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      Yesterday, 01:45 PM   #89
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It might be great to drive but I don't know how anyone justifies buying a car that looks so atrocious. Thankfully the G87 M2 isn't too far into the future for those who want the S58 in a decent looking package (if the current renders are to be believed).
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      Yesterday, 01:47 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by tna3 View Post
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
He was driving the DCT in auto. Why would you do that on a track and then complain it couldn't read your mind?
Because most transmission programming have gotten so good even professional race cars drivers leave it to the cars brains. The paddles have been rendered useless IMO and there are too many gears to keep track of. You can't beat the computer. If you want to do it yourself, manual is the way to go.
True. Also, the 8 ZF isn't really suited for manual mode like the DCT.
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      Yesterday, 01:48 PM   #91
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Wow, I actually learned a few things from that video...although I never thought I'd hear Cammisa say he would take an automatic over a manual transmission...
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      Yesterday, 02:09 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by tna3 View Post
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
He was driving the DCT in auto. Why would you do that on a track and then complain it couldn't read your mind?
Because most transmission programming have gotten so good even professional race cars drivers leave it to the cars brains. The paddles have been rendered useless IMO and there are too many gears to keep track of. You can't beat the computer. If you want to do it yourself, manual is the way to go.
True. Also, the 8 ZF isn't really suited for manual mode like the DCT.
It's not?
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      Yesterday, 02:36 PM   #93
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I like when the media doesn't take themselves too seriously.

Jason did an entertaining analysis of the M3 lineage.

Well done!
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      Yesterday, 02:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I completely agree.

My point is in most sub-communities of the overall BMW community and overall car enthusiast community, the new design m3/m4 is (at worst) 50% well received. A lot of us didn't like it initially because it was such a huge change, some of us still don't like it, but in general the opinion (as well as a poll conducted here) for people that have actually seen the car is 50% for, 50% against.

The CS community it's about 99% against, 1% for. Now, why would that be? Lol.
Looking at the G8X forum activity/comments and G8X's that have sat on my local dealers lots even during this car shortage, I'd argue there is way more than 50% against. After briefly driving a Sao Paulo G82, there's no question the car performs better than my F80 and the interior is stunning, but that's about it.

Preference differs, but there's not one exterior line on the car that is more attractive than an F8X CS model. Even if your anecdotal "50% for" sample size poll number is correct, I believe there's significantly less people willing to put money down for a G8X; yet the F8X keeps marching up in resale. My guess, in one year your used G80 could be worth less than your used F80 CS.
Tell everybody which dealership.
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      Yesterday, 03:21 PM   #95
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CS owners in general seem to be very protective of their badge? Progress is always great!
CS owners are the most resistant to the G80. They went from being the "kings" of the F80 to just another owner of a prior gen m3. No better than people that own a limerock E92 lol.

FYI, I still own my CS so I'm allowed to talk sh*t.
Is that how they feel? I wish I owned one so I can really find out
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      Yesterday, 05:53 PM   #96
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Yeah I hate my car too!!
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      Yesterday, 06:26 PM   #97
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I love his title at the end of the film
I caught that and it made me lol
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      Yesterday, 09:07 PM   #98
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Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I still can't get over the grill.

Every single time I see the G8X front end I'm less stressed about having to wait so long for my C8 Z06.

After 11 new vehicles purchased from BMW, this will be the first time I step away from the brand.
You are not alone. I saw my first m4 in the wild today and I can't get past the grills either. Combined with the nose effect from the hood it's too much for my eyes. I also really dislike the black painted side skirts and bumper parts. That stuff should be body color.
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      Today, 12:22 AM   #99
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Hi, guys, Jason here. Whoa, lots of commentary. I'll quickly address a few questions:

Randy typically will only use automatic mode if the transmission is programmed well enough that it's in the right gear on its own. He did set the fast lap on the G80 M3C in auto + most aggressive mode because it was programmed well.

However, even if he manually called for downshifts with the paddle, which he did on the warmup laps, the transmission wouldn't give him the downshift.

If I remember from the VBox files, which I literally haven't looked at since we were filming, all of the 3/4-second advantage of the M4 Manual came from that hairpin.

The tires on the M3C were brand-new. Used only to drive to the track and then set the lap. The M4's actually were pre-abused, so we were shocked it posted the times it did.

Again, I need to look at the data again but I think the max speeds on the straights were almost identical. Which was surprising.

For those who asked: didn't mention the E36 just because it was a logistical impossibility for us to have any more cars there. As it was, this was a monster for us to produce.

And as for my comment on the F80? Umm, sorry to those who own one. It finally got good at the end — the Competition was really improved. But it's not in the same league as the G80; not in handling, certainly. It was a very good-looking car, though.

And yeah that M3C did look incredible in the Frozen blue. I was originally going to do the episode with the yellow M4 but then we'd have had to look at it. Also, I really preferred the auto. Which is something I hate to admit - but that manual?

Look, if you want a manual, you want a manual. So, at least it's there. But, much like the E60 M5, it feels like BMW AG phoned it in just to please BMW NA. :/
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      Today, 12:36 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post
Hi, guys, Jason here. Whoa, lots of commentary. I'll quickly address a few questions:

Randy typically will only use automatic mode if the transmission is programmed well enough that it's in the right gear on its own. He did set the fast lap on the G80 M3C in auto + most aggressive mode because it was programmed well.

However, even if he manually called for downshifts with the paddle, which he did on the warmup laps, the transmission wouldn't give him the downshift.

If I remember from the VBox files, which I literally haven't looked at since we were filming, all of the 3/4-second advantage of the M4 Manual came from that hairpin.

The tires on the M3C were brand-new. Used only to drive to the track and then set the lap. The M4's actually were pre-abused, so we were shocked it posted the times it did.

Again, I need to look at the data again but I think the max speeds on the straights were almost identical. Which was surprising.

For those who asked: didn't mention the E36 just because it was a logistical impossibility for us to have any more cars there. As it was, this was a monster for us to produce.

And as for my comment on the F80? Umm, sorry to those who own one. It finally got good at the end — the Competition was really improved. But it's not in the same league as the G80; not in handling, certainly. It was a very good-looking car, though.

And yeah that M3C did look incredible in the Frozen blue. I was originally going to do the episode with the yellow M4 but then we'd have had to look at it. Also, I really preferred the auto. Which is something I hate to admit - but that manual?

Look, if you want a manual, you want a manual. So, at least it's there. But, much like the E60 M5, it feels like BMW AG phoned it in just to please BMW NA. :/
Thank you, and kudos to you and your team on a truly fantastic piece of journalism and art.
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      Today, 01:24 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I still can't get over the grill.

Every single time I see the G8X front end I'm less stressed about having to wait so long for my C8 Z06.

After 11 new vehicles purchased from BMW, this will be the first time I step away from the brand.
Even if the G80 is better, I am still super happy to have this in my fleet.
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      Today, 01:38 AM   #102
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Excellent video with a lot of vital history on the M3 origins. As much as I love the outstanding performance of the G80 M3, the front end has me yearning for the new M2 instead. Lets home this car is not another super model with two nostrils bigger than her eyes again.
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      Today, 04:27 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
See the prior post. Have you driven the car yet? As a CS owner of 2.5 years I can say that the G80 is an improvement in every single way…also, it does not hurt to have a center console haha.

I understand a lot of where you're coming from and a lot of people don't like the design sure. CS owners disproportionately HATE the design.
Yes, was invited by my dealer when they arrived.
No denying that they do feel good and handles well, however for me it was no better than the M4 CS I own.

For a car that looks nowhere as good as the CS, and on top does not significantly outperforms it, it's a clear pass for me.


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Originally Posted by LBbluem2 View Post
It'll smoke f8x CS

No doubt
Useless comment without facts.
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      Today, 04:52 AM   #104
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Everyone in the F80/F82 CS Facebook group should watch this. When I tell them I prefer the way the G80 drives compared to my F80 CS they invariably reply "obviously that's because you never tracked the CS," to which I reply "yes I did many times."
Jason didn't waste any time on the F80. He graded it one of the worst M3/4 cars just like Topgear did a while back. Just wonder why since it still is one of the most engaging cars I've ever driven.

I understand that the G80 is better balanced, but still, just shortcutting it out of the M3/4 history is a bit harsh, no?
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      Today, 04:56 AM   #105
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Everyone in the F80/F82 CS Facebook group should watch this. When I tell them I prefer the way the G80 drives compared to my F80 CS they invariably reply "obviously that's because you never tracked the CS," to which I reply "yes I did many times."
Jason didn't waste any time on the F80. He graded it one of the worst M3/4 cars just like Topgear did a while back. Just wonder why since it still is one of the most engaging cars I've ever driven.

I understand that the G80 is better balanced, but still, just shortcutting it out of the M3/4 history is a bit harsh, no?
I would agree especially given the F80 sold so well and is so beloved. I LOVE my CS. I am getting shoulder surgery tomorrow and will be driving it until I can drive 6MT again and I'm really looking forward to it.
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      Today, 05:17 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post

And as for my comment on the F80? Umm, sorry to those who own one. It finally got good at the end — the Competition was really improved. But it's not in the same league as the G80; not in handling, certainly. It was a very good-looking car, though.

:/
As I understood, much of the initial criticism was addressed after the first year of production. The snappy oversteer and the feeling that "it wanted to kill you", vanished as from 2016 production and not only in competition guise. As I'am not mistaken, much was related to the differential set-up.

The few occassions I drove it, it excelled because of its torquey engine, aggressive DTC, nimble dynamics (felt light weight) and on the few mild oversteer hairpin exits I provoked, it felt progressive.

Nonetheless, I understand the G80 is an entire level beter.
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      Today, 07:54 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post

And as for my comment on the F80? Umm, sorry to those who own one. It finally got good at the end — the Competition was really improved. But it's not in the same league as the G80; not in handling, certainly. It was a very good-looking car, though.

:/
As I understood, much of the initial criticism was addressed after the first year of production. The snappy oversteer and the feeling that "it wanted to kill you", vanished as from 2016 production and not only in competition guise. As I'am not mistaken, much was related to the differential set-up.

The few occassions I drove it, it excelled because of its torquey engine, aggressive DTC, nimble dynamics (felt light weight) and on the few mild oversteer hairpin exits I provoked, it felt progressive.

Nonetheless, I understand the G80 is an entire level beter.
I had a 2016 F80 (6/16 production) that wanted to kill me each and every time I drove it…
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      Today, 08:12 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
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Originally Posted by tna3 View Post
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Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
He was driving the DCT in auto. Why would you do that on a track and then complain it couldn't read your mind?
Because most transmission programming have gotten so good even professional race cars drivers leave it to the cars brains. The paddles have been rendered useless IMO and there are too many gears to keep track of. You can't beat the computer. If you want to do it yourself, manual is the way to go.
True. Also, the 8 ZF isn't really suited for manual mode like the DCT.
It's not?
No, it's not. Not as satisfying in my experience (especially downshifts). That's the biggest downside to the 8ZF in my opinion. Otherwise, it's super.
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