BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics G80 M3 /G82 M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-17-2021, 06:47 AM   #23
BGM-M3COMP
The Ben Shapiro of this place. I never lose! LOL
BGM-M3COMP's Avatar
2327
Rep
3,021
Posts

Drives: 12 plaids on order
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Tesla Land

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
He had issues with a c7Z when it was hot outside? Up in Canada? Or he had issues with it when he tracked it? The car is known to have cooling issues (Auto) when tracked, but regular driving? I hardly believe that.

I had a c7Z in south florida, raced it monthly, that car never had one issue, and it was 8 speed.
This.

I have a C7Z and the car has NEVER gave me a single hiccup in almost 30k miles. Always started right up, never had a CEL, never hesitated. And i beat on the car every weekend. In summer and if i feel brave, in colder months too.

The car is bulletproof. People are so misinformed about the overheating thing when there's nothing wrong with the powertrain, it was GM's lack of cooling efficiency, which was cured by the ZR1 with a bigger radiator and more cooling.

If my M3 takes too long, i think i'm going for the CT5V blackwing, because it has that glorious LT4.
Appreciate 3
par__m3451.00
MCM41109.00
jkap27467.50
      10-18-2021, 08:27 AM   #24
TrevorM3
Banned
3318
Rep
8,083
Posts

Drives: 6.3 AMG
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
This.

I have a C7Z and the car has NEVER gave me a single hiccup in almost 30k miles. Always started right up, never had a CEL, never hesitated. And i beat on the car every weekend. In summer and if i feel brave, in colder months too.

The car is bulletproof. People are so misinformed about the overheating thing when there's nothing wrong with the powertrain, it was GM's lack of cooling efficiency, which was cured by the ZR1 with a bigger radiator and more cooling.

If my M3 takes too long, i think i'm going for the CT5V blackwing, because it has that glorious LT4.



Not even mad. The LT4 is special. Power is EVERYWHERE.

The only time i threw a CEL was chasing down a DME tuned X5M at 160 when i hit the rev limiter, lmao. But, in true chevy fashion, i pulled over, did start/stop 5x, and CEL was gone. Then proceeded to do 1/4 racing w/o an issue.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2022, 10:44 PM   #25
shapiros
Private
shapiros's Avatar
16
Rep
67
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Thought about it, and the CT5V as well. CT4V seemed to be too small on the interior and watching Savagegeese's review that the CT5V gets 7 MPG sealed it for me.
__________________
2018 F80 M3 ZCP 6MT
2014 E63 S AMG Wagon
2013 E92 M3 ZCP 6MT (gone but not forgotten)
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2022, 09:49 AM   #26
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17864
Rep
5,462
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by shapiros View Post
Thought about it, and the CT5V as well. CT4V seemed to be too small on the interior and watching Savagegeese's review that the CT5V gets 7 MPG sealed it for me.
Wow I must have missed the part about the gas mileage. My biggest issue is that i psychologically have a hard time dropping $90k+ on a Cadillac especially if the interior is a notch below the g80. I think the CT4V matches up better with the g80 6mt anyway doesn't it?
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2022, 07:10 PM   #27
Transon33
Registered
Transon33's Avatar
0
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: 2021 m4
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: San Jose, Ca

iTrader: (0)

Car and Driver tested both cars with manual transmissions (in different articles).

The M was 1.1s faster to 100 mph and had a trap speed 5 mph higher.

That’s an important selling point…..

https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/m4-2021
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2022, 08:51 AM   #28
LimeRock
Lieutenant
LimeRock's Avatar
672
Rep
405
Posts

Drives: BMW & Porsche
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Windy City

iTrader: (0)

The blackwing is an impressive car, but I just can't get past the way those vehicles age.

A quick look back through the M3 generations, and you'll find one unique car after an other. All future collectibles in their own right. American sports cars (except those like a Ford GT or super limited vettes / vipers etc.) will just look dated in a few years. The GT500 is a great example — fantastic car by today's standards, but go ahead and look at the same vehicle 10 years ago and it's just clunky.

Beyond spec comparisons, the argument becomes more compelling. The M3 is more customizable, with bmw individual and a variety of interior choices. We get true carbon buckets, second only to Porsche buckets. We get the ability to spec ceramics. Full (merino) leather on the dash and doors if we choose. A truly bespoke engine that is shaping up to be an incredibly capable engineering marvel at any price point. It's these details that make an M3, an M3.

Totally commend Cadillac for what they have created, and I'm taking nothing away from that vehicle. But it's just not an icon with the history and pedigree of our vehicles. Never will be.
__________________
Current: G87 M2 on deposit, 992 Carrera T incoming
Past: 997.2 911 Carrera S, Macan Turbo, G80 M3 Competition, X3M Competition, OG M2, MK6 GTI

Appreciate 0
      01-08-2022, 09:49 AM   #29
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5748
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Oh, I don't know if the vehicle aging with the Cadillacs is that bad (on the outside, at least). There are a couple of older CTS-V's around my area and the new ones do look like an evolution of the older ones. The E90/92, as well loved as they are around here, actually look older to me than the one CTS-V of the pair that I know is a 2012 or 13...so the same age as a late E90 M3. Granted, I never had the same fondness for the E9x chassis as most folk on this board do, but I really don't think they've aged better than the contemporary CTS.

However, I have thought for a while that one of Cadillac's big issues is the constant name changes. Counting mostly enthusiasts, folk KNOW what an M3 is, and they know what an M5 is. M4 or M2 don't carry the same name weight but it's still close. ATS, CT4, CTS, etc... don't have history and with the switch from ATS/CTS to CT4/CT5, Cadillac isn't retaining what they built with the CTS over the space of 15+ years. And despite years of effort, it's still hard for many of us to consider Cadillac against it's long, long history of building cars that ran from uninspiring to downright awful.

Maybe it's different for folk who are younger than I am. If you never looked at Cadillac until after 2010, you might have a different perspective as you weren't paying attention during the 80's through the 2000's or something. I don't know. But even many casual enthusiasts had gotten to the point where they knew what a CTS-V was...changing the name just seems like a bad idea. Branding really is a thing.
Appreciate 1
wtwo317864.00
      01-12-2022, 12:02 PM   #30
DAlby18
Private First Class
DAlby18's Avatar
Canada
53
Rep
109
Posts

Drives: Toronto Red M3 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: GTA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAlby18 View Post
Me personally I would never touch GM with a 10 ft pole. My brother-in-law only use to buy GM products (8 in total) ranging from pickups to Escalades to Corvettes and each one came with their own bucket of problems. The last gen Escalade had an interior sprinkler system every time it rained that would wet him every time he accelerated. His C7 Z06 had the lovely limp mode every time it was hot outside and he kept bringing it in but they would never resolve the issue. 5 years later they finally have a recall for the issue but when he brought it in they said that he needed to produce the issue on video before fixing it and that his last 10 work orders weren't enough proof of the issue. He got so fed up and sold all his vehicles.

Between my father, brother and myself we have owned 11 BMW's all together and currently have a G80 on order. All I can say is BMW is not perfect but when there is an issue they are on it like a fat kid on a smartie. I bought one Mercedes (GLE 43). I loved the vehicle but hated Mercedes sales/service. Just wanted to try something else but I keep finding my way back to BMW.


He had issues with a c7Z when it was hot outside? Up in Canada? Or he had issues with it when he tracked it? The car is known to have cooling issues (Auto) when tracked, but regular driving? I hardly believe that.

I had a c7Z in south florida, raced it monthly, that car never had one issue, and it was 8 speed.
Yes I'm Canada during the summer months. The first two production years had over heating issues. It took GM 5 years to admit there was a problem. He ended up selling it before he was notified about the recall.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2022, 06:01 PM   #31
austrum
Private
43
Rep
80
Posts

Drives: G80 RWD Comp
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: DFW, TX

iTrader: (0)

Motortrend is out with a comparison of these two, but with the M3 Comp in X-Drive this time!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...n-test-review/
Appreciate 2
LimeRock672.00
mirob2944.50
      01-13-2022, 07:32 AM   #32
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
3684
Rep
2,955
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Too close to Santa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by austrum View Post
Motortrend is out with a comparison of these two, but with the M3 Comp in X-Drive this time!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...n-test-review/
Look at the acceleration numbers. Clearly AWD helps on the launch but look at the trap speeds and time to 100 mph. These cars aren't really in the same performance class.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2022, 02:13 PM   #33
LuvMyE92
Occasionally frequent poster
LuvMyE92's Avatar
2994
Rep
2,742
Posts

Drives: CT5V-Blackwing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: RTP NC, USA

iTrader: (0)

A buddy of mine asked me why I wasn't getting a CT5-V-BW. I said, among other things, that you can't get one. AFAIK, the waiting lists are long, the ADM are high, and although I told Cadillac I was interested, they never bothered to follow-up.

The real reason is that I had a Chevy SS. That's the Australian Holden sedan with the LS6 Corvette engine that (according to the magazines) rivals the wonderful E39 M5. I've owned three of those cars. The SS is no E39 M5.

Actually, in some regards it was better - more reliable, better ride (magnaride suspension) quieter and got better gas mileage. It fell short, like most cars compared to a BMW, in character. It was just... fine. There was no character, no excitement, no novelty to it.

I suspect the same with these Caddys.
__________________
Current inventory:
F22 & G05
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing w/3 pedals
Past: E24,E28(3),E34,E36,E37,E38(2),E39(4),E46,E89,E92 (obviously),F01,F06,F10,F30,F87,G12,G30(2),G82(2)
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2022, 10:45 AM   #34
MCM4
Lieutenant
MCM4's Avatar
1109
Rep
570
Posts

Drives: 2020 GMC AT4
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

First post here guys. Trying to ramp up my BMW knowledge.

I ordered a CT5-V Blackwing in September at a local dealer. $1000 refundable deposit, price is MSRP. The order has still not been accepted by GM (the infamous 1100 designation). I ordered a 2nd in December from an out of state dealer that seems to have the highest allocations in the US. Price is also MSRP. GM seems to be struggling the most with getting their parts. Blackwings are now shipping without parking sensors and you get a $50 credit (yes, I'm serious). Builds that have carbon fiber are completely stalled as GM has none, so dealers are asking allocated customers if they want to remove those parts to get the car built faster. In my case, I do want the exterior CF1 package, which includes a great front end splitter and rear spoiler.

This week, I walked into a local BMW dealer after connecting with a salesperson over the phone. I was able to sit inside a G83. I have never owned a BMW, but have been very attracted to the front end of the current generation. I asked if a deposit is refundable if I order and it is. So I gave them $1000 and ordered a new M4 Comp X in Skyscraper. The next day, I had an allocation and a production #. Apparently, I am set for Week 11.

I love the look of the BMW, and obviously it is a coupe versus a 4 door sedan (which I also prefer). My Blackwing is ordered as a 6 speed, the M4 of course auto. Every review you see on the 6MT CT5-V BW, the person driving the car cannot contain their excitement. It is so clear how enjoyable the Cadillac is to drive.

And that is my only hesitation on the M4 - is it not engaging enough? I am hoping not. No doubt the BMW interior is very appealing. The G83 seat fit me like a glove, much better than the Caddy (GM seats are oversized IMO). I give Cadillac a massive advantage on the primary driving gauges and ease at moving through driving settings. The way you can configure the driver display is awesome in the Blackwing. The M4 readout is unexciting by comparison.

Still, I love the M4 exterior, it is a coupe, and even though I did not get a manual, the AWD will make it much more of a 4 season car in Colorado with a second set of tires. That's a huge plus for me. I think I will really love it, especially if I never pilot a Blackwing.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2022, 09:08 AM   #35
kassad
New Member
21
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

Just saw that a CT4 V BW with a tune put down a 11.2 quarter at 124 mph at Cadillac Attack in Florida this past weekend. Stock inlet and exhaust. Dont know if they cracked the ECU or are using a piggyback, but the car is going to be a monster with a few tweaks. The blackwing runs 14psi of boost stock, and the tune took it up to 18 or 19psi.
Appreciate 1
cobra2814112.00
      02-02-2022, 11:56 AM   #36
Bumpinjeep
Colonel
Bumpinjeep's Avatar
United_States
5362
Rep
2,238
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Redmond, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 M2  [8.00]
The 4 & 5 were on Car and Driver's 10 Best list
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...4/10best-2022/
The M3C and M4 were part of the contenders list at the bottom.
In the physical magazine, there's a blurb about why they chose the CT4 over the M3; "Perhaps you've noticed that the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing made the list and the BMW M3 didn't." "Well, that's because the Cadillac is more fun, handles better, and is the superior sports sedan."
IF you can get one, I would def take a look prior to the BMW. Especially since it costs less.
__________________
Present: 2023 M2 BSM W/Carbon everything, 6 Speed
Past:2020 M2C HS Executive, 6 Speed
Appreciate 1
KevinGS3275.00
      02-07-2022, 12:17 PM   #37
heavyD^2
Colonel
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
3684
Rep
2,955
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Too close to Santa

iTrader: (0)

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2022/

Quote:
Sharper on turn-in than the Caddy, the BMW moves with slightly more confidence. The steering only whispers what the front tires are up to, while the Cadillac's steering never stops crying "Hear ye, hear ye!" Call it a wash on braking feel and strength, and we're back to power. BMW's six delivers near supercar numbers, while the Cadillac musters sports-car speeds. Judged solely on times, the BMW is the winner.
Interesting that the CT4-V is the same weight as an xDrive M3. Clearly the M3 xDrive is the better track car. Also interesting is that during their 10 best testing C&D felt the CT4-V handles better but on a track trying to attempt the fastest times, the M3 is the more confident handling car.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2022, 01:53 PM   #38
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
17864
Rep
5,462
Posts

Drives: 23 X7 40i; 23 M3; 24 cooper s
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2022/



Interesting that the CT4-V is the same weight as an xDrive M3. Clearly the M3 xDrive is the better track car. Also interesting is that during their 10 best testing C&D felt the CT4-V handles better but on a track trying to attempt the fastest times, the M3 is the more confident handling car.
One thing to keep in mind with C&D (and I'm sure other publications), they're very inconsistent in their comments. I remember when one reviewer called the m340i's suspension "anemic" and "harsh".... and another reviewer, reviewing the exact same car on a different day, discussed how comfortable and compliant the suspension was.
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xDrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT
2024 Mini Cooper S Convertible

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 1
akkando5860.00
      02-07-2022, 05:07 PM   #39
BA///MA
Private
BA///MA's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
84
Posts

Drives: 2022 M3
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Alabama

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2022 BMW M3  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The 4 & 5 were on Car and Driver's 10 Best list
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...4/10best-2022/
The M3C and M4 were part of the contenders list at the bottom.
In the physical magazine, there's a blurb about why they chose the CT4 over the M3; "Perhaps you've noticed that the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing made the list and the BMW M3 didn't." "Well, that's because the Cadillac is more fun, handles better, and is the superior sports sedan."
IF you can get one, I would def take a look prior to the BMW. Especially since it costs less.
I had a 2016 ATS-V 4 door w/ a 6spd, and I now have a G80 M3 on order. There are a few reasons why I'm not considering the CT4-V BW: Quality, size, and feel.

The interior quality of the Cadillacs is fine at best, but just not nearly as nice as what BMW offers. Had several issues with the infotainment system, had two wear points on the interior that had indentations left where my elbows frequently sat, and it just felt very dark inside. The seats were comfortable enough, but just felt a bit cheaper. My current X5 has been miles better in terms of fit, finish, and quality of components.

As for size, the back seats were more or less unusable. I could squeeze people behind me in a pinch, but anyone of any height couldn't really fit behind me at all, or I'd have to drive with my knees around my ears. My sister has a G20 3 series and there's much, much more seating room in there.

The final issue for me was driving experience. For all the platitudes people give the Alpha chassis, it just never really did it for me. The magnetic ride suspension is nice, but nothing earth shattering. The steering always felt a bit vague or not quite where I was expecting the input to be. I had a 2014 228i and it was miles better in terms of handling, and driving my sisters G20, it feels pretty similar.

So even though the price might be less, living with the car just isn't worth the savings to me. The CT5-V BW makes up for a lot of these ills, but I checked with a few dealerships before placing my order for the G80 and basically got told, "we have no idea if or when we'll be getting any allocations at all, and if we do, we already have a few people in line". So that was a no go.

The last thing I'll add is that while many want to criticize the styling of the M3, I've grown to really love it. The Cadillac just looks a bit boring and dated to me now.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2022, 09:39 PM   #40
MCM4
Lieutenant
MCM4's Avatar
1109
Rep
570
Posts

Drives: 2020 GMC AT4
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BA///MA View Post
The last thing I'll add is that while many want to criticize the styling of the M3, I've grown to really love it. The Cadillac just looks a bit boring and dated to me now.
So I actually love the M3/M4 styling. Large reason why this will be my first BMW. I think the CT4-V Blackwing is a miss compared to the 5, both on the front and on the back. But the 5 has a bit of a sinister front end, and I rather like that. Still, my wife tells me "why do you want to drive an old man's car?" She has no idea what an LT4 6MT is, but the styling is certainly less exciting than what you get from BMW.
Appreciate 0
      02-08-2022, 03:27 PM   #41
kassad
New Member
21
Rep
20
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

The M3 comp certainly smoked the CT4. But for the same price, the CT5 smoked the M3 and the 50k more expensive M5 (while the M5 was wearing track shoes).

But the real story is the Mach one smoking both the CT4 and the M3 comp. Hats off to Ford, that thing goes like crazy and sounds amazing doing it.
Appreciate 1
akkando5860.00
      02-08-2022, 08:30 PM   #42
cobra2814
Private First Class
cobra2814's Avatar
United_States
112
Rep
122
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW M4 Competition
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Oakland, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by austrum View Post
Motortrend is out with a comparison of these two, but with the M3 Comp in X-Drive this time!

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...n-test-review/
Look at the acceleration numbers. Clearly AWD helps on the launch but look at the trap speeds and time to 100 mph. These cars aren't really in the same performance class.
Agreed. A 114 mph trap speed out of the Caddy is E90 territory, a full 2 generations behind the times. That's a shame because it's an otherwise compelling choice.
__________________
Exhaust gases go into the turbocharger, witchcraft happens, and you go faster.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2022, 05:44 PM   #43
jkap27
Lieutenant
468
Rep
425
Posts

Drives: BMW M240I
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

[QUOTE=TrevorM3;28154015]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
This.

I have a C7Z and the car has NEVER gave me a single hiccup in almost 30k miles. Always started right up, never had a CEL, never hesitated. And i beat on the car every weekend. In summer and if i feel brave, in colder months too.

The car is bulletproof. People are so misinformed about the overheating thing when there's nothing wrong with the powertrain, it was GM's lack of cooling efficiency, which was cured by the ZR1 with a bigger radiator and more cooling.

If my M3 takes too long, i think i'm going for the CT5V blackwing, because it has that glorious LT4.



I'm in the same boat as you…I've been looking at ct5v blackwings at dealers while I indefinitely wait for an M3 lol. No idea what I'm gonna do
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2022, 06:12 PM   #44
MCM4
Lieutenant
MCM4's Avatar
1109
Rep
570
Posts

Drives: 2020 GMC AT4
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

M3s have to be easier to get than CT5-V Blackwings. Some BMW dealers have allocations available. Sure, they might charge 5k to get in, but then you have a build immediately. Maybe 300 CT5-V BWs have been delivered since production began.

I have (2) CT5-V Blackwing orders in at MSRP, the first from last September. Neither has been accepted yet by GM. I ordered an M4Comp xDrive 2 weeks ago and had a confirmed build the next day. Car should be done in March. It does not work anything like that with Cadillac.

Also, for all the talk here about port times and delivery... some Blackwing buyers have had their cars finished 2 months ago and they are still awaiting transportation to dealers. These cars are supposedly 100% complete, no stop sales or other purgatory problems!

Stick with your M3s.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 AM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST