[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've opted for the centerlock wheels on my TT, so options are more limited. OE option is 13k CAD for the winter wheel/tire kit . I have not yet looked beyond that since I still have some time ahead of me. For me here up north, it is 5 months out of 12 on winters, so 40%+ of the time .

But just so you know, my buddy negotiated a new OE winter tire and wheel kit for ~3.5k CAD (2.7k USD) from his dealer for his base 992 C4.

Thanks, I’m glad I’m looking at the base

Are you planning on F1 style pit stops with the center lock, 3s for all four

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by solstice

Thanks, I'm glad I'm looking at the base

Are you planning on F1 style pit stops with the center lock, 3s for all four

anyone worth their salt will dip into the 2s!

I've had an e46 and two F80s. I moved from an F80 and into the camaro SS when it came out bc everyone was saying how much better of a drivers car it was. They were right: beefy shifter, steering, great balance, loud, powerful with great throttle response and torque ... but it was missing a ton of refinement. traded that out for an Audi S3 to go the other direction on the scale... fun but not nearly sporty enough, borderline snoozefest on track. Added a 718S to complement the S3. I was torn between previous gen cayman GTS and a Boxster 718S sitting on the lot that day. went 718S for new tech and more torque which I enjoyed on the test drive. I tracked it at Sonoma and Laguna Seca where the car was really great, hard to slide because it was so planted. In fact, it's the most planted far I've driven save the 991 Turbo at PECLA. I got rid of it for another SS1LE bc I missed the drama from the V8 manual track weapon that was missing from the 4cyl 718S with PDK.

My conclusions:

M3 is a fantastic do-everything car that means more towards practicality than driving bliss (when compared to some of the best drivers cars). The meh exhaust & soft shifter were two of my biggest turn offs from the F80.

718S and 991.2 Turbo were amazing on track. The 991.2 Turbo was face melting fast to launch and track but I haven't spent a lot of time on the road, I question if I'll be excited with it on the street? The 718S was like it was on "rails" but day to day it didn't get me too excited. Comfortable and well mannered. Some may be after these things.

GT3 PDK: that beautiful engine sound is amazing. very fast with PDK and you know the rest. If I were to buy one I'd be super torn between PDK speed and mis-shift insurance vs the manual. Over the years I've realized that I'm fine with PDK/DCT on track but its BETWEEN THE TRACK DAYS when I'm driving the car that the manual really keeps me engaged. Blipping , slamming gears, etc... ive always been happier with the manuals overall.

So what am I going to do? I truthfully don't know. I was searching for GT3(RS) cars nationwide last night to see what's available. I'd love a new 992GT3 at MSRP but that's not gonna happen. The Turbo is still on the table because my two small boys can still squeeze in and go on some short trips. The 718GT4 is another serious contender bc it's much cheaper but still can have a manual and there are a lot of used ones already available even if I couldn't get a brand new one. Alternatively I may still get a G80 for a fun family daily and keep the SS1LE bc it really is a fun/great/quick track car. which also brings in other players like ZL11LE, GT500, Z06... If I keep the camaro, I'll probably also look at M5/M8 leases.

so this probably doesn't add a lot of clarity, but maybe a few things to consider lol. If there's one thing I've learned it's that there will never be a perfect car. Good luck on your decision and, please, everyone, also wish me good luck on mine. Haha.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I'm fine with PDK/DCT on track but its BETWEEN THE TRACK DAYS when I'm driving the car that the manual really keeps me engaged.

This ! x1000

Huge source of my car questionning, I love my DCT M2 on track but find meh on the street, this spring I think I'm going to force myslef to drive it in manual mode using the shifter to try to help alleviate the feeling.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by PLF69

This ! x1000

Huge source of my car questionning, I love my DCT M2 on track but find meh on the street, this spring I think I'm going to force myslef to drive it in manual mode using the shifter to try to help alleviate the feeling.

It doesn’t help much, it’s the 3rd pedal that make all the difference. I had M-DCT in my E90. Not the same in any way. I liked it but it’s not nearly as engaging.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by solstice

It doesn’t help much, it’s the 3rd pedal that make all the difference. I had M-DCT in my E90. Not the same in any way. I liked it but it’s not nearly as engaging.

The best M cars will always be RWD with a manual.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by solstice

It doesn’t help much, it’s the 3rd pedal that make all the difference. I had M-DCT in my E90. Not the same in any way. I liked it but it’s not nearly as engaging.

I personally disagree. If I have a capable quick shifting DCT (or new 8AT) that doesn't tell me what to do with my shifts, I'm very happy. It also depends on driving environment. Huge hills that are often wet plus stop and go traffic on my commute makes me hate manual. Different strokes am I right?

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I personally disagree. If I have a capable quick shifting DCT (or new 8AT) that doesn't tell me what to do with my shifts, I'm very happy. It also depends on driving environment. Huge hills that are often wet plus stop and go traffic on my commute makes me hate manual. Different strokes am I right?

In a perfect world I would have a manual car with auto-clutch mode.

At the minimum like the rally cars that can me shifted without pressing the clutch.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Thats one of the aspects of M Cars I dislike the most (stiff ride) When comparing to other brands I always feel like BMW purposely makes the cars stiff to had to the sporty "feeling". It's been proven before that a compliant suspension is faster most of the time, it's like they want to give you an impression, when I look at the G80 with the digital dash and awkward styling it makes me feel like playing a video game.

I will be having my M2 suspension out for the 4th time trying to get a balance I like...

The problem with BMW is that they don't have superior shock damping for a softer set-up

They need to fire their suspension engineers and go poach GM and Porsche.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I personally disagree. If I have a capable quick shifting DCT (or new 8AT) that doesn't tell me what to do with my shifts, I'm very happy. It also depends on driving environment. Huge hills that are often wet plus stop and go traffic on my commute makes me hate manual. Different strokes am I right?

What do you disagree with exactly? That the third pedal makes a difference or that manual is more engaging?

It's just that you don't want the engagement for your DD situation. That's totally fine and glad there are options.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by PLF69

This ! x1000

Huge source of my car questionning, I love my DCT M2 on track but find meh on the street, this spring I think I'm going to force myslef to drive it in manual mode using the shifter to try to help alleviate the feeling.

don't expect it to help ... F80 with DCT, M6GC/CP, 718S PDK, S3 DCT.... none held my attention between track days. Great cars, but just NEED more involvement to stay interested. I'm sure hoping I don't talk myself into a PDK for my first GT car coming later this year (hopefully) bc I'll probablt even feel the same about that car on the street .. scary but true

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

don't expect it to help ... F80 with DCT, M6GC/CP, 718S PDK, S3 DCT.... none held my attention between track days. Great cars, but just NEED more involvement to stay interested. I'm sure hoping I don't talk myself into a PDK for my first GT car coming later this year (hopefully) bc I'll probablt even feel the same about that car on the street .. scary but true

Yesterday I watched Nick Murray's video on the M/T 992 Carrera S and I could relate to many of is comments about the difference between PDK and MT.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

What do you disagree with exactly? That the third pedal makes a difference or that manual is more engaging?

It's just that you don't want the engagement for your DD situation. That's totally fine and glad there are options.

A manual is more engaging but to me it's just busy. If you like that, great but it's also possible to feel engaged in a flappy paddle setup if the shifts are responsive and it doesn't shift for you unless you want it to. I drive 90% of the time in manual modes. Once I went DCT I won't go back to manual. The new 8AT is good as well and functions better at slow speeds.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Transfer

A manual is more engaging but to me it's just busy. If you like that, great but it's also possible to feel engaged in a flappy paddle setup if the shifts are responsive and it doesn't shift for you unless you want it to. I drive 90% of the time in manual modes. Once I went DCT I won't go back to manual. The new 8AT is good as well and functions better at slow speeds.

No doubt about being smoother. it really is just a personal preference thing. I enjoy going around town with a coffee in my hand and not being worried about shifting. hills, stop & go, drinking coffee, texting (kidding!) all is way easier without having to shift and I definitely prefer auto-ish for those times.

GT3RS is calling my name but will have to get some seat time before I decide. Maybe I'll do an M3 manual to keep a stick in the household? I just love them but yeah.. some people like a dull paint and some people want the brightest color imaginable. Some are surgeons, some are accountants. Good to have a mix!

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

The 718S was like it was on "rails" but day to day it didn't get me too excited. Comfortable and well mannered. Some may be after these things.

The GT4 should fix what you didn't like about the 718S without losing what you did like; lots of character even just trundling along. Obviously at its best on the track, but still enticing to cruise around in on back roads (provided you don't get stuck in traffic), and the power levels are sane enough that you can get some good use out of it in a public setting.

Originally Posted by evanescent03

So what am I going to do? I truthfully don't know. I was searching for GT3(RS) cars nationwide last night to see what's available. I'd love a new 992GT3 at MSRP but that's not gonna happen. The Turbo is still on the table because my two small boys can still squeeze in and go on some short trips. The 718GT4 is another serious contender bc it's much cheaper but still can have a manual and there are a lot of used ones already available even if I couldn't get a brand new one.

Yeah--you clearly already know this, but getting a GT3 allocation is probably going to be challenging (and that's putting it very mildly). Most dealerships will favor their long time repeat customers or will charge obnoxious markups; those that don't tend to have lengthy waiting lists.

On the upside, this also means there's a good chance the 991.2 GT3 MT market might open up a bit once the 992 hits the street. GT cars tend to go through very incremental/evolutionary update cycles, so you really won't be giving up much by going a gen earlier. And, as you mentioned, the 718 GT4s are already readily available.

I ended up opting for a GT4 because the 991+ felt a little too big in general, and I couldn't find a suitable 991.2 MT. The GT4 is more of a classic dual-purpose track/street purist sports car and the price is very reasonable by Porsche standards. Would love to add a 997.2 GT3 to the mix at some point, but I'm in no rush.

[Art__Vandelay]

I'm also planning on getting a new car this spring/summer after more than 5 years with the F80.

There are not too many alternatives that I really like and that suit me. Basically, the only options I'm considering right now are the G80 or the 992 (Carrera S or 4S).

I've always appreciated Porsche but was never really a Porsche guy and had never specifically looked into buying one.

What is currently holding me back at least a little (apart from the higher price of course, though the price of a new G80 here in Switzerland is also very high):

- It's basically a 2-seater (it would be my only car, but I don't have kids)
- Luggage space is significantly smaller
- I would miss the iDrive, the Porsche system is rather average in comparison and reduced only to touchscreen operation, which I do not like
- The interior of the 992 is okay and of high quality, but maybe a bit "boring", the interior of the G80 on the other hand looks really good IMO and is a big step forward compared to the predecessor

On the other hand, the driving experience, the steering, the rear engine experience, the design, etc. are really tempting me.

Regarding the G80, there are several things I don't like. It's not even the grille, but rather things like the higher weight, but also those stupid black side skirts (and on the sides of the front bumper), the Fast and the Furious rear diffuser, only dark wheels options, etc. All of that looks so aftermarket and kinda cheap to me. Although it could be a good looking car.

I'm leaning towards the 992, but won't be an easy decision.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

No doubt about being smoother. it really is just a personal preference thing. I enjoy going around town with a coffee in my hand and not being worried about shifting. hills, stop & go, drinking coffee, texting (kidding!) all is way easier without having to shift and I definitely prefer auto-ish for those times.

GT3RS is calling my name but will have to get some seat time before I decide. Maybe I'll do an M3 manual to keep a stick in the household? I just love them but yeah.. some people like a dull paint and some people want the brightest color imaginable. Some are surgeons, some are accountants. Good to have a mix!

Have you checked on a CPO GT3? My buddy got one last year in New York. There were a few available then. Not sure about now. Save some cash and get a nice Warranty.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Have you checked on a CPO GT3? My buddy got one last year in New York. There were a few available then. Not sure about now. Save some cash and get a nice Warranty.

CPO GT3 would definitely be a nice option. Knowing most get tracked obviously doesn't feel great, especially when it's impossible to say if the proper maintenance was being delivered during those hard miles. I guess that's when good maintenance records may really be valuable.

New 992 GT3, used 901.2 GT3, new/used 718 GT4 is my current priority list. We'll see how it unfolds... thanks for the input!

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by Croatian test driver

I'm also planning on getting a new car this spring/summer after more than 5 years with the F80.

There are not too many alternatives that I really like and that suit me. Basically, the only options I'm considering right now are the G80 or the 992 (Carrera S or 4S).

I've always appreciated Porsche but was never really a Porsche guy and had never specifically looked into buying one.

What is currently holding me back at least a little (apart from the higher price of course, though the price of a new G80 here in Switzerland is also very high):

- It's basically a 2-seater (it would be my only car, but I don't have kids)
- Luggage space is significantly smaller
- I would miss the iDrive, the Porsche system is rather average in comparison and reduced only to touchscreen operation, which I do not like
- The interior of the 992 is okay and of high quality, but maybe a bit "boring", the interior of the G80 on the other hand looks really good IMO and is a big step forward compared to the predecessor

On the other hand, the driving experience, the steering, the rear engine experience, the design, etc. are really tempting me.

Regarding the G80, there are several things I don't like. It's not even the grille, but rather things like the higher weight, but also those stupid black side skirts (and on the sides of the front bumper), the Fast and the Furious rear diffuser, only dark wheels options, etc. All of that looks so aftermarket and kinda cheap to me. Although it could be a good looking car.

I'm leaning towards the 992, but won't be an easy decision.

Good points! I was switching between a new GT4 and the new M4. After checking out both and driving both I ended up with ordering a new M4C, because of the many things you mentioned in favor to the G80.

The GT4 is a great car, but comparing everything like practicality, interior, entertainment and so on, the M4C catched my attention more for the same amount of money my config would have been for both cars.
And I do like both worlds, good driving and still some nice tech / luxury, and in terms of the later, P is way behind BMW.
Also in terms of modding the cars, P is very intolerant in terms of warranty if something pops up even if you only changed the wheels to not OEM.

But in the end, it really depends on what you really want and where you put your priorities. Both have their pros and cons, and in the end the decision comes when you answer yourself what matters more to you.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

CPO GT3 would definitely be a nice option. Knowing most get tracked obviously doesn't feel great, especially when it's impossible to say if the proper maintenance was being delivered during those hard miles. I guess that's when good maintenance records may really be valuable.

New 992 GT3, used 901.2 GT3, new/used 718 GT4 is my current priority list. We'll see how it unfolds... thanks for the input!

No problem. His car only had 2500 miles on it or something in that range. Seems like a lot of those Porsche dudes barely drive the cars and then trade in for something diff or new. Best of luck!!

[Art__Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Dr.Deep

Good points! I was switching between a new GT4 and the new M4. After checking out both and driving both I ended up with ordering a new M4C, because of the many things you mentioned in favor to the G80.

The GT4 is a great car, but comparing everything like practicality, interior, entertainment and so on, the M4C catched my attention more for the same amount of money my config would have been for both cars.
And I do like both worlds, good driving and still some nice tech / luxury, and in terms of the later, P is way behind BMW.
Also in terms of modding the cars, P is very intolerant in terms of warranty if something pops up even if you only changed the wheels to not OEM.

But in the end, it really depends on what you really want and where you put your priorities. Both have their pros and cons, and in the end the decision comes when you answer yourself what matters more to you.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Though, while the GT4 is a lovely car, the listed cons are even more evident here than on the 992. You have even less space, less luxury and the infotainment system is much older and technically behind the system of the 992. So I definitely understand your decision.

But then again, I had the last 3 generations of the M3 and while I loved all of them a Porsche would definitely be an appealing change, plus I really like the 992 overall.

[Dr.Deep]

Originally Posted by Croatian test driver

Yeah, I know what you mean. Though, while the GT4 is a lovely car, the listed cons are even more evident here than on the 992. You have even less space, less luxury and the infotainment system is much older and technically behind the system of the 992. So I definitely understand your decision.

But then again, I had the last 3 generations of the M3 and while I loved all of them a Porsche would definitely be an appealing change, plus I really like the 992 overall.

Exactly, if the GT4 had the similar interior as the 992, then the choice would probably have been different

But I also fully understand your temptation if you like the 992 overall and after 3 Ms

For me if a 992, then a GT one as 2nd car, but here were talking different price range

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Croatian test driver

Yeah, I know what you mean. Though, while the GT4 is a lovely car, the listed cons are even more evident here than on the 992. You have even less space, less luxury and the infotainment system is much older and technically behind the system of the 992. So I definitely understand your decision.

But then again, I had the last 3 generations of the M3 and while I loved all of them a Porsche would definitely be an appealing change, plus I really like the 992 overall.

Similar as me. I’ve had all three series models including the E21 and two of each for some models. Add a couple of funfers and the tally is well into double digits. The only one I haven’t liked is the F10 and the F80 has been relatively so-so and I never loved it on the street.

I do love everything about our Cayenne (except anything needing a dealer visit) for what it is and a test drive of the 992 was bliss. I like what I see with the G8X but in many ways it’s similar to the F80 so I’m leaning towards the 992. Adding another ulcer inducing P-car dealer visit reason is the main reason I have doubts.