

The Camaro has a front weight bias and therefore needs those wide front tires to deal with the weight.
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      01-16-2021, 06:37 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz555 View Post
Then why M440i with 1820 kilos has 225mm front tire?! Does it means that car will understeer too much?
Yes. Car and Driver reported exactly that, specifying that the M440 had the lowest skidpad number of any PS4S shod car they’ve tested.
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      01-16-2021, 06:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
I like this series it gives us some good info to digest. Kind of surprised how much wider the front tires are in comparison to F80 when seen side by side. I see patching tires in the future of G80 owners.

I think that was Davit Gray which takes on a Bronze/Gold at times? Looks pretty good.
Patching and perhaps more bent rear rims - especially on some of our bumpy roads in the US.
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      01-16-2021, 07:13 AM   #54
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Is that The Hoff?!?!?!
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      01-16-2021, 07:55 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz555 View Post
Then why M440i with 1820 kilos has 225mm front tire?! Does it means that car will understeer too much?
Yes. Car and Driver reported exactly that, specifying that the M440 had the lowest skidpad number of any PS4S shod car they've tested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz555 View Post
Then why M440i with 1820 kilos has 225mm front tire?! Does it means that car will understeer too much?
Yes. Car and Driver reported exactly that, specifying that the M440 had the lowest skidpad number of any PS4S shod car they've tested.
Anticipated. 1800 kilos are to much for 225 tire. And there is no alternative set up with wider tires.
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      01-16-2021, 07:58 AM   #56
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Never knew about the star or what it meant. Does that mean when I replace the tires I need to find not only the same manufacturer and size but also tires with the star. Or do you only get these specific tires when you first purchase?
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      01-16-2021, 08:06 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I hope most cars get Michelin
Amen.

My E90 M3 came with Contis. When I swapped to PSSs it completely transformed the car.

Same thing with 2x former SUVs, one came with Bridgestone the other with Goodyears, Michelins transformed them as well. Luckily both our current cars came with Michelins. Best tires for the street by far in my experience.
100% agree...

Btw does this mean we should have to ask for bmw specific tires even when we go to mum and pop shops for tire replacement? Or will these tires only be available at dealers...
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      01-16-2021, 08:43 AM   #58
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100% agree...

Btw does this mean we should have to ask for bmw specific tires even when we go to mum and pop shops for tire replacement? Or will these tires only be available at dealers...
Many times tirerack for example will let you choose the bmw spec tire
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      01-16-2021, 09:05 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2nvs2001 View Post
100% agree...

Btw does this mean we should have to ask for bmw specific tires even when we go to mum and pop shops for tire replacement? Or will these tires only be available at dealers...
Many times tirerack for example will let you choose the bmw spec tire
Interesting! Thanks man - great tip. But I guess before tire-rack we were all driving non-spec tires unless we went to the dealer....
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      01-16-2021, 09:23 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2nvs2001 View Post
Interesting! Thanks man - great tip. But I guess before tire-rack we were all driving non-spec tires unless we went to the dealer....
Yup, most likely that's what was happening
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      01-16-2021, 09:37 AM   #61
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Very informative vid. Bigly important to pick the right tires for driving conditions.
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      01-16-2021, 09:47 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2nvs2001 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2nvs2001 View Post
100% agree...

Btw does this mean we should have to ask for bmw specific tires even when we go to mum and pop shops for tire replacement? Or will these tires only be available at dealers...
Many times tirerack for example will let you choose the bmw spec tire
Interesting! Thanks man - great tip. But I guess before tire-rack we were all driving non-spec tires unless we went to the dealer....
Maybe, but wouldn't be overtly concerned about it. I'm sure "starspec" holds a marginal difference in performance characteristics over the non-star spec counterpart, where only a marginal % of drivers will notice a difference, if any at all. I call it marketing at its best aka create a reason to also justify a higher retail price.
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      01-16-2021, 09:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Scorp!on View Post
It's dravite and oxyde.
The one on the left is "Individual Special Paint Sepang Bronze metallic" and the one on the right "Skyscraper Grey metallic" according to comments to the youtube video by somebody from M GmbH (Bimmerpost seems to make it difficult to deep-link to it).
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      01-16-2021, 10:02 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by flanast View Post
Never knew about the star or what it meant. Does that mean when I replace the tires I need to find not only the same manufacturer and size but also tires with the star. Or do you only get these specific tires when you first purchase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by b2nvs2001 View Post
100% agree...

Btw does this mean we should have to ask for bmw specific tires even when we go to mum and pop shops for tire replacement? Or will these tires only be available at dealers...
OE specific tires, star spec in BMW's case, are available for aftermarket purchase. When keeping the same brand and size of tire, it is always better to stick with the OE spec for the given vehicle. Be wary, even dealers are often not familiar with this, so you need to insist on the right spec.

Here's a great article on how specific tires are not all the same: https://motoiq.com/not-all-michelin-...ated-the-same/
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      01-16-2021, 10:04 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by i128 View Post
Maybe, but wouldn't be overtly concerned about it. I'm sure "starspec" holds a marginal difference in performance characteristics over the non-star spec counterpart, where only a marginal % of drivers will notice a difference, if any at all. I call it marketing at its best aka create a reason to also justify a higher retail price.
Read the article linked in the post above

And BTW, OE spec are not necessarily more expensive.
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      01-16-2021, 10:15 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
I don't disagree, but I would rather see torsional stiffness, engine dynamic behaviour, vehicle dynamics wrt understeer. With all respect for the clip, but we could have also made it in a couple of hours, not?
I’m sure that info is coming as this is a series.
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