[vbb]

There are endless threads on dozens if not hundreds of car enthusiast sites comparing things to the Porsche. That's a sign that they're truly the benchmark. They're the best blend of performance, reliability, approachability, and utility that money can buy.

That said, somewhere over the last 10yrs or so, Porsche seems to have FULLY realized their potential in the open market. The 911 used to be the car that one could work hard and afford one day, and now we have the Cayman 4.0 going for $110K and the Carrera T going for $140K. Turbos and GT3s are in the $200s, and the truly special, limited edition types are going well beyond that. These are MSRPs, not dealer markups. Prices are gone, and I don't think they're coming back.

As much as I accept and agree that Porsche makes a better car than BMW, price is and always will be a factor. As mentioned before, I've owned 4 Porsches (2 911s, a Cayman and a Boxster) over the years, but I'm starting to squint really hard to see a reason to spend that kind of money when there are so many other options out there that bring most of the same fun for a lot less.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by vbb

As much as I accept and agree that Porsche makes a better car than BMW, price is and always will be a factor. As mentioned before, I've owned 4 Porsches (2 911s, a Cayman and a Boxster) over the years, but I'm starting to squint really hard to see a reason to spend that kind of money when there are so many other options out there that bring most of the same fun for a lot less.

Yep. After 25 years of 911s, with a GTS Cab spec'd the way I want it costing over $200k, I found my way to an M4 (by way of an M8). For me, the M4 is 85% of the 911 at half the price.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by vbb

As much as I accept and agree that Porsche makes a better car than BMW, price is and always will be a factor.

Dunno, a quick Google suggests my G81 will lap the Nurburgring only a few seconds slower than a 992 Carrera S for a lot less money, while having the ability to seat four in comfort, five when needed, and haul a load of stuff.

As much as I’ve enjoyed the Porsches I’ve driven, can’t help but feel impressed by what BMW is accomplishing on a lower (though still admittedly far from cheap) budget.

The compromise on these cars feels like it’s never been smaller than it has in the past. The the G8x is fast, fun, comfortable, practical and offers huge bang for the buck.

Doesn’t stop me desiring a 911, but at this point in my life my performance car needs to have a few more tricks up its sleeve to let me justify having it in the driveway, and admittedly a lower price tag.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MJBO

Dunno, a quick Google suggests my G81 will lap the Nurburgring only a few seconds slower than a 992 Carrera S for a lot less money, while having the ability to seat four in comfort, five when needed, and haul a load of stuff.

As much as I’ve enjoyed the Porsches I’ve driven, can’t help but feel impressed by what BMW is accomplishing on a lower (though still admittedly far from cheap) budget.

Doesn’t stop me desiring a 911, but at this point in my life my performance car needs to have a few more tricks up its sleeve to let me justify having it in the driveway, and admittedly a lower price tag.

There is something about the way that Porsche sports cars drive that BMW hasn't captured. Really, it's because BMW doesn't make sports cars. They make a sports sedan / coupe based on a platform made for a sedan, coupe and wagon. Except the Z4, which I drove Friday and actually isn't bad!

But again, starting from a dedicated sports car platform, not to mention one that's been honed and refined for FIFTY YEARS has it's advantages. It's not just about lap times. They nail all the intangibles.

But I agree. The price has gotten ridiculous.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

There is something about the way that Porsche sports cars drive that BMW hasn't captured.

The biggest something is weight imo. Porsche understands to the core that no amount of horsepower can overcome the diminished handling characteristics of more weight. Are there faster cars than Porsche 911s? Sure, my M8 was a case in point. Are there better handling cars than Porsche 911s? Not many/any.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by hinckley

The biggest something is weight imo. Porsche understands to the core that no amount of horsepower can overcome the diminished handling characteristics of more weight. Are there faster cars than Porsche 911s? Sure, my M8 was a case in point. Are there better handling cars than Porsche 911s? Not many/any.

Weight advantage
Rear bias
Traction
Ride height

The feeling of being pushed in a 911 is very unique. Always feels faster to me even if it’s not. My dads 993 felt like a rocket ship in second gear but it was 5 seconds to 60 and 13.6 in the 1/4.

And their mid engine setup has handling advantages, although I prefer oversteer to understeer

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by hinckley

The biggest something is weight imo. Porsche understands to the core that no amount of horsepower can overcome the diminished handling characteristics of more weight. Are there faster cars than Porsche 911s? Sure, my M8 was a case in point. Are there better handling cars than Porsche 911s? Not many/any.

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Weight advantage
Rear bias
Traction
Ride height

The feeling of being pushed in a 911 is very unique. Always feels faster to me even if it’s not. My dads 993 felt like a rocket ship in second gear but it was 5 seconds to 60 and 13.6 in the 1/4.

And their mid engine setup has handling advantages, although I prefer oversteer to understeer

Both of these are true. I think one thing that's overlooked is the "Porsche Horsepower". Unlike BMW who has clearly underrated the S58's peak ratings, Porsche HP comes from a combination of weight plus the ability to deploy it. Being rear or mid-engined means less drivetrain loss, better weight bias for acceleration and I think Porsche's engine mapping is some of the best in the business, even on turbo engines. They clearly punch above their weight. Driven a 500 HP GT3 back to back with a 500 HP G80....results are predictable.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by vbb

There are endless threads on dozens if not hundreds of car enthusiast sites comparing things to the Porsche. That's a sign that they're truly the benchmark. They're the best blend of performance, reliability, approachability, and utility that money can buy.

That said, somewhere over the last 10yrs or so, Porsche seems to have FULLY realized their potential in the open market. The 911 used to be the car that one could work hard and afford one day, and now we have the Cayman 4.0 going for $110K and the Carrera T going for $140K. Turbos and GT3s are in the $200s, and the truly special, limited edition types are going well beyond that. These are MSRPs, not dealer markups. Prices are gone, and I don't think they're coming back.

As much as I accept and agree that Porsche makes a better car than BMW, price is and always will be a factor. As mentioned before, I've owned 4 Porsches (2 911s, a Cayman and a Boxster) over the years, but I'm starting to squint really hard to see a reason to spend that kind of money when there are so many other options out there that bring most of the same fun for a lot less.

There is one more factor to consider with prices going up and up and up. Even if I go crazy and spend $150K or $200K on a car, I am going to be constantly worried about it. That's not much fun. If that kind of money is no big deal, then sure go for it.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

There is something about the way that Porsche sports cars drive that BMW hasn't captured. Really, it's because BMW doesn't make sports cars. They make a sports sedan / coupe based on a platform made for a sedan, coupe and wagon. Except the Z4, which I drove Friday and actually isn't bad!

But again, starting from a dedicated sports car platform, not to mention one that's been honed and refined for FIFTY YEARS has it's advantages. It's not just about lap times. They nail all the intangibles.

But I agree. The price has gotten ridiculous.

At least with the P cars your resale is always much much better than BMW. So it’s a bit easier to pay more I guess? I borrow a buddies 18 Miami Blue GT3 and every time I take it I just proves it’s the best car I have driven. Sound better than the 458? Maybe 🤔

[vbb]

Originally Posted by hinckley

For me, the M4 is 85% of the 911 at half the price.

Yep. Same conclusion I reached, which is why I also have a G82.

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

There is one more factor to consider with prices going up and up and up. Even if I go crazy and spend $150K or $200K on a car, I am going to be constantly worried about it. That's not much fun. If that kind of money is no big deal, then sure go for it.

Very true. If I were to buy that GT3 manual that I was drooling over, I'd be absolutely paranoid about owning it. Knowing myself, I'd be terrified that it'd get damaged, wouldn't want to rack up mileage on it, and wouldn't even think of touching it with any mods. All those things would actually diminish the ownership experience. I'd be looking at it like an investment I can hard park at the local Cars & Coffees rather than a fun car to drive, because even though I could technically get a GT3, I can't really afford it. With my M4 I can drive and enjoy it, knowing full well it's just going to depreciate, and not worry about it. That actually makes it fun to own, even if not fiscally the best move.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

At least with the P cars your resale is always much much better than BMW. So it’s a bit easier to pay more I guess? I borrow a buddies 18 Miami Blue GT3 and every time I take it I just proves it’s the best car I have driven. Sound better than the 458? Maybe 🤔

How about a base 911 at 12k miles/year? No way I lose less than an M3. I put 10k miles on mine and lost $5k on the trade. I put 30k on my e93 and lost 13k. 14k on my e46 and lost 6k. Plus taxes and maintenance.

Where this works is on a GT car and at lower mileage, maybe 5k/year.

[Fugly M3]

I say go for it!

[Juanero]

GTS4.0 is a canyon carving car. not much does it better. it actually makes a great daily and with the front and the rear, the luggage space is surprising. it really is a great car. get it; but then don't ride in a 911 again, though.