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      12-03-2020, 11:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by snareman View Post
Most people aren't even going to use the capabilities of the regular 3/4 series. My friend in Germany said, what do you guys do with those cars over there? You can't actually use them. [as in the power and performance with normal every day driving]. I had a F32 435i for three years before my F82 M4 and also would occasionally get a F30 loaner. The driving differences were immediately noticeable and surprisingly obvious in the stiffness of the suspension. The F30s almost felt like I get getting into a Lexus after driving the M. While I do like the increase performance, I also like the more sporty looks of the M's, which is a decent part of what I'm willing to pay for. I'm guessing that the G's will have similar differences?

You’re absolutely right. When I came to Germany 2.5 years ago I brought my E92 along with me and although I took a few chances driving fast in the states, being able to consistently get the car to 5000 RPM and keep it there has been wonderful. Really dreading going back next May lol.
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      12-03-2020, 02:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
Seriously? I've heard great things about the Macan. But it drives better than the M340i?
That really depends on how you define "better," which is ultimately only something only you can decide for yourself.

But to my tastes--which seem to align somewhat with yours, based on what you've said--yes. The Macan has a shorter wheelbase, a wider track, much better steering feedback, PDK instead of the tepid ZF8 (what I would do for a MT in both, but even in that hypothetical case you'd be putting Porsche's overtly precise and mechanical boxes against BMW's perpetually rubbery throws and vague clutch uptake; same outcome), and mechanical instrumentation (augmented with a digital in-dash display that offers exactly what you actually need and nothing else); it's just more focused, driver-centric, and visceral in the ways that I think matter. Both could use more charismatic engines, but as-is it's a wash.

While I wish the Macan was a sedan--or that Porsche made a sedan in that size--I wouldn't even say the higher CoG is necessarily a negative for the sort of spirited driving that most people actually do. You'll feel more of the forces that the car is generating when you're flinging it around a bit (I actually preferred the M5C over the M8C on track for exactly that reason; the seating position is higher and farther forward which makes a significant difference in otherwise isolated/numb vehicles like those).
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      12-03-2020, 05:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
That really depends on how you define "better," which is ultimately only something only you can decide for yourself.

But to my tastes--which seem to align somewhat with yours, based on what you've said--yes. The Macan has a shorter wheelbase, a wider track, much better steering feedback, PDK instead of the tepid ZF8 (what I would do for a MT in both, but even in that hypothetical case you'd be putting Porsche's overtly precise and mechanical boxes against BMW's perpetually rubbery throws and vague clutch uptake; same outcome), and mechanical instrumentation (augmented with a digital in-dash display that offers exactly what you actually need and nothing else); it's just more focused, driver-centric, and visceral in the ways that I think matter. Both could use more charismatic engines, but as-is it's a wash.

While I wish the Macan was a sedan--or that Porsche made a sedan in that size--I wouldn't even say the higher CoG is necessarily a negative for the sort of spirited driving that most people actually do. You'll feel more of the forces that the car is generating when you're flinging it around a bit (I actually preferred the M5C over the M8C on track for exactly that reason; the seating position is higher and farther forward which makes a significant difference in otherwise isolated/numb vehicles like those).
I have said this recently too. I wish Porsche made a real M3 sized sedan.
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      12-03-2020, 07:31 PM   #26
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I have said this recently too. I wish Porsche made a real M3 sized sedan.
I’ve said this since, well forever
When it finally happened it’s an electric
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      12-04-2020, 12:24 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
A last gen Macan drives better than an M340i. Its not faster its just a better feeling car IMO.

I have not driven the refreshed Macan.
Porsche does this better than anyone. The precision and tuning of everything to make the car feel right. Even our Cayenne has this in spades, it's a car you just want to drive and drive, it gives you that "driver's high" whether you zip around town or go on a 12h road trip. It's like Porsche tune these meticulously with pleasure sensors connected to the test drivers to make sure they register at the top of the scale all the time...

Obviously in case of the Cayenne that cohesive, responsive, athletic feel start falling apart when you start asking it to do things it's not meant to. The tranny gets to slow, the weight and high center of gravity get felt etc, etc but within it's range it's more often than not more satisfying to drive than the F80. The F80 on the other hand shines more the harder you push it.

A 992 is the best of both worlds based on my limited test drive experience. It's a pain as a family car though...
I'm surprised that the Macan would compare to a true sports sedan. I might need to drive it. Although the redesigned version is coming out soon. I did test drive a 911. And yeah. It's fantastic even in the base model that I drove. I wasn't so excited about the price.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I want an M3. Or an M2.
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      12-06-2020, 09:09 AM   #28
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If you start checking out Macan, be prepared for slow. A Macan Turbo is about the same pace as M340i, for like 50% more cost.
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      12-06-2020, 04:47 PM   #29
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agree... in my process i cross shopped with a Macan GTS, which while 10k cheaper in MSRP for well equipped specs, the lease payment works out to about same level as a G8X would in Canada due to bad residuals on the Macan

While a relative bargain looking at Porsches in a vaccum (assuming you can tune the 2.9TT engine to RS5 level and beyond easily), it's essentially a X3 M40i competitor that costs X3MC money, really hard pill to swallow ...

and no way would a rational cross shopper pick one vs a G8X unless they want the Porsche badge and the (limited) extra practicality ..
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      12-06-2020, 10:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecemberStorm View Post
agree... in my process i cross shopped with a Macan GTS, which while 10k cheaper in MSRP for well equipped specs, the lease payment works out to about same level as a G8X would in Canada due to bad residuals on the Macan

While a relative bargain looking at Porsches in a vaccum (assuming you can tune the 2.9TT engine to RS5 level and beyond easily), it's essentially a X3 M40i competitor that costs X3MC money, really hard pill to swallow ...

and no way would a rational cross shopper pick one vs a G8X unless they want the Porsche badge and the (limited) extra practicality ..
Yeah, it's surprising that people think the Macan is a better sports/drivers car than the M340i. I would be shocked if a CUV, even a Porsche CUV, could be better than an M2/M3/M4.
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      12-07-2020, 11:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I have both an M340i and X3M comp so that's as close as you can get to comparing M3 to M340i right now. They are significantly different in how they drive but both incredibly capable on the street. The G20 is softer but still handles remarkably well. The S58 is clearly more powerful than B58 but that extra power lives in the 5-7k rpm range. From 1500-4000 the B58 is very strong.

There are a lot of factors to consider but I think the main one is do you care about paying the M premium and would you use the higher performance of the M? You have to be willing to hit triple digit speeds on the street to really take advantage of the S motor imo.
I test drove the X3M back-to-back with the M340i since that is the closest comparison I can make at this time. I don't generally like driving SUVs/CUVs. But I have to say, I liked the X3M better. Not just the power, but everything about how it drove. The M340i felt soft by comparison. Still very good, but soft. As a daily, the M340i is probably the more sensible choice. I found the X3M to also be very noisy. Maybe it's me, but there was a buffeting sort of sound. Not sure where that was coming from. I would still take the X3M over the M340i. Very surprising. So I guess I can expect the G80 to be even better.
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      12-07-2020, 11:56 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
I test drove the X3M back-to-back with the M340i since that is the closest comparison I can make at this time. I don't generally like driving SUVs/CUVs. But I have to say, I liked the X3M better. Not just the power, but everything about how it drove. The M340i felt soft by comparison. Still very good, but soft. As a daily, the M340i is probably the more sensible choice. I found the X3M to also be very noisy. Maybe it's me, but there was a buffeting sort of sound. Not sure where that was coming from. I would still take the X3M over the M340i. Very surprising. So I guess I can expect the G80 to be even better.
Yes, significantly better. The lower weight, lower COG, lower Cw, RWD or M-Xdrive all play in favor of the G80 being a sharper drive. The lateral support and feedback from the bucket seats should enhance the experience further when pushing it hard.

The G80 will eat the X3M and the M340i in every way.
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      12-08-2020, 12:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
I test drove the X3M back-to-back with the M340i since that is the closest comparison I can make at this time. I don't generally like driving SUVs/CUVs. But I have to say, I liked the X3M better. Not just the power, but everything about how it drove. The M340i felt soft by comparison. Still very good, but soft. As a daily, the M340i is probably the more sensible choice. I found the X3M to also be very noisy. Maybe it's me, but there was a buffeting sort of sound. Not sure where that was coming from. I would still take the X3M over the M340i. Very surprising. So I guess I can expect the G80 to be even better.
If you preferred the X3M over M340i (as I do) then definitely go for G80 and skip G20 if you don't mind the looks. I would also wait for xDrive but that's my preference.
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      01-03-2021, 08:45 PM   #34
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I find that the steering feel and handling is much better in an M car than an M Performance car. I definitely prefer an M for daily driving. My M still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
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      01-04-2021, 10:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Yes, significantly better. The lower weight, lower COG, lower Cw, RWD or M-Xdrive all play in favor of the G80 being a sharper drive. The lateral support and feedback from the bucket seats should enhance the experience further when pushing it hard.

The G80 will eat the X3M and the M340i in every way.
It'll probably snort it not eat it.
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      01-05-2021, 07:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
I'm trying to decide if the G80 is worth the extra $20K or so, especially given the discounts I can get on the M340i. I might track/autocross, but it will be very little, if at all. So the car will be my daily. I don't care so much about raw power or 0-60 times. I just want a car that handles well and feels connected. I would get an M2 or a base Cayman if I didn't need the practicality. Obviously nobody has driven the G80 yet. But based on previous M3 vs. 340i/335i comparisons, does it make sense to pay a bunch more money for the real M? Is it actually better/more fun as a daily driver?
M3 will be worth the theatrics if you're looking for an all-round experience. It's more than a little this or a little that ... it's a lot of pieces that make the car more exciting from a driving and esthetics standpoint.

If it's a bit of a money stretch to get there, you may not see the value in it because the personal cost is so high.... but if you don't need to budget your life around the car, then you'll definitely appreciate what the M3 has to offer.
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      01-17-2021, 04:02 AM   #37
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I've driven the M340i and it was quick but it honestly didn't give me enough comfort or features to make it more enjoyable as a DD over even my old F80. I can imagine the G80 will be an even more uneven comparison. The M340i doesn't have that edge that an M car has. It's just not as exciting.
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      01-17-2021, 08:52 PM   #38
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Thanks for the replies. At this point I am on the list for an M2C allocation. I'm definitely sold on a real M car. I think I can sacrifice the practicality and tech of the G80 to get the M2C driving experience.
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      01-31-2021, 09:21 PM   #39
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Well I canceled my order for the M3 and got the 2021 M340Xi which was my original order back on October. The 2021 M340xi is a fantastic car it feels like a sport car and the steering is so precise, no play at all and I can feel the tires turning better than my old 2010 E60 which had a hydraulic system. I know I'm no expert on sport cars but for me is hard to believe that the M3 can be that much better than this M340, maybe in 3 years or so with dealer discount and incentives I might consider one, but for now I have a big smile in my face when I drive this amazing car.
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      02-06-2021, 03:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josehb View Post
Well I canceled my order for the M3 and got the 2021 M340Xi which was my original order back on October. The 2021 M340xi is a fantastic car it feels like a sport car and the steering is so precise, no play at all and I can feel the tires turning better than my old 2010 E60 which had a hydraulic system. I know I'm no expert on sport cars but for me is hard to believe that the M3 can be that much better than this M340, maybe in 3 years or so with dealer discount and incentives I might consider one, but for now I have a big smile in my face when I drive this amazing car.
I'm damn sure it gives you a big smile.
Imo and likely everyone else the M340i is quiet the best car you can get in the segment it is in.
Of course the M3 will be better in every aspect, but it will cost more.

But if you want a quick DD with comfort you never do anything wrong with the M340i.
To be honest i was considering also to buy one...but as soon as they announced the M3 with MT my decision was the M3. The M2CS was also a consideration but yeah, I want a 4 Door Sedan.
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      02-07-2021, 01:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I have both an M340i and X3M comp so that's as close as you can get to comparing M3 to M340i right now. They are significantly different in how they drive but both incredibly capable on the street. The G20 is softer but still handles remarkably well. The S58 is clearly more powerful than B58 but that extra power lives in the 5-7k rpm range. From 1500-4000 the B58 is very strong.

There are a lot of factors to consider but I think the main one is do you care about paying the M premium and would you use the higher performance of the M? You have to be willing to hit triple digit speeds on the street to really take advantage of the S motor imo.
I test drove the X3M back-to-back with the M340i since that is the closest comparison I can make at this time. I don't generally like driving SUVs/CUVs. But I have to say, I liked the X3M better. Not just the power, but everything about how it drove. The M340i felt soft by comparison. Still very good, but soft. As a daily, the M340i is probably the more sensible choice. I found the X3M to also be very noisy. Maybe it's me, but there was a buffeting sort of sound. Not sure where that was coming from. I would still take the X3M over the M340i. Very surprising. So I guess I can expect the G80 to be even better.
I also drove them both. Ordered an M340 xDrive. Loved it for a capable DD.

However, I also have an X3 and an E92 M3 ZCP 6MT in the stable, so my decision was different than maybe it would be for someone else.
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      02-07-2021, 10:11 PM   #42
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You buy an M car not just because its performance envelope is higher. The improved looks alone is a big factor. An M340 is nice but it does not have the presence of an M car and really just camouflages in. The exhaust sound, stiffer ride, etc are all part or they experience. If you don't find those things important then there is no reason to shop an M car. The M340 is a great daily driver that will just eat up miles quietly.
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      02-08-2021, 04:08 AM   #43
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I've been trying to sell my M2C 6MT while I am waiting for the G80 M3 6MT. In the meantime I am driving a M340i xDrive.

The M2C has everything I want in a sports car. It is the perfect size.

The M340i is the a perfectly capable car, but it's so boring to drive. The 8ZF is smooth, the powerband is linear; but I'm bored of it. The iDrive 7 is smart, having the HUD is nice, and having the dual zone climate control with the SYNC button is so much better than not having one on the M2C; but the non-M sport seat isn't supportive enough for me. The stock wheels/tires seem a bit too small/not wide enough for this car of this power (225/255). Overall, this car is capable and adequete, but it just does not bring the same happiness & excitement when I start the M2C and drive it. I drive the M2C every 10 days or so now, and I just get his big grin. It's this reason that I love M cars.
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      02-09-2021, 08:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ashtaron14 View Post
I've been trying to sell my M2C 6MT while I am waiting for the G80 M3 6MT. In the meantime I am driving a M340i xDrive.

The M2C has everything I want in a sports car. It is the perfect size.

The M340i is the a perfectly capable car, but it's so boring to drive. The 8ZF is smooth, the powerband is linear; but I'm bored of it. The iDrive 7 is smart, having the HUD is nice, and having the dual zone climate control with the SYNC button is so much better than not having one on the M2C; but the non-M sport seat isn't supportive enough for me. The stock wheels/tires seem a bit too small/not wide enough for this car of this power (225/255). Overall, this car is capable and adequete, but it just does not bring the same happiness & excitement when I start the M2C and drive it. I drive the M2C every 10 days or so now, and I just get his big grin. It's this reason that I love M cars.
Out of curiosity, why are you giving up your M2C for the G80?
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