[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Ehhhh I kind of understand where you're coming from. I've outgrown BMW car meets and at the tender age of 42 (...lol), I'm quite a bit younger than the average Porsche owner.

Yeah, I remember I had a brief stint in a Camaro SS (6th Gen) and I felt so out of place at those car meets (either really old country white dudes, or super young "scene" guys that have questionable source of funds to spend that much on the car + their $20k in mods).

The BMW meets are great with the BMWCCA in say the San Diego region. A bunch of great down to earth wide range of ages folks. But when I go to any other type of BMW car meet, and I agree 100% I've outgrown that scene. Not quite Camaro scene yet, but it's getting there. Every asshat 25 year old working at a weed dispensary can afford a 2014-2017 M3 now that they "heavily mod bruh" which just means lowering springs and angel eyes and swear it's the same as my F80CS. That shit gets old and tacky really quick.

Every Porsche function/meet I have been to made me feel more at home with that crowd, though I am a bit on the younger side of that age group of owners (like you). Those guys just seem to really care about history, driving their cars, and are good quality car enthusiasts. They are also in similar lines of work to me (which I didn't think it would matter until I started trying to relate to a sales associate at Kohl's - not trying to be snobby but we definitely view the world a bit different - but mostly I think it's because I vibe with others in a profession or military/LEO). Honestly, BMWCCA in the San Diego region is the closest I would say to the feeling of the Porsche owners I have had the chance to hang with.

Less ricers, and more sophisticated enthusiasts.

One thing is true, the owners communities that both BMW and Porsche have are truly second to none. And I love that.

[SpeedyJ]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah I have an allocation in hand for a 992, and to be fair I did mean to add it even without supply chain issues, but did forget that like an idiot.

Even without the current shortage, Porsche sells a ton of them (and rarely with the ridiculous discounts you see on the M8/M5/M3CS etc) and they all hold their value long term over almost any other sports car.

But, yeah you are spot on, I should have mentioned the current supply chain issues.

Yah totally agree, I was "lucky" to get A real sept build allocation for a 992 turbo s at msrp... in the current climate allocations are 25k over. I had a dealer relationship and I was required to pretrade my 992s. Crazy thing is I ordered my c2s right when Covid started and got 7 percent off my 992 c2s and my trade number was only a few k less than what I paid after 6 months and 6k miles.. dealer turned around and sold it for next msrp plus required the buyer to trade in his cayman Gt4.. in like 3 Days.


All that being said the 992 is a purpose built sports car. The m3 is a modified mass produced passenger car. I always keep that in perspective when comparing the two and the m3 is impressive in its own rigjt

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by SpeedyJ

Yah totally agree, I was "lucky" to get A real sept build allocation for a 992 turbo s at msrp... in the current climate allocations are 25k over. I had a dealer relationship and I was required to pretrade my 992s. Crazy thing is I ordered my c2s right when Covid started and got 7 percent off my 992 c2s and my trade number was only a few k less than what I paid after 6 months and 6k miles.. dealer turned around and sold it for next msrp plus required the buyer to trade in his cayman Gt4.. in like 3 Days.


All that being said the 992 is a purpose built sports car. The m3 is a modified mass produced passenger car. I always keep that in perspective when comparing the two and the m3 is impressive in its own rigjt

Great point here, and it's the key difference.

[SpeedyJ]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah, I remember I had a brief stint in a Camaro SS (6th Gen) and I felt so out of place at those car meets (either really old country white dudes, or super young "scene" guys that have questionable source of funds to spend that much on the car + their $20k in mods).

The BMW meets are great with the BMWCCA in say the San Diego region. A bunch of great down to earth wide range of ages folks. But when I go to any other type of BMW car meet, and I agree 100% I've outgrown that scene. Not quite Camaro scene yet, but it's getting there. Every asshat 25 year old working at a weed dispensary can afford a 2014-2017 M3 now that they "heavily mod bruh" which just means lowering springs and angel eyes and swear it's the same as my F80CS. That shit gets old and tacky really quick.

Every Porsche function/meet I have been to made me feel more at home with that crowd, though I am a bit in the younger side of that crowd (like you). Those guys just seem to really care about history, driving their cars, and are good quality car enthusiasts. Honestly, BMWCCA in the San Diego region is the closest I would say to the feeling of the Porsche owners I have had the chance to hang with.

Less ricers, and more sophisticated enthusiasts.

One thing is true, the owners communities that both BMW and Porsche have are truly second to none. And I love that.

I think ur right, it depends on the venue as well. I think actual pca and bmw cca meets are fine. In the other venues u get the immature bmw angel eye Crowd or the "look at me I'm wealth and did I mention my car is pts?"crowd.

I truly love cars from a very young age, so none of the prestige factor that some people care about appeals to me.

I'm an old soul but only 35 😆

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by supershaft

I have a tuned F90 M5 and I still daily my 992 more often. Anyone here trying to "justify" a G80 over a 992 is just too poor to own one. Enough with the 'ticks all the boxes' nonsense already.

I used to be of the same mindset and until I drove a 911 I "got it".

Lol no

It's an older gentleman's car

I'm 27, I could have either twice and I chose the m4

I'll concede after thinking about it a bit that part of me doesn't want my customers to see me in a Porsche

[jackaleyess]

Originally Posted by SpeedyJ

So I came out of a 992 c2s with spasm and rws.. The car had sublime steering and was dynamically excellent. The motor was good but not great. I sold it Because I used it as a daily and the for the compromise in practically and space, it just wasn't special enough. For background I also have a 991.2 gt3 manual and a 992 tts on order. I have a g80 m3 zcp now as a daily and I find it far more fun, mainly because it's much more usable and feels like a hammer (vs a scalpel). The 992 is much more precise and has higher Limits. It's also much less tail happy. The m3 sounds better stock and also has a better motor IMO. That being said, the m3 is not special enough to be a weekend car and one would be better suited in a 911 for that. For its intended purpose, the m3 is outstanding and far better than the f80 zcp I had in 2018.

Wow, u have been earning quite a sweet money. Having to own many masterpiece in such a short span of time.

[SpeedyJ]

Originally Posted by jackaleyess

Wow, u have been earning quite a sweet money. Having to own many masterpiece in such a short span of time.

Just blessed and work my butt off that's all

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Pantagathus

LMAO, your "clear 12 inches of water" comment is dumb. You wouldn't cross shop an F-150 and M3, you're buying for different purposes. THAT's the point. The 911 can be the best driving car in the world, it simply does not do what I need it to do with 2 kids. Money is irrelevant.

If you could keep up you would realize you are missing the point. He was making up arbitrary reasons why the 911 can't be used as a daily. I have been able to take my 4 and 7 year old, with the wife, and weekend bags without an issue. Anyone saying it's not as capable is just too poor to afford one or both.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by supershaft

If you could keep up you would realize you are missing the point. He was making up arbitrary reasons why the 911 can't be used as a daily. I have been able to take my 4 and 7 year old, with the wife, and weekend bags without an issue. Anyone saying it's not as capable is just too poor to afford one or both.

yes but you might not be married anymore on Monday

[Pantagathus]

Originally Posted by supershaft

If you could keep up you would realize you are missing the point. He was making up arbitrary reasons why the 911 can't be used as a daily. I have been able to take my 4 and 7 year old, with the wife, and weekend bags without an issue. Anyone saying it's not as capable is just too poor to afford one or both.

Somebody who constantly has to try and prove how supposedly poor everyone else is and how rich they are is:
1. Typically financially illiterate at best
2. Colloquially described as the life of the party

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by supershaft

If you could keep up you would realize you are missing the point. He was making up arbitrary reasons why the 911 can't be used as a daily. I have been able to take my 4 and 7 year old, with the wife, and weekend bags without an issue. Anyone saying it's not as capable is just too poor to afford one or both.

Interesting. I’ve always perceived the non-GT, non-Turbo 911s as the ones you buy if you can’t afford the real hardware. The regular cars don’t drive special enough to justify the compromises. We’re just now getting 911s with decent infotainment. To me, they’re not quite special enough to be exclusively weekend cars which puts the realistic use case squarely in M3 land (fun daily). Those compromises weigh more heavily as usage goes up, which is probably why these forums are populated by lots of people who came back to the M value proposition after a stint with a C2S.

Now, a standard GT3 (of any generation)? Completely and utterly different story. It seems that most M enthusiasts who “graduate” are happiest when they step up to those cars and pair them with a reasonable daily (which is sometimes another M).

Getting discounts on regular 911s have been pretty commonplace until very recently with the overall massive shift in the automotive marketplace. They have also depreciated pretty normally (slower than M5/6/8, in line with M3/4), again, until recently. I’d say F8x depreciation is on par with regular 911s still; all boats have risen with the recent tide. The market values GT cars; it’s on those cars that Porsche has built a reputation for modern cars that hold their value extraordinarily well.

Let’s be honest, if you drive a regular 911, money is most likely an object. Personally, I’ve driven them over and over and over because I love the idea of a really special car that can credibly be driven daily, but I’ve never come away from a drive sufficiently inspired to write the check. Based on how willingly dealers have been to wheel and deal over the years, I don’t think I’m alone in that. If you’re an enthusiast, you’re probably thinking “save the $50k” or “add $50k and get a GT3, and get a daily beater”. Or, you buy anyway simply to check the Porsche ownership box. Those cars are the M340i of that product line.

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's a tie!

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...s-porsche-911/

Thank you for still affirming that a 911 is fantastic and way better.

Till you drive one, you won't understand. Once you do, there is no going back.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Interesting. I've always perceived the non-GT, non-Turbo 911s as the ones you buy if you can't afford the real hardware. The regular cars don't drive special enough to justify the compromises. We're just now getting 911s with decent infotainment. To me, they're not quite special enough to be exclusively weekend cars which puts the realistic use case squarely in M3 land (fun daily). Those compromises weigh more heavily as usage goes up, which is probably why these forums are populated by lots of people who came back to the M value proposition after a stint with a C2S.

Now, a standard GT3 (of any generation)? Completely and utterly different story. It seems that most M enthusiasts who "graduate" are happiest when they step up to those cars and pair them with a reasonable daily (which is sometimes another M).

Getting discounts on regular 911s have been pretty commonplace until very recently with the overall massive shift in the automotive marketplace. They have also depreciated pretty normally (slower than M5/6/8, in line with M3/4), again, until recently. I'd say F8x depreciation is on par with regular 911s still; all boats have risen with the recent tide. The market values GT cars; it's on those cars that Porsche has built a reputation for modern cars that hold their value extraordinarily well.

Let's be honest, if you drive a regular 911, money is most likely an object. Personally, I've driven them over and over and over because I love the idea of a really special car that can credibly be driven daily, but I've never come away from a drive sufficiently inspired to write the check. Based on how willingly dealers have been to wheel and deal over the years, I don't think I'm alone in that. If you're an enthusiast, you're probably thinking "save the $50k" or "add $50k and get a GT3, and get a daily beater". Or, you buy anyway simply to check the Porsche ownership box. Those cars are the M340i of that product line.

Yes and no. You make some very valid points, but there is nuance. If you're a diehard MT lover, that rules out Turbos and the base Carrera. Basically you have the Carrera S or step into a GT3, and that's a much larger step than the $50k number you mentioned.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes and no. You make some very valid points, but there is nuance. If you're a diehard MT lover, that rules out Turbos and the base Carrera. Basically you have the Carrera S or step into a GT3, and that's a much larger step than the $50k number you mentioned.

Very good point. 992 S 7MT is a unique offering and fits outside the above somewhat. I’ve driven a few manual 911s, and have been impressed with the boxes they put in older GT3s and GT3RSs and Turbos (with the sport shifter option). Massive upgrade over what BMW M puts in their cars. I recall rushing to my local Porsche store years ago to drive a just-received 991.1 7MT with full intention to buy and left without it (might’ve been a non-S, don’t remember). The short, mechanical throws and stiff clutch pedal of the GT cars were replaced with much less aggressive hardware far better suited for daily driving. Solid, but not “special”.

I’m assuming the 992 S box is likely a big improvement over that one (and hopefully has a sports shifter option). Will try to find one to drive to form an opinion on it. Regardless, the delta between that and a 6MT GT3 is probably $60-100k right now for 991.2 and double the money (or greater) for 992. Makes the 992 S 7MT a great deal. I see you’re getting one; nice! Congratulations in advance.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Very good point. 992 S 7MT is a unique offering and fits outside the above somewhat. I've driven a few manual 911s, and have been impressed with the boxes they put in older GT3s and GT3RSs and Turbos (with the sport shifter option). Massive upgrade over what BMW M puts in their cars. I recall rushing to my local Porsche store years ago to drive a just-received 991.1 7MT with full intention to buy and left without it (might've been a non-S, don't remember). The short, mechanical throws and stiff clutch pedal of the GT cars were replaced with much less aggressive hardware far better suited for daily driving. Solid, but not "special".

I'm assuming the 992 S box is likely a big improvement over that one (and hopefully has a sports shifter option). Will try to find one to drive to form an opinion on it. Regardless, the delta between that and a 6MT GT3 is probably $60-100k right now for 991.2 and double the money (or greater) for 992. Makes the 992 S 7MT a great deal. I see you're getting one; nice! Congratulations in advance.

Thanks bro! I'm looking forward to it. From what I understand, Porsche took their wonderfully designed PDK and just formatted the mechanism for analog shifting. I guess there are two rods connecting the shift points and there's some interesting tech used to adapt the PDK.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Thanks bro! I'm looking forward to it. From what I understand, Porsche took their wonderfully designed PDK and just formatted the mechanism for analog shifting. I guess there are two rods connecting the shift points and there's some interesting tech used to adapt the PDK.

Very interesting - found this technical doc that goes into detail on the design and operation of the 991 7MT, which appears to be the same box as that used in the 992 S (starts on page 95).

http://delaraspelle.com/porsche/P001...rts%20Cars.pdf

Clever stuff.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Very interesting - found this technical doc that goes into detail on the design and operation of the 991 7MT, which appears to be the same box as that used in the 992 S (starts on page 95).

http://delaraspelle.com/porsche/P001...rts%20Cars.pdf

Clever stuff.

That's a damn good read. Super technical. Gahhhh! Is it December yet? Lol!

[xman11]

Originally Posted by SpeedyJ

...I also have a 991.2 gt3 manual and a 992 tts on order. I have a g80 m3 zcp now as a daily and I find it far more fun, mainly because it's much more usable and feels like a hammer (vs a scalpel). The 992 is much more precise and has higher Limits. It's also much less tail happy. The m3 sounds better stock and also has a better motor IMO. That being said, the m3 is not special enough to be a weekend car and one would be better suited in a 911 for that. For its intended purpose, the m3 is outstanding and far better than the f80 zcp I had in 2018.

^^ this. Reason to have multiple cars, for those with understanding partners or just dgaf.

Originally Posted by Inductive

Maybe I'm the only one that would pay the $50K price differential simply to not have to see the G8X pig nostrils.

Always enter from the rear

Originally Posted by Pantagathus

I would love a 911 to have as a garage queen, but can't justify that sort of money to be used once a week (although I'd have no problem spending more on a boat that I'd use less frequently, so what do I know).

For me, the M3 just ticks every box I have. I have 2 car seats in it, I use it every day for drop offs, grocery runs etc., it has 3 pedals, and am lining up a track day for it shortly. What the hell other car can do that?

Any manual transmission sedan.

Originally Posted by supershaft

I have a tuned F90 M5 and I still daily my 992 more often. Anyone here trying to "justify" a G80 over a 992 is just too poor to own one. Enough with the 'ticks all the boxes' nonsense already.

I used to be of the same mindset and until I drove a 911 I "got it".

Go read Rich dad poor dad and fix your mindset!
Then buy a 911 like this guy did.

Originally Posted by xlover

The point I never agree with in the M3/M4 vs 911 debate is the characterization of the 911 as an "all rounder"/"daily driver" . The 911 to me is just a toy car, it is an excellent toy and does accomplish its two goals amazingly 1) driving experience and 2) Exclusivity/luxury

Considering the 911 does not have to compromise for everyday practicality it should be dynamically superior to an M3/M4. I think it is great to use as a bar for what BMW can do with the M twins considering the functional requirements of the platform. I never understand the comparisons where one looks at a missing feature or dynamic "failure" of the M3/M4 and says "welp now i am switching to porsche" as if the two vehicles are interchangeable

for me a true daily driver has to be useable everyday of the week, with the 911 you can never
-take yourself and friend to the golf course along with both bags of clubs, really you cant even take yourself unless you are clown and put the clubs in the cabin on the passenger seat (would this count for HOV status?)
-self and partner for week away, at least not the way my wife packs
-self, partner, +1 child for anything but an in town trip (if you disagree tell me where the stroller goes lol)

The 911 however does
-dominate back roads
-dominate swagger in bumper to bumper traffic on the way to the office

Great post. I agree with the part “I never understand”

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I have contemplated selling my GTR and M4 and grabbing a GT3. My buddy has a 2019 Miami blue one and I love it!! So, that's what I would want. Just haven't pulled the trigger. Luckily, I can use his every once in awhile

If you only had a M3, you could rm the R and M then concat your GTR and M3 into a GT3.
I'm sure there's a script out there that can do this...

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You’ve driven a 992 GT3 ?

Maybe he’s a security guard like these guys

Originally Posted by SpeedyJ

...All that being said the 992 is a purpose built sports car.

Damn straight. The purpose of making money!

[SpeedyJ]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes and no. You make some very valid points, but there is nuance. If you're a diehard MT lover, that rules out Turbos and the base Carrera. Basically you have the Carrera S or step into a GT3, and that's a much larger step than the $50k number you mentioned.

The 7 speed manual is good but not great, once u drive a cayman or gt3 6 speed u realize how meh the 7 speed is. I actually think the pdk is much better suited for the Carrera s. If u haven't driven a manual gt3 u should. It's a revelation.

[SpeedyJ]

Originally Posted by supershaft

If you could keep up you would realize you are missing the point. He was making up arbitrary reasons why the 911 can't be used as a daily. I have been able to take my 4 and 7 year old, with the wife, and weekend bags without an issue. Anyone saying it's not as capable is just too poor to afford one or both.

I have a 5 year old/18 month old and my wife is petite/5'5 and couldn't fit in the front when my kids were in the back, mainly due to the rear facing seat. The 992 backseat is pretty awful for anything but short trips and the frunk surely can't fit a normal size stroller let alone a stroller plus appreciable luggage. Again I would hesitate to use the finances argument because a lot of my friends with huracans, turbos, and other sports cars are leasing g80s as dailys. Also, not to burst ur bubble but a turbo and a gt3 make the c2s feel flat.

[xman11]

Originally Posted by SpeedyJ

The 7 speed manual is good but not great, once u drive a cayman or gt3 6 speed u realize how meh the 7 speed is. I actually think the pdk is much better suited for the Carrera s. If u haven't driven a manual gt3 u should. It's a revelation.

And now that the gt3 has a double wishbone front suspension, it's the honda I always wanted. Just add an extra 0 to account for inflation.

[bri1042]

Yep, I'm too poor to afford a new 911. Gee, darn. I was, for much of my life, too poor to afford an M3. I was once, 30+ years ago, too poor to afford a car that was less than 40% rust. 75k car or 135k car...both of them are too expensive for most people.

A friend of mine who makes a hair over the median wage for the area just bought her first new car at 45 years of age. A 23k Hyundai Kona. She has massive family expenses due to difficulties a few family members face and was so very thrilled to finally have a car that didn't have millions of miles and dents. She drove over to show it to me and insisted that I take it for a drive. I felt like I was driving a Fisher Price toy (the interior plastics are AWFUL). I did nothing but compliment it and really enjoyed seeing how happy she is.

Perspective is a wonderful thing.