[aimetti]

My ram averaged about 13/14. Can't be that bad right ?

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by Jproos

I don't see us getting on the same page here.

I think it's clear the the relevant M settings change the performance of the car not just what my foot feels from the throttle pedal. What your foot feels is what I thought you were talking about. Maybe I misunderstood.

If you see the M settings differently, that's cool.

Yeah, you keep using the word "feel", not sure why. To be clear, NO settings change how the pedal feels. It only changes what happens when you push the pedal partway. So, as an illustration, if you push the pedal down 1 inch in Sport Plus, that gives the engine more gas than down 1 inch in efficient. No difference in feeling. Compare that with the steering settings. That ONLY changes the feel, it does not change the wheel behavior. So, the force required to move the wheel to the right 45 degrees in sport is higher than in comfort, BUT, the wheels will be in exactly the same place.

You said (at least I thought you did), that the engine settings must also change the fuel maps and will have an impact on gas mileage. And, well, I guess it sort of does impact gas mileage, because it's easier to "give it more gas" when in sport/sport plus, but that's an indirect effect.

But then you also said "people would have noticed a long time ago the M buttons are just gimmicks." Which is a whole different thing. Are you taking about the M1/M2 buttons? Definitely not gimmicks. They are preset buttons, much like the radio presets. They can be set to whatever you want. Without the buttons, you'd have to independently change each setting every time. What a pain. Not sure why you brought in the buttons into the conversation.

It is hard to have these discussions online, we both could be talking past each other. I'm genuinely interested in evidence to the contrary, but haven't seen it yet.

[Jproos]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Yeah, you keep using the word "feel", not sure why. To be clear, NO settings change how the pedal feels. It only changes what happens when you push the pedal partway. So, as an illustration, if you push the pedal down 1 inch in Sport Plus, that gives the engine more gas than down 1 inch in efficient. No difference in feeling. Compare that with the steering settings. That ONLY changes the feel, it does not change the wheel behavior. So, the force required to move the wheel to the right 45 degrees in sport is higher than in comfort, BUT, the wheels will be in exactly the same place.

You said (at least I thought you did), that the engine settings must also change the fuel maps and will have an impact on gas mileage. And, well, I guess it sort of does impact gas mileage, because it's easier to "give it more gas" when in sport/sport plus, but that's an indirect effect.

But then you also said "people would have noticed a long time ago the M buttons are just gimmicks." Which is a whole different thing. Are you taking about the M1/M2 buttons? Definitely not gimmicks. They are preset buttons, much like the radio presets. They can be set to whatever you want. Without the buttons, you'd have to independently change each setting every time. What a pain. Not sure why you brought in the buttons into the conversation.

It is hard to have these discussions online, we both could be talking past each other. I'm genuinely interested in evidence to the contrary, but haven't seen it yet.

Ya, I'm pretty sure we're talking past each other.

I went back and reread your first message on this and I think I probably read into what you were saying. 'Sensitivity' I think led me to think you were talking about what your foot is feeling ( e.g. how the pedal feels to your foot)

My thought is the M settings, and the M buttons by extension, do change the car's performance in a very noticeable way. For example, boost builds much faster in sport+ vs comfort.

I think we agree on that thought. If we don't then I guess I don't know what you're saying and that's fine. You don't owe me the time/effort it would take to sort out the confusion.

[BIGW0RM]

I get 18mpg around suburbia while in break in mode.

Do we have a trip A and trip B though?

[zambarossa]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

I get 18mpg around suburbia while in break in mode.

Do we have a trip A and trip B though?

There is individual, trip, last fillup and factory. Should be enough, no?

[GixY2K]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

It’s like being behind, or in front of, a new rider on a liter bike they can’t ride or handle. They open it up on every straight, then awkwardly go around corners at 15 mph, then gun it again when the corner’s over. With 3 inch chicken strips on a 195 width race tire

I always started at the back of the pack, just to challenge myself. And on a good riding day would see 48/48 deg. lean angle on 200 street tires, which would get most of the chicken strips.

Quit when I saw two riders in our pack being medevac'd out of the Rockie mountains a couple of years back (after riding for 40 years). I always knew we were pushing it on public roads on borrowed time and should've instead done track days, but realized that the only difference was going to be broken bones vs. complete fatality. One thing is for sure, 186mph feels a whole lot faster when you're not inside a cage

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by Jproos

Ya, I'm pretty sure we're talking past each other.

I went back and reread your first message on this and I think I probably read into what you were saying. 'Sensitivity' I think led me to think you were talking about what your foot is feeling ( e.g. how the pedal feels to your foot)

My thought is the M settings, and the M buttons by extension, do change the car's performance in a very noticeable way. For example, boost builds much faster in sport+ vs comfort.

I think we agree on that thought. If we don't then I guess I don't know what you're saying and that's fine. You don't owe me the time/effort it would take to sort out the confusion.

Going back and reading what I’ve missed, I THINK I generally agree with Jproos and disagree with jimbethesda on this one. Even though I know the owners manual, and quite possibly the underlying correctness, is on jimbethesda’s side.

In my 2018 STi, the different modes simply did what jb is saying (and there were cheesy little graphs to show it visually). The tamest mode made you floor it, literally, to floor it. Then sport got you to flooring it functionally, an inch or two before the pedal hit the floor. And sport plus was pretty useless to me - an inch or two of travel was all is took to floor it. The rest of the pedal travel in sport plus was just a waste of foot and leg effort. That’s what jb is saying the modes do in G8x cars. That’s what the owner’s manual appears to say (he quoted it earlier in this thread). But I’m still with Jproos on this one, as wrong as we may actually be. I believe that the modes are changing more than just the responsiveness of the pedal. I believe other things (fueling etc.) are also being changed (even though I’m likely wrong). If some of you don’t mind, I’m curious what happens when you try the following, because I tried it, and my mpg dropped (yes I know this isn’t a scientific, controlled test, but I was curious). Cruise down the highway in 6th at 65 in comfort/efficient. Watch the real time mpg on the dash. Then switch to sport and cruise at the same speed. My mpg drops. Then sport plus. It drops again. If jb is right, then the car, on the same road, at the same speed, on the same day/temp etc, should simply be doing the same thing under the hood and the only difference would be how far the go pedal is pressed down. At least in my car, the mpg drops in the sportier modes.

Next I’m gonna try the same thing, but using cruise control.

I think the sport button does more than change pedal sensitivity, but officially it appears I’m wrong. I’ve thought this since my ‘02 e46 M3.

And btw, maybe one more thing I’m actually wrong about? The “sport” mode for the brakes absolutely makes my brake pedal FEEL stiffer. No way that setting only changes the sensitivity of the pedal. It’s a noticeably stiffer pedal, in my car, when I change from comfort to sport braking.

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by GixY2K

I always started at the back of the pack, just to challenge myself. And on a good riding day would see 48/48 deg. lean angle on 200 street tires, which would get most of the chicken strips.

Quit when I saw two riders in our pack being medevac'd out of the Rockie mountains a couple of years back (after riding for 40 years). I always knew we were pushing it on public roads on borrowed time and should've instead done track days, but realized that the only difference was going to be broken bones vs. complete fatality. One thing is for sure, 186mph feels a whole lot faster when you're not inside a cage

I’m sorry you had to see that and go through it with your friends. I hope they were OK!! I never even approach 10/10ths on the street - bike or car. It’s simply unsafe (setting aside the financial and liability risks). I don’t care how accomplished a rider or driver someone is - public roads have potholes, oil, deer, other small critters, downed trees, gravel, other drivers who aren’t terrible, bicyclists, distracted drivers on their phones who ARE terrible, pedestrians, and countless other unpredictable obstacles - all without corner workers and flags. In no way was I advocating for track-style riding on the streets. I was just poking fun at over-vehicled riders who go 10/10ths in a straight line and need training wheels to take a 25mph corner at 25. I’m not a pro - I’m waaaay faster on a lightweight 600 naked than I am on a track replica liter bike. Every few years I get the itch to buy another ZX-10r or similar (last fall it was a Monster 1200S…minimally more comfortable, but not enough to ride it more than 6 times and sell it.) So overdone for the street, that at any reasonable, legal speed through the twisties, it’s beyond boring because the bike is just so bored cornering at 45 mph.

Sorry to go off topic. Back on topic - tuned liter bikes’ mpg sucks too. But still better than a G8x.

[Jproos]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Going back and reading what I've missed, I THINK I generally agree with Jproos and disagree with jimbethesda on this one. Even though I know the owners manual, and quite possibly the underlying correctness, is on jimbethesda's side.

In my 2018 STi, the different modes simply did what jb is saying (and there were cheesy little graphs to show it visually). The tamest mode made you floor it, literally, to floor it. Then sport got you to flooring it functionally, an inch or two before the pedal hit the floor. And sport plus was pretty useless to me - an inch or two of travel was all is took to floor it. The rest of the pedal travel in sport plus was just a waste of foot and leg effort. That's what jb is saying the modes do in G8x cars. That's what the owner's manual appears to say (he quoted it earlier in this thread). But I'm still with Jproos on this one, as wrong as we may actually be. I believe that the modes are changing more than just the responsiveness of the pedal. I believe other things (fueling etc.) are also being changed (even though I'm likely wrong). If some of you don't mind, I'm curious what happens when you try the following, because I tried it, and my mpg dropped (yes I know this isn't a scientific, controlled test, but I was curious). Cruise down the highway in 6th at 65 in comfort/efficient. Watch the real time mpg on the dash. Then switch to sport and cruise at the same speed. My mpg drops. Then sport plus. It drops again. If jb is right, then the car, on the same road, at the same speed, on the same day/temp etc, should simply be doing the same thing under the hood and the only difference would be how far the go pedal is pressed down. At least in my car, the mpg drops in the sportier modes.

Next I'm gonna try the same thing, but using cruise control.

I think the sport button does more than change pedal sensitivity, but officially it appears I'm wrong. I've thought this since my '02 e46 M3.

And btw, maybe one more thing I'm actually wrong about? The "sport" mode for the brakes absolutely makes my brake pedal FEEL stiffer. No way that setting only changes the sensitivity of the pedal. It's a noticeably stiffer pedal, in my car, when I change from comfort to sport braking.

I wonder if jb and I have different ideas about what 'sensitivity of the pedal' means.

I have no doubt the engine is more responsive to the same throttle input when in Sport and Sport+. I suppose I could be wrong but I think I'd lose trust in all of my senses if I was.

I don't read the blurb from the manual quoted above to be in conflict with my view. It reads, to me, like language that went through lawyers with the goal of being as non-specific as possible.

I mean no offense to jb. Hopefully saying that doesn't make seem like I really do. 😀

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by Jproos

I wonder if jb and I have different ideas about what 'sensitivity of the pedal' means.

I have no doubt the engine is more responsive to the same throttle input when in Sport and Sport+. I suppose I could be wrong but I think I'd lose trust in all of my senses if I was.

I don't read the blurb from the manual quoted above to be in conflict with my view. It reads, to me, like language that went through lawyers with the goal of being as non-specific as possible.

I mean no offense to jb. Hopefully saying that doesn't make seem like I really do. 😀

Nobody is taking this personally. I think we all genuinely want to know.

jb thinks (correct me if I’m wrong) that at 3 different spots in the physical pedal travel, that the actual throttle input is the same across the 3 modes. And that the fueling maps and everything else going on with the car, are the same (just that it takes decreasing amounts of pressing on the go pedal to get there, with each change to a sportier mode).

I don’t agree. I think the mode is changing more than jb thinks it is. And MY car, fueled by my credit card at the pump, is definitely thirstier in sport, and thirstiest in sport plus. Even when I (think I) drive it the same way.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Nobody is taking this personally. I think we all genuinely want to know.

jb thinks (correct me if I’m wrong) that at 3 different spots in the physical pedal travel, that the actually throttle input is the same across the 3 modes. And that the fueling maps and everything else going on with the car, are the same (just that it takes decreasing amounts of pressing on the go pedal to get there, with each change to a sportier mode).

I don’t agree. I think the mode is changing more than jb thinks it is. And MY car, fueled by my credit card at the pump, is definitely thirstier in sport, and thirstiest in sport plus. Even when I (think I) drive it the same way.

Here's a data point to throw into the mix. Launch control has no requirement for this setting. It requires the fastest transmission setting (S3) and requires traction control to be off. Why not require the engine dynamic setting to be sport plus?

Seems like this is another bullet point on why this only changes peddle sensitivity. You mash the accelerator pedal all the way down, which would be identical in all 3 settings.

And +1 on not taking it personally. I really want to know too.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Cruise down the highway in 6th at 65 in comfort/efficient. Watch the real time mpg on the dash. Then switch to sport and cruise at the same speed. My mpg drops. Then sport plus. It drops again. If jb is right, then the car, on the same road, at the same speed, on the same day/temp etc, should simply be doing the same thing under the hood and the only difference would be how far the go pedal is pressed down. At least in my car, the mpg drops in the sportier modes

I like this. I’m going to try this too.

[HorsePower]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Here's a data point to throw into the mix. Launch control has no requirement for this setting. It requires the fastest transmission setting (S3) and requires traction control to be off. Why not require the engine dynamic setting to be sport plus?

Seems like this is another bullet point on why this only changes peddle sensitivity. You mash the accelerator pedal all the way down, which would be identical in all 3 settings.

And +1 on not taking it personally. I really want to know too.

Easy potential explanation. The car is a big computer. When launch control activates (which is, in a way, the most sport-plus-ey mode of all), perhaps the car’s brain just puts it functionally in sport plus for the launch. Who knows. And why, then, doesn’t it just do that with the trans setting too? Who knows. It’s designed by the same people who didn’t allow the M-mode HUD to be selected otherwise, and a ton of other head scratchers on these cars.

Just curious, but if nothing is changing about the way the car runs, fueling etc. when you change engine modes, how is the popping, burbling etc. changing. It’s not just through the speakers. When I idle in sport or sport plus and stand outside the warmed-up car, even the idle has faint pops etc. It’s a much more aggressive idle, than the comfort/efficient mode’s idle. And it’s not just the valve. It’s the way the car is running IMO.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

Easy potential explanation. The car is a big computer. When launch control activates (which is, in a way, the most sport-plus-ey mode of all), perhaps the car’s brain just puts it functionally in sport plus for the launch. Who knows. And why, then, doesn’t it just do that with the trans setting too? Who knows. It’s designed by the same people who didn’t allow the M-mode HUD to be selected otherwise, and a ton of other head scratchers on these cars.

Just curious, but if nothing is changing about the way the car runs, fueling etc. when you change engine modes, how is the popping, burbling etc. changing. It’s not just through the speakers. When I idle in sport or sport plus and stand outside the warmed-up car, even the idle has faint pops etc. It’s a much more aggressive idle, than the comfort/efficient mode’s idle. And it’s not just the valve. It’s the way the car is running IMO.

Good point. I'm going to try to do some experiments. I might email BMW Genius too.

[Jproos]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Here's a data point to throw into the mix. Launch control has no requirement for this setting. It requires the fastest transmission setting (S3) and requires traction control to be off. Why not require the engine dynamic setting to be sport plus?

Seems like this is another bullet point on why this only changes peddle sensitivity. You mash the accelerator pedal all the way down, which would be identical in all 3 settings.

And +1 on not taking it personally. I really want to know too.

Maybe because launch control is its own system? They could certainly do whatever they want with the fuel map in launch control mode, I think. They're already managing the boost.

[FlyByNite]

Stupid ass thread. You own an M3. You can afford the gas!! Never mind Brandon!

[Ruyseart]

I have my G82 since tuesday and I'm averaging 16-18mpg in suburban area.
I don't complain, I just would have liked a bigger capacity of the fuel tank.

[filostrato]

Gas milage for manual drivers is significantly worse without the additional 2 gears. But it's a small price to pay for more fun behind the wheel IMO.

It would be nice if BMW offered the option of a larger capacity fuel tank
Getting around 20mpg in mixed driving

[Sebflorida]

I can hit 19 if I’m grandma driving on the highway. 13 city

[nathanm4]

I might get 10 mpg avg. I was spending $600 per month on gas.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Sebflorida

I can hit 19 if I’m grandma driving on the highway. 13 city

That makes zero sense to me. If I drive like grandma like I did in the break-in period I was getting 26 miles to the gallon on the highway. I never let it go above 3000 RPM during break-in. Now I drive half the time like that and the other half I’d beat the hell out of the car and I still average 20 miles per gallon. I’ll get around 17 miles per gallon if most of that type of driving, grandma/spirited is in the city.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by nathanm4

I might get 10 mpg avg. I was spending $600 per month on gas.

What are you pulling a boat or something?

Seriously if you really are only getting 10 mpg you have something seriously wrong with your car. I imagine you’d get more than that even if every time you drove it you floored it from stop sign a stop sign and red light to red light and you did 150 mph down the highway every single drive.