[BEAR-AvHistory]

Agree on the buttons. Would like the wide screen but not at the expense of loosing the buttons.

That said like your car good color choices.

[strada]

Originally Posted by MiladsFrozenM5

I just recently leased my new BMW M3 from Irvine BMW in California.
Here are my Terms.
BMW BASE M3
MSRP: $94,100
Term: 36 Months
Down: $0
Payment: $1,587.61
Miles:10K
Buyout option: $59,154
Diamond Ceramic Coating: $750 (Warranty on exterior and interior for 7 years)

I couldn't Finance, the money factor was way better than the APR. Let's have a discussion here, did i get slammed or what lol.

I'm assuming because you asked, you have some inkling that this isn't a great deal. You are paying 57k to rent a car for 3 years...19k per year. That's 60% of the cost of the vehicle. Of which they want to they ask for 62% of the cost to buyout. That's not smart money. Anyone that tells you that's a decent deal is not thinking about long term net worth or has only a marginally crappier deal they made to rent their car. But like most people will say, that's the way of the world now. Leverage everything.

I'm not sure what APR you were looking at but I could make a ~$1500 payment with that MSRP, 15k down, and 5yrs at 6% give or take. If you need 83-120mo to pay off a car, you can't actually afford it IMO.

Originally Posted by Mike02z

I’m happy there are people who can pay cash for their car. Most of us are not in that position.

You can pay cash for any car, IF you live within your means. Most people aren't willing to do that and would rather make some arbitrary $/mo fit their goals to flex while ultimately renting cars indefinitely. I never understood it, but again I find I'm in the minority.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think 48 is the new norm.

Mean loan term for a new car loan in 2023 is 69 months (nice). Mode (most common) term is 72 months, with 84 close behind. 73% of new car loans are more than 60 months. Shockingly, 80% of used car loans are greater than 60.

Sadly, it seems the norm is to buy way more car than one can afford.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by geko29

Mean loan term for a new car loan in 2023 is 69 months (nice). Mode (most common) term is 72 months, with 84 close behind. 73% of new car loans are more than 60 months. Shockingly, 80% of used car loans are greater than 60.

Sadly, it seems the norm is to buy way more car than one can afford.

More like higher prices and inflation have made this the norm. Doesn't really help that prices have skyrocketed and that it's quite difficult to find anything of decent quality used for under $20k now.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/05...nd-says-study/

[vbb]

It's a very nice spec on a great car... but you also could have gotten it for less money if you chose different financing options, which has been discussed. So for that reason it wasn't the best deal. The real question is whether it matters (to you), and we can't answer that.

These threads always devolve in to lectures over what other people can afford. I would argue that if someone makes all the finance payments and doesn't get their car repossessed, then technically they've shown they can afford the car. But if one person pays $90k for a car after it is all said and done, they've certainly made a much better deal compared to someone that has paid $120k for the same car. You absolutely have to factor in the interest you pay when determining how much you actually paid for a thing. If someone wants to commit to a finance period of 84, 96, or 120(!) months, and never misses a payment, then they have afforded the car, but boy have they overpaid.

I am not opposed to leasing as an option, but personally I would not want to have monthly payments that massive on a vehicle with that MSRP and with a buyout/residual that high after the term is up. I'd have to sell the car for at least $10k more than the residual at the end of the term to feel good about this particular deal, and I am not confident you'll be able to do that.

But, I do really like your spec.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

More like higher prices and inflation have made this the norm. Doesn't really help that prices have skyrocketed and that it's quite difficult to find anything of decent quality used for under $20k now.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/05...nd-says-study/

This has been a trend for a LOT longer than the recent significant increase in prices. 72 has been the most common term for over a decade if memory serves, and in 2018 the average term was 68 months vs. 68.6 today.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by FiftyFiv3

Well you're effectively paying 116k for a 94k car soooo...

Do you understand what interest is ? Financing it wouldn’t be much better. Unless you pay in cash, you are going to pay more over the life of the loan than the msrp.

[FiftyFiv3]

Originally Posted by Panscan340

Do you understand what interest is ? Financing it wouldn’t be much better. Unless you pay in cash, you are going to pay more over the life of the loan than the msrp.

Interest? Never heard of it, please explain.

You really think a residual of 60k is realistic?

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by FiftyFiv3

Interest? Never heard of it, please explain.

You really think a residual of 60k is realistic?

It has a high sticker. Math is math.

Under your math where you are adding the payments to the residual to get a total cost of the purchase, the actual residual itself doesn’t matter much since a low residual makes the payments higher and vice versa. Obviously if you plan to turn the car in after 3 years you’d want as high of a residual as possible.

Rates are high and that makes any sort of financing a 94k car expensive. Obviously also taxes. Is someone dumb for paying 100k cash for a 94k msrp car ? In many states that would be what would be required about tax. It costs money to borrow money, who knew.

[FiftyFiv3]

Originally Posted by Panscan340

It has a high sticker. Math is math.

Under your math where you are adding the payments to the residual to get a total cost of the purchase, the actual residual itself doesn’t matter much since a low residual makes the payments higher and vice versa. Obviously if you plan to turn the car in after 3 years you’d want as high of a residual as possible.

Rates are high and that makes any sort of financing a 94k car expensive. Obviously also taxes. Is someone dumb for paying 100k cash for a 94k msrp car ? In many states that would be what would be required about tax. It costs money to borrow money, who knew.

Guy is asking if he got fleeced, I think he did, in his situation it makes sense to pay cash. If you can't pay cash and need to finance then do so and be at the whims of the lender. Cash is better then financing at high rates, who knew.

[skyline408]

The only problem I see is the OP picked up a very high MSRP base car which will not hold up in value should he try and sell the car at the end of the lease. This seems like the kind of car you want to keep long term, but since the OP leased it, it doesn't seem like that will be the case.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by FiftyFiv3

Guy is asking if he got fleeced, I think he did, in his situation it makes sense to pay cash. If you can't pay cash and need to finance then do so and be at the whims of the lender. Cash is better then financing at high rates, who knew.

So literally all people not paying cash for cars right now are getting fleeced, prob 99% of people. Okie doke thank you for that very insightful comment.

[vbb]

The reality is the vast majority of buyers can't afford or don't want to let go of $100k in cash for a car, so yes, virtually everyone finances. When we accept that means almost everyone pays more than the MSRP + tax, the question becomes what is the best deal that can be reached? Obviously the lowest interest rate one can get and the quickest repayment schedule one can afford is best. And because those factors vary widely from buyer to buyer, comparing deals is hard to do.

When someone asks "was this a good deal" and they're talking about their payments and interest rates and not how much they're actually spending on the purchase, none of us can really assess. So what they're really asking is "would YOU make this deal?" and again, that's virtually a useless discussion to have.

No, I wouldn't have made OP's deal.

[FiftyFiv3]

Originally Posted by Panscan340

So literally all people not paying cash for cars right now are getting fleeced, prob 99% of people. Okie doke thank you for that very insightful comment.

Holy shit your a nut job, I don't have time to waste on you.

['Cane]

Originally Posted by skyline408

The only problem I see is the OP picked up a very high MSRP base car which will not hold up in value should he try and sell the car at the end of the lease.This seems like the kind of car you want to keep long term, but since the OP leased it, it doesn't seem like that will be the case.

Buying/selling at the end of a lease is not the norm, nor the intent. It’s to turn in and walk away from so you can move on the the next.

[MiladsFrozenM5]

Guys, let’s not get to personal with this thread lol. What I meant by getting “slammed”, wanted to compare lease agreements with people in the area. For me, owning my own business, having my money tied up in a flip, just made the most sense to leade financially. I mean, if people have the cash or finance, that’s not always the best option for the owner. I drove off the lot with $0 down and a lower payment. I obviously compared the 72 months finance option with the my 36 month lease and I’m paying less with the lease option plus buyout.

[Mike02z]

Originally Posted by MiladsFrozenM5

Guys, let’s not get to personal with this thread lol. What I meant by getting “slammed”, wanted to compare lease agreements with people in the area. For me, owning my own business, having my money tied up in a flip, just made the most sense to leade financially. I mean, if people have the cash or finance, that’s not always the best option for the owner. I drove off the lot with $0 down and a lower payment. I obviously compared the 72 months finance option with the my 36 month lease and I’m paying less with the lease option plus buyout.

Do you like the car? Do you think your deal was fair? Are you happy that you did this? Then screw anyone else. That’s the bottom line.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by geko29

This has been a trend for a LOT longer than the recent significant increase in prices. 72 has been the most common term for over a decade if memory serves, and in 2018 the average term was 68 months vs. 68.6 today.

I'd be very curious to know what the actual number is. I don't remember even seeing 72 nearly anywhere when buying my car in 2018, let alone before that. 60 was basically it otherwise it was "you can't afford it" the rise of 72 and 84 month terms was pretty sudden from what I can remember.

[Mike02z]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

I'd be very curious to know what the actual number is. I don't remember even seeing 72 nearly anywhere when buying my car in 2018, let alone before that. 60 was basically it otherwise it was "you can't afford it" the rise of 72 and 84 month terms was pretty sudden from what I can remember.

84 has been an option for a while. BMW won’t do 84 but they will do 83.

I purchased a new 2008 Corvette and the dealership offered 84 months @3.9%. At that time it was the only way I could afford it. 2 years later I refinanced for 36 months.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by vbb

When someone asks "was this a good deal" and they're talking about their payments and interest rates and not how much they're actually spending on the purchase, none of us can really assess. So what they're really asking is "would YOU make this deal?" and again, that's virtually a useless discussion to have.

This is the best thing in this thread. Very sage words.

[MiladsFrozenM5]

Originally Posted by Greer

This is the best thing in this thread. Very sage words.

It’s forum, if not here, then where? I just wanted to see lease rates others received in the near area on the 24’s. I think I got a good deal.

[skyline408]

Originally Posted by 'Cane

Buying/selling at the end of a lease is not the norm, nor the intent. It’s to turn in and walk away from so you can move on the the next.

Not the norm, but done all the time. I mentioned it, because it looked like the OP was planning on keeping the car for the long haul and at 3 years the car may be worth more than the residual at the end of the lease term.

I've personally bought out leased cars at the end of the term simply because I changed my mind and rather keep the car. Did it cost more? of course it did, but i like the flexibility of either returning the car at the end of the lease or keeping it should I want it.