[M2 SoCal]

Originally Posted by Nettles

You still sound like you’re trolling. Say you don’t know who Clarkson is next.

What is a “Clarkson”?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I don’t dislike Chris Harris, he’s fine.

Top Gear, however ain’t what it used to be by any measure. It’s so boring, so woke, so awful with those three new hosts. I couldn’t get through 5 minutes of it. Their personalities are as interesting as a side of raw kale.

And that one guy is just too damn tall.

If that’s entertainment, BBC… you can have it.
I’ll take the grand tour anyday and twice on Sunday over that steaming pile of medicocrity.

Some say, I'd rather watch paint dry

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I don’t dislike Chris Harris, he’s fine.

Top Gear, however ain’t what it used to be by any measure. It’s so boring, so woke, so awful with those three new hosts. I couldn’t get through 5 minutes of it. Their personalities are as interesting as a side of raw kale.

And that one guy is just too damn tall.

If that’s entertainment, BBC… you can have it.
I’ll take the grand tour anyday and twice on Sunday over that steaming pile of medicocrity.

I actually can't tell what the personalities are, there's a guy on there who speaks and I can't understand a word he's saying. Supposedly it's English.

[G30M]

CH says predictably brilliant.

He meant - I expected the engine to put out that power, and I expected the car to handle well.

Didn't say it looked pretty, or better than car X on track.

I'd agree. I expect the thing to pull hard and handle well.

End of Insta.

But we have managed a 7 page argument over 2 words!

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by g21

CH says predictably brilliant.

But we have managed a 7 page argument over 2 words!

That's the beauty of showmanship my friend

[Info@mad-us.com]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I don’t dislike Chris Harris, he’s fine.

Top Gear, however ain’t what it used to be by any measure. It’s so boring, so woke, so awful with those three new hosts. I couldn’t get through 5 minutes of it. Their personalities are as interesting as a side of raw kale.

And that one guy is just too damn tall.

If that’s entertainment, BBC… you can have it.
I’ll take the grand tour anyday and twice on Sunday over that steaming pile of medicocrity.

Spot on.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I don’t dislike Chris Harris, he’s fine.

Top Gear, however ain’t what it used to be by any measure. It’s so boring, so woke, so awful with those three new hosts. I couldn’t get through 5 minutes of it. Their personalities are as interesting as a side of raw kale.

And that one guy is just too damn tall.

If that’s entertainment, BBC… you can have it.
I’ll take the grand tour anyday and twice on Sunday over that steaming pile of medicocrity.

I like how Chris Harris drives and he expresses his opinions eloquently. He was one of the few car journalists that liked the F80 when it was widely derided for lack of steering feel and horrible sounding exhaust note. Both criticisms are true, but Harris recognized that the F80 still had many other strengths.

I tried to watch the new Top Gear, and it all feels forced. There is no real chemistry. However, I don't care about anything being "woke" one way or another. I get it, people are sick of being inclusive or sensitive to certain groups they don't identify with, but as a member of an ethnic minority in this part of the world, I've had to listen/watch/read stuff I don't necessarily identify with or like all the time. It's not really that big of a deal. People need to grow a thicker skin, which is ironic since that's also the same argument about being excessively "woke". We are all more alike than we think!

I like Grand Tour, but it's also not as good as Top Gear in its prime, but I think that has more to do with the way the media consumption landscape has changed. Top Gear is no longer the first time I hear about a car, it's already old news by the time it's shot, edited, and aired. Youtube has made even the most exclusive and exotic cars accessible with varying degrees of quality. There will never be another Top Gear because it's obsolete.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by jmg

I like how Chris Harris drives and he expresses his opinions eloquently. He was one of the few car journalists that liked the F80 when it was widely derided for lack of steering feel and horrible sounding exhaust note. Both criticisms are true, but Harris recognized that the F80 still had many other strengths.

I tried to watch the new Top Gear, and it all feels forced. There is no real chemistry. However, I don't care about anything being "woke" one way or another. I get it, people are sick of being inclusive or sensitive to certain groups they don't identify with, but as a member of an ethnic minority in this part of the world, I've had to listen/watch/read stuff I don't necessarily identify with or like all the time. It's not really that big of a deal. People need to grow a thicker skin, which is ironic since that's also the same argument about being excessively "woke". We are all more alike than we think!

I like Grand Tour, but it's also not as good as Top Gear in its prime, but I think that has more to do with the way the media consumption landscape has changed. Top Gear is no longer the first time I hear about a car, it's already old news by the time it's shot, edited, and aired. Youtube has made even the most exclusive and exotic cars accessible with varying degrees of quality. There will never be another Top Gear because it's obsolete.

I agree, however, Top Gear is just a name. Top Gear has a YouTube channel. The chemistry between Richard, Jeremy, and James is what made the show because they still had a lot of "non-review" segments of the show, some of them really long, but they made me enjoy watching all that. Now I just fast forward through it all except the actual car review in each episode.

[svgM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

I like how Chris Harris drives and he expresses his opinions eloquently. He was one of the few car journalists that liked the F80 when it was widely derided for lack of steering feel and horrible sounding exhaust note. Both criticisms are true, but Harris recognized that the F80 still had many other strengths.

I tried to watch the new Top Gear, and it all feels forced. There is no real chemistry. However, I don't care about anything being "woke" one way or another. I get it, people are sick of being inclusive or sensitive to certain groups they don't identify with, but as a member of an ethnic minority in this part of the world, I've had to listen/watch/read stuff I don't necessarily identify with or like all the time. It's not really that big of a deal. People need to grow a thicker skin, which is ironic since that's also the same argument about being excessively "woke". We are all more alike than we think!

I like Grand Tour, but it's also not as good as Top Gear in its prime, but I think that has more to do with the way the media consumption landscape has changed. Top Gear is no longer the first time I hear about a car, it's already old news by the time it's shot, edited, and aired. Youtube has made even the most exclusive and exotic cars accessible with varying degrees of quality. There will never be another Top Gear because it's obsolete.

What exactly is “woke” about the new top gear? Asking honestly because I haven’t checked out the new one. I DO..and always have enjoyed Chris Harris though…enjoy his highly articulate way of saying what we might feel about a car better than most can..

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by adc

The same argument some are making against a performance SUV can absolutely be applied to a performance wagon. Physics rules, yes?

So you think an X3M is worse from a performance standpoint to an M3 Touring, because it sits taller and weighs more. Well the Touring is effectively a sedan with another big adult forever bolted to the trunk.

Now, could you take a Touring to the track and have fun with it? Absolutely, positively. After all, I took my X2M35i when my M3 was sidelined for a brake upgrade - and I had fun, and perhaps a few people were surprised at its performance envelope. But I did not have more fun than in my M, and at the end of the day the tires and brakes were toast so I am not planning for a repeat.

Of course as was noted, every M3 made with the exception of the E30 was a compromised performance platform, from Day 1. But there are degrees of compromising, and in my view the Touring is one too far. Would perhaps make a great daily driver and fun all around car, but could never really fulfill the track duty part of the contract. And I think that is reflected in the arguments of those who plan to buy one.

So while I admire BMWs mojo for putting this car together, I wouldnÂ’t buy one even if it were available in the US.


To stay on topic, I liked Chris Harris a lot more before he joined the snooze fest that is Top Gear these days.

M3 saloon does 0-62 in 3.5, while the Touring does it in 3.6. Where is that big compromise? That is actually amazing.

And since we are at physics, the X3M will never beat the Touring on curves and sinuous roads. TBH, it will not even be close… straight line might be good, but after that is game over. As a whole the SAV is already a compromise.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by svgM3

What exactly is “woke” about the new top gear? Asking honestly because I haven’t checked out the new one. I DO..and always have enjoyed Chris Harris though…enjoy his highly articulate way of saying what we might feel about a car better than most can..

I honestly have no idea. I never noticed it, I was simply replying to the poster's criticism that the show was woke. I don't really know, and honestly don't care.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I don’t agree on woke though, that shit is poison.

People be what they be. If they want to be woke, whatever, just entertain me!

[MichaelB1969]

This thread, goodness.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by jmg

The fixation on the grill is mostly others wanting to tell owners how ugly their car is for reasons they can only ask themselves. Then the owners are chastised for disagreeing about something that is inheritly subjective. It’s a catch 22 that favors those who just want to diminish the opinions of others.

Nobody wants to say anything to the owners. Not sure if you observed, there is quite some overall decency in here, as many that hate the new grill do not really go on posts about personal cars, or they refrain from doing it. But generic posts, especially ones on the main page are open to everyone. The fact that some perceive it otherwise, is their problem.
Not sure if people really look into personal justification of a feeling. Is a feeling, hence is a personal -subjective as you said- reaction to something. Period.
Not least, is a forum. We all have opinions.

[///393]

Wow that got weird…

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

Nobody wants to say anything to the owners. Not sure if you observed, there is quite some overall decency in here, as many that hate the new grill do not really go on posts about personal cars, or they refrain from doing it. But generic posts, especially ones on the main page are open to everyone. The fact that some perceive it otherwise, is their problem.
Not sure if people really look into personal justification of a feeling. Is a feeling, hence is a personal -subjective as you said- reaction to something. Period.
Not least, is a forum. We all have opinions.

I was referring to other threads and other posts, not in this thread, which was my point. There is hardly any talk of the grill here save for a few mentions. Which is surprising for the reasons I stated.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

You have to be able to make a statement that may offend someone. You have to be able to take a side and say this is good and this is bad.

Everything and I do mean everything in woke is “relative”.

Nothing is bad.
Everything is good to someone and we cannot ever say that one thing is better than another because that would give someone somewhere hurty feelings.

Woke makes life sterile and boring.
The NPC.

Top Gear feels like a show hosted by 3 NPC’s.

Ok, 2 NPC’s and Chris Harris.
They just do not have chemistry.
And honestly, how could you have chemistry when you have to be #1 priority - do not ever say anything offensive to anyone or be ruined forever.

I don’t even blame the hosts.

We should be able to make statements that might offend people, I agree. I just find it funny how people get offended that they get criticized for being offensive. Too much absurdity to burn any calories over. I don't care if Top Gear is woke or not, it's just not as fun to watch.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

There will never be another top gear, because clarkson and co. were the show, not the other way around. They were right pricks at times, but they were also damn funny and genuine people who you could relate to, humorous and lovable churls who just wanted to fuck around in fast cars.

Never did I ever think that anything said by Clarkson and co was said with the intent of harming someone or some thing. Intent is key. The reason that modern society is warm shit on a plate is that intent has been made invisible in the woke religion.

We all have to watch, listen, read things we disagree with lol. What makes you think that has anything to do with woke being shit?
It doesn’t.

Woke is shit because, it’s shit.
It’s all bullshit. As in, it’s 100% lies.

The majority of people do not want to hurt you, regardless of your skin color. If they happen to say something which offends you, then perhaps you (or anyone for that matter) should gauge their intent and let it roll off your back like all the rest of us have to do when someone or some thing inadvertently steps on our toes by accident. Woke is boring as fuck. It’s sterile.
Dead.

It’s a religion run by morons.

It goes without saying that anyone who actually is a racist or bigot or misogynist can kiss our collective ass. How do you think we got to this horrible point in history lol?

It’s OBVIOUS we care about all people, otherwise we wouldn’t be in the shitty cultural climate we are in where all anyone does in public is apologize endlessly and grovel for forgiveness at their being born.

Western Civ’s history is the [...]

Angry much? 😉

[Vishal50028]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

There will never be another top gear, because clarkson and co. were the show, not the other way around. They were right pricks at times, but they were also damn funny and genuine people who you could relate to, humorous and lovable churls who just wanted to fuck around in fast cars.

Never did I ever think that anything said by Clarkson and co was said with the intent of harming someone or some thing. Intent is key. The reason that modern society is warm shit on a plate is that intent has been made invisible in the woke religion.

We all have to watch, listen, read things we disagree with lol. What makes you think that has anything to do with woke being shit?
It doesn’t.

Woke is shit because, it’s shit.
It’s all bullshit. As in, it’s 100% lies.

The majority of people do not want to hurt you, regardless of your skin color. If they happen to say something which offends you, then perhaps you (or anyone for that matter) should gauge their intent and let it roll off your back like all the rest of us have to do when someone or some thing inadvertently steps on our toes by accident. Woke is boring as fuck. It’s sterile.
Dead.

It’s a religion run by morons.

It goes without saying that anyone who actually is a racist or bigot or misogynist can kiss our collective ass. How do you think we got to this horrible point in history lol?

It’s OBVIOUS we care about all people, otherwise we wouldn’t be in the shitty cultural climate we are in where all anyone does in public is apologize endlessly and grovel for forgiveness at their being born.

Western Civ’s history is the history of white people, and it is quite clear that western civ is willing to implode itself rather than accidentally use a word that might offend a single brown, gay, cripple, mental incompetent, female turned male or vice versa person ever again - even by accident lmao!

Did you not see that liberal’s Open AI Chat GPT-3 would let millions of people die rather than use one racial slur that might offend someone?

It’s a true fucking nightmare this ideology.

I do somewhat feel bad for people wrongly affected by the current cultural climate, and there are a lot of them, but at the same time people are going to have to figure out who their real friends are. If you as a minority think that woke white liberals are your friends and I am your enemy, ok.
Good luck to your children.

The only thing woke is really doing to me is harming my entertainment. I find that annoying but not life shattering.

If you think your child’s sex is interchangeable, that math is racist, that achievement and egalitarianism is white supremacy… good luck.

I’ll point out to you that nowhere else on Earth is doing what western civ is doing, which is destroying itself in an effort to become completely sterile, completely devoid of all cultural idiosyncrasies, completely devoid of tragedy and humor in a classical sense, in an effort to become completely inoffensive to anyone (except itself, of course… cause no one gives a damn what some poor white schmuck thinks or wants and they aren’t afraid to insult that category of person because it is perfectly acceptable to do so).

Woke is fake. White people have demonstrably shitty lives, the majority of them. Yet, woke acts like they are all kings and queens looking down on the little minority people with disdain. What a crock of shit. The vast, vast majority of white people treat everyone the same. There’s a great argument to made that whites in general are just shitty people ha ha, but you’ll never get a thinking human to actually believe anything woke is real. I think most normal people are just waiting for the fad to die out and the liberals to get bored of their new pets.

I imagine that statement offends you, but that is how liberals treat minorities, like pets. Please try to find the intent, as the barb is not pointed at you.

I will say that I don’t find you offensive at all, or anything you said offensive at all. I don’t agree with it and I think woke is a plague that stands to destroy the world, but I don’t find you offensive at all.

I find woke white liberals offensive and wish them nothing but a long walk off a short pier because they are turning the world to shit. They turned the BBC to shit. They turned Top Gear to shit. They are turning cars in general to shit. They are coming for meat, housing, children… they just want to destroy everything.

I’ve met a handful of actual racists my whole life, a handful. The liberals are changing nothing by the way for actual racists, but they are destroying the world for everyone else. Actual racists and bigots already were ostracized and largely kicked out of society and made their own little camps. Nothing has changed for them.

Now, women (as much as they drive me insane) actually have a valid complaint against misogyny in this world since they are treated like trash… and the wokesters answer to this is, just make men women. Let’s make women not exist.

There, problem solved!


Woke is the most hypocritical bullshit ideology ever invented. It constantly lies to itself and everyone in it 24/7 (only white people are racist, you can be the opposite sex, the world is ending due to petroleum, etc, etc...) Anything that goes against the woke ideology is instantly labeled racist, bigoted, and burned at the stake. There are no exceptions. Eventually they are going to start shooting themselves in a circular firing squad. Humor will return on that day.

If this is the sort of society you want so that you can ensure you are never offended. Have at it. It’s all yours. I never liked cities anyway, truly. I think they suck.

Back to the show…
Clarkson and co sold image, not cars. Watch the grand tour and tell me that you don’t want whatever car they featured that week. I sure did. They loved vehicles. They were honest, for the most part on what they did and didn’t like and I greatly enjoyed watching them have fun. It would not matter to me in the least if all the new Top Gear hosts were black as night as long as they were funny and loved cars and made me want to be with them while they explored the vehicles on the show. That’s all I want from Top Gear.

But that’ll never happen since the BBC is infested with Wokesters who are afraid of calling their own shadow black, and nothing is as unfunny as fear and timidity. Wokesters are riddled with it. Everything they touch turns to shit.

Modern society is a parade of idiots all patting each other on the back and Top Gear is no different. Chris Harris ought to dump Top Gear and just do his own thing. It’s dead, you’re right about that.

I don’t agree on woke though, that shit is poison.

rwnj psychobabble alert. you are just as annoying as the far left.

[svgM3]

Holy 😂

[madpistol]

The reason Clarkson, Hammond, and May work so well is the same reason that The Office worked... it was hilariously overdone, offensive, and designed at certain points to make you go "WTF!!!"

Today's Top Gear does none of that... but Chris Harris has an opinion, and he's not afraid to share it. Good on him. We need that mess in today's society to keep our sanity intact.

HOWEVER...

A TV show or presenter being offensive to their audience and the audience being a willing participant in that offensive behavior IS NOT the same thing as having a civil discussion on a forum. You can be a dick all you want, but the beauty about a forum is that if you're a dick, other people can call you out on it. You're more than welcome to say whatever the hell you want to, but if someone does not agree with you, they have every right to present a rebuttal. Of course, if you want to be a dick about it, well, as I said above, the gloves are off.

Soooooooo don't be a dick.

Clarkson is a loveable dick...


Gonna stop saying dick now.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I agree, but you should probably care.
We don’t live forever.

I’m just not afraid to offend you, or have thoughts you disagree with.

Also, kindly piss off.

See, that's much nicer now, don't you think 🤣🤣

They asked Dr Rice (Secretary of State under George Bush Jr) about the definition of diplomacy - I can't recall the exact words but it went something like:

Diplomacy is telling your opponent to go fudge himself and say it in such manner that he'll like it.

DM5PAV I consider you a friend and would never say anything purposely to cause offence. It doesn't mean I can't, or don't wish to (though I don't), it means I'm restrained enough to know it's pointless.

When I see a dickhead on the road doing dumb shit, and honk in protest, my 21yo son says, "Do you think you made him a better driver by just honking him? No, you just made yourself angry for nothing".

He has a very valid point.

Feel free to exercise your right to offend, equally feel free to exercise your right to be happy knowing you can't win over every dumb-ass in the world.

It's just an opinion but best be diplomatic rather than offensive.

And in conclusion, I actually agree with the fact that the golden trio made Top Gear a special and entertaining program which was as much about humour as it was about cars. I miss that.

You remain a friend irrespective of what you tell me