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      12-09-2017, 05:12 AM   #89
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Please BMW, can we have an engine that doesn’t have crank hub issues, rod bearing issues, Nikasil blocks, etc..?

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      12-09-2017, 06:38 AM   #90
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Wow, these production runs are getting much shorter...the E9X M3 was produced 2007-2013! The F8X, 2015-2018 ?

GM
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      12-09-2017, 07:03 AM   #91
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Wow, these production runs are getting much shorter...the E9X M3 was produced 2007-2013! The F8X, 2015-2018?
No. It is a common mistake to confuse the production window of one model with the production window of the model family.

E90 M3: 2008 - 2011 (MY2008 - MY2011)
E92/3 M3: 2008 - 2013 (MY2008 - MY2013)

F80 M3: 2014 - 2018 (MY2015 - MY2018)
F82/3 M4: 2014 - 2020 (MY2015 - MY2020)

So, the reality is the F8x M3/M4 will actually be in production roughly a year longer than their E9x M3 counterparts.

FAQ:

Q: Why do the two-door M models go longer?
A: Because the Series two-door models they are based on go later.

Q: Ok, but why do the Series two-door models go later?
A: Because they debut later.

Q: Alright, but why do they debut later?
A: Because auto manufacturers stagger product releases to minimize risk and spread costs.

Q: Fine. But then why doesn't the M3 sedan start commensurately sooner?
A: Because of the familial shared parts that are plucked from the late-arriving Series two-door.

Q: Wow, that’s a bummer for sedan buyers. Will they ever rectify this?
A: Only if M3 revenue were to become large enough to warrant separation from the M4.
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      12-09-2017, 07:42 AM   #92
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No hips but rear end is looking nice....
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      12-09-2017, 08:02 AM   #93
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Very interesting I knew this was the way it went, had never heard the actual explanation...points to you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
No. It is a common mistake to confuse the production window of one model with the production window of the model family.

E90 M3: 2008 - 2011 (MY2008 - MY2011)
E92/3 M3: 2008 - 2013 (MY2008 - MY2013)

F80 M3: 2014 - 2018 (MY2015 - MY2018)
F82/3 M4: 2014 - 2020 (MY2015 - MY2020)

So, the reality is the F8x M3/M4 will actually be in production roughly a year longer than their E9x M3 counterparts.

FAQ:

Q: Why do the two-door M models go longer?
A: Because the Series two-door models they are based on go later.

Q: Ok, but why do the Series two-door models go later?
A: Because they debut later.

Q: Alright, but why do they debut later?
A: Because auto manufacturers stagger product releases to minimize risk and spread costs.

Q: Fine. But then why doesn't the M3 sedan start commensurately sooner?
A: Because of the familial shared parts that are plucked from the late-arriving Series two-door.

Q: Wow, thatís a bummer for sedan buyers. Will they ever rectify this?
A: Only if M3 revenue were to become large enough to warrant separation from the M4.
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      12-09-2017, 08:23 AM   #94
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XDrive w manual please
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      12-09-2017, 08:53 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHE///MIST3 View Post
Wow, these production runs are getting much shorter...the E9X M3 was produced 2007-2013! The F8X, 2015-2018 ?

GM
I was thinking the same
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      12-09-2017, 09:15 AM   #96
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What's the advantage for the end user?
The advantages of platform/drivetrain sharing come from economies for scale. Some obvious pros are:

Keeps the cost down for both the manufacturer and the end user.
R&D learned from higher end models trickle down faster
You essentially get more bang for the buck in lower priced models. For example, I believe same DCT and rear diff is used in both M5 and M3, so when you buy an M3, at least in paper, you are getting over engineered components.
Better parts availability when it is time for service
Engine/gearbox tuning and upgrade costs will be lower
etc.

Some cons of sharing:
Defects will have a ripple effect
Smaller cars that share the same platform might end up becoming heavier than competition
Your car may not feel "special" or whatever that means

Anyway, no matter what, new M3 going to be better in every measurable way. Heck, I don't mind if they simply just drop in the new M5's AWD V8 drivetrain and just call it a day. But it looks like it'll share the engine with the X3M so most likely it will have an option for AWD.
If 911 can have AWD, M3 should have an optional AWD too, even if it rustles the jimmies of so called purists.
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      12-09-2017, 09:19 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XsltAnalyst View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
What's the advantage for the end user?
The advantages of platform/drivetrain sharing come from economies for scale. Some obvious pros are:

Keeps the cost down for both the manufacturer and the end user.
R&D learned from higher end models trickle down faster
You essentially get more bang for the buck in lower priced models. For example, I believe same DCT and rear diff is used in both M5 and M3, so when you buy an M3, at least in paper, you are getting over engineered components.
Better parts availability when it is time for service
Engine/gearbox tuning and upgrade costs will be lower
etc.

Some cons of sharing:
Defects will have a ripple effect
Smaller cars that share the same platform might end up becoming heavier than competition
Your car may not feel "special" or whatever that means

Anyway, no matter what, new M3 going to be better in every measurable way. Heck, I don't mind if they simply just drop in the new M5's AWD V8 drivetrain and just call it a day. But it looks like it'll share the engine with the X3M so most likely it will have an option for AWD.
If 911 can have AWD, M3 should have an optional AWD too, even if it rustles the jimmies of so called purists.
Very speculative post. I do believe you have not own an M and the F80 is your first M. M stands for exclusivity. Owners aren't looking to share interiors, engines, suspension components, chassis etc with other platforms. None of the previous E90 owners that I know currently own F80/F82. This new parts bin concept has work for BMW to expand its market share to new customers but has loyal the most sacred thing a brand can have: Customer Loyalty
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      12-09-2017, 09:26 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3welt View Post
Not a fan of an xdrive M3/4. Get an Audi if you suck at driving or drive in the snow. M3 is supposed to be a fun lightweight sedan. Not a do everything car.
If 911 can have an optional AWD then I think M3 should have one too.
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      12-09-2017, 09:29 AM   #99
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AWD that can be switched off, 6MT, 500 hp. Sounds like a winning mix to me, I haven't tested an F80 ZCP but my base F80 had a tough time putting down that power, I'm all for awd with high HP high torque cars.
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      12-09-2017, 09:49 AM   #100
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Only time I will consider the AWD as being acceptable for the M3/M4 platform is when you can do RWD mode in MDM and not completely turn off traction. No one wants to drive an m5 with 600hp without traction control in order to get the feeling of driving rwd, so that feature is rarely ever going to get used.
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      12-09-2017, 09:59 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Only time I will consider the AWD as being acceptable for the M3/M4 platform is when you can do RWD mode in MDM and not completely turn off traction. No one wants to drive an m5 with 600hp without traction control in order to get the feeling of driving rwd, so that feature is rarely ever going to get used.
100% agree... I think alot of people are missing this fine detail.. That a BIG BIG issue, and kinda pointless.
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      12-09-2017, 10:35 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Only time I will consider the AWD as being acceptable for the M3/M4 platform is when you can do RWD mode in MDM and not completely turn off traction. No one wants to drive an m5 with 600hp without traction control in order to get the feeling of driving rwd, so that feature is rarely ever going to get used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
100% agree... I think alot of people are missing this fine detail.. That a BIG BIG issue, and kinda pointless.
I agree with you both, that having a true RWD option, with the ability to have the nannies on or not, is what they will need to include if they want people to get on board with the idea on an M3/4.

But I don't have much hope for that - given the shift we are seeing, in terms of the "sharing" between standard cars and M cars, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the M3/4 follow the M5's script. I mean, BMW has already developed the requisite software and whatnot. If they can't even be bothered to have a new, exciting engine for the M3/4 or M5, why they hell would they bother with a different AWD --> RWD setup?

Just my $.02...
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      12-09-2017, 11:03 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1camaro View Post
Only time I will consider the AWD as being acceptable for the M3/M4 platform is when you can do RWD mode in MDM and not completely turn off traction. No one wants to drive an m5 with 600hp without traction control in order to get the feeling of driving rwd, so that feature is rarely ever going to get used.
100% agree... I think alot of people are missing this fine detail.. That a BIG BIG issue, and kinda pointless.
Just modulate the throttle. I mean, F1 drivers do it...
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      12-09-2017, 11:07 AM   #104
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I love M but I don't think this new generation will be for me. It's going in a direction that just isnt pleasing to me. I will keep my e46 till the wheels fall off. Enjoyed my F80 but sold it after a year of ownership.
Looking to get into a Porsche next, even though some of the "lower" models are a bit stale as well.
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      12-09-2017, 11:13 AM   #105
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-- choice of 6 speed manual or 8 speed automatic
-- may be optional AWD M xDrive (as used on the F90 M5)
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      12-09-2017, 11:22 AM   #106
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My list of wants/needs:

1.) 500 HP / 450 TQ (Give or Take)
2.) Weigh less than 3,500 LBS
3.) 6MT Option
4.) AWD option
5.) Finally a brutish exhaust
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      12-09-2017, 11:30 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Just modulate the throttle. I mean, F1 drivers do it...

I like being able to cheat MDM and RWD with alot of power.. I want to be as lazy as i want, irresponsible with the throttle and not get in trouble
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      12-09-2017, 11:36 AM   #108
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If they do use a Modified B58 version to power the next M3, S58, i wonder if it will have any new tech that we can actually use and feel as a driver.

The S55 already has the B58's closed deck, mechanical pump with map thermostat, multiple electric coolant pumps, indirect charge air cooling, arc sprayed cylinder liners and etc.
There has been changes to vanos location to the rear but same principle operation, and there also has been changes in the B58 to a valvetronic4 but again, about the same operating principle with nothing ground breaking there.

The S55 is based off the N55, but also took alot of the B58's tech prior to its release..
My guess is there is gonna be a even smaller change from the B58 to the S58, compared to the N55 to S55 changes.
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Last edited by 5soko; 12-09-2017 at 12:04 PM..
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      12-09-2017, 11:43 AM   #109
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Can't wait to see 17 year olds zipping around in AW G30 M3s woohoo...nothing special about M3s anymore. Every rich kid has one.
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      12-09-2017, 12:03 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
None of the previous E90 owners that I know currently own F80/F82. This new parts bin concept has work for BMW to expand its market share to new customers but has loyal the most sacred thing a brand can have: Customer Loyalty
Pleased to meet you. Iím coming all the way from the E36.

I loved the E90 for 6 amazing years, and Iím enjoying the F80 equally (actually enjoy it more on track). And I think you are mistaken about what the M3 owners want in their cars - itís not exclusivity (go buy a Porsche or McLaren). Itís simply having a car that can go to Home Depot one day, take the kids to school the next and go romping around a track on the weekend. Itís a feeling of being able to shake the commmuting blues at a momentís notice, and transform into a taut, fast, responsive car that can fill you with adrenaline whenever you want.

There is no exclusivity at all when you drive something based on a $30,000 sedan. None whatsoever.
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