[TractionControlDelete]

[Forzanerazzurri]

No xdrive no party

[forcefed]

There guys can't launch.

[mirob]

On what planet does the AR weigh 3300 lbs.? Sure af ain't earth.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by mirob

On what planet does the AR weigh 3300 lbs.? Sure af ain't earth.

For some reason Alfa Romeo has been able to get away with this absurdly low claimed weight for the car’s entire lifecycle. Almost every comparison has some low number - obviously they get reviewed much less often now but back in 2015-2017 journalists were reporting it wrong left and right. The issue is how the weight is presented: the DIN weight is 3300lbs but the EU Curb weight is over 3800lbs (US Curb weight is also a different number).

Car and Driver has the best way of handling matters because they simply weigh the cars with a full tank of fuel. Result… 3,830lbs

[mirob]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

For some reason Alfa Romeo has been able to get away with this absurdly low claimed weight for the car’s entire lifecycle. Almost every comparison has some low number - obviously they get reviewed much less often now but back in 2015-2017 journalists were reporting it wrong left and right. The issue is how the weight is presented: the DIN weight is 3300lbs but the EU Curb weight is over 3800lbs (US Curb weight is also a different number).

Car and Driver has the best way of handling matters because they simply weigh the cars with a full tank of fuel. Result… 3,830lbs

That makes more sense. Gotta exploit every loophole you can, I suppose.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by mirob

That makes more sense. Gotta exploit every loophole you can, I suppose.

I guess so. It was a pretty ridiculous time though. They did the same thing with the tires as well. While BMW, Audi, and Mercedes were showing up with 300 treadwear Pilot Super Sports, Alfa had the car equipped with 60 treadwear Pirelli P Zero Corsa’s. For context, the Michelin Cup 2 tires at the time were 240 treadwear. Taken further, even the modern Michelin Cup 2 R tires equipped on the M4 CSL and the Porsche GT3 RS today are still 150 treadwear.

Alfa was getting away with (car review) murder on those comparison tests

Notice how on that Car and Driver test above the Alfa had .98 for lateral grip, right? Here’s how much tires can change the game… Motor Trend tested an F80 equipped with Cup 2 tires and the M-Performance suspension where they noted the following:

“The tires and suspension shined in testing, especially on the figure eight where the modified M3 shaved 0.8 second off the time of a standard M3 Competition Pack. Road test editor Chris Walton noted how flat the car remained on the course and liked the grip of the upgraded rubber. "I was impressed with how well this M3 put the power down, and much of it must be owed to the Cup tires," he said. The modified M3 also held 1.06 g on the skidpad, greater than an M3 with just the Competition Package (0.98 g) and our old long-term 2015 M3 (0.99 g).”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...t-test-review/

[mirob]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

I guess so. It was a pretty ridiculous time though. They did the same thing with the tires as well. While BMW, Audi, and Mercedes were showing up with 300 treadwear Pilot Super Sports, Alfa had the car equipped with 60 treadwear Pirelli P Zero Corsa’s. For context, the Michelin Cup 2 tires at the time were 240 treadwear. Taken further, even the modern Michelin Cup 2 R tires equipped on the M4 CSL and the Porsche GT3 RS today are still 150 treadwear.

Alfa was getting away with (car review) murder on those comparison tests

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying to win.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

I guess so. It was a pretty ridiculous time though. They did the same thing with the tires as well. While BMW, Audi, and Mercedes were showing up with 300 treadwear Pilot Super Sports, Alfa had the car equipped with 60 treadwear Pirelli P Zero Corsa’s. For context, the Michelin Cup 2 tires at the time were 240 treadwear. Taken further, even the modern Michelin Cup 2 R tires equipped on the M4 CSL and the Porsche GT3 RS today are still 150 treadwear.

Alfa was getting away with (car review) murder on those comparison tests

Notice how on that Car and Driver test above the Alfa had .98 for lateral grip, right? Here’s how much tires can change the game… Motor Trend tested an F80 equipped with Cup 2 tires and the M-Performance suspension where they noted the following:

“The tires and suspension shined in testing, especially on the figure eight where the modified M3 shaved 0.8 second off the time of a standard M3 Competition Pack. Road test editor Chris Walton noted how flat the car remained on the course and liked the grip of the upgraded rubber. "I was impressed with how well this M3 put the power down, and much of it must be owed to the Cup tires," he said. The modified M3 also held 1.06 g on the skidpad, greater than an M3 with just the Competition Package (0.98 g) and our old long-term 2015 M3 (0.99 g).”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...t-test-review/

Pzeros Corsas have an 80 treadwear. They are insane.

[SE7EN335]

In my opinion, M3 Competition (even RWD) is still a fair bit superior to the Alfa QV if both vehicles have the same tyres.

Pros for M3 Comp: better interior, better engine, better safety tech and creature comforts, better aftermarket power potential, better aftermarket tuneability, better traction, better practicality and better reliability.

Pros for Alfa QV: better steering feel and handling, and lighter weight.

If you value the pros of the M3 more than the pros of the Alfa, then the M3 is the better choice and vice versa

[Llarry]

And then there's the issue of reliability: Big advantage BMW unless Alfa has gotten their act together in the past couple of years. The quickest car in world is slow when it is sitting in a dealership service bay.

[somer]

Are these QV's still coming with carbon fiber driveshafts? Real shame that couldn't have continued into the G8x generation.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Llarry

And then there's the issue of reliability: Big advantage BMW unless Alfa has gotten their act together in the past couple of years. The quickest car in world is slow when it is sitting in a dealership service bay.

Alfas are generally very reliable. I nearly bought a Quad a few months ago and most owners of them tend to be owners of other high end brands, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc. and nearly all of them said the Alfa was more realiable than the German rivals. I did extensive research on this and many have significant mileage (50-100K) with good track records.
Alfa has been ranked as one of the most reliable in EU and it was just ranked best in quality in the US. Just as a means of comparison, the 2017 Giulia Quad which had some issues with software had 11 TSBs that year, the 2017 Panamera has 297 TSBs.

Overall, the Quad models are fantastic and generally speaking carry more emotion to them despite being a bit lacking in terms of performance vs a G8x M3/4. Thing of it as a GT Porsche vs a 911 turbo S. Sure the turbo S is much faster but doesnt give you quite the experience.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Alfas are generally very reliable. I nearly bought a Quad a few months ago and most owners of them tend to be owners of other high end brands, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc. and nearly all of them said the Alfa was more realiable than the German rivals. I did extensive research on this and many have significant mileage (50-100K) with good track records.
Alfa has been ranked as one of the most reliable in EU and it was just ranked best in quality in the US. Just as a means of comparison, the 2017 Giulia Quad which had some issues with software had 11 TSBs that year, the 2017 Panamera has 297 TSBs.

Overall, the Quad models are fantastic and generally speaking carry more emotion to them despite being a bit lacking in terms of performance vs a G8x M3/4. Thing of it as a GT Porsche vs a 911 turbo S. Sure the turbo S is much faster but doesnt give you quite the experience.

The Alfa forums beg to differ. Its like a compete warzone over there. Those cars are abhorrent when it comes to reliability.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by somer

Are these QV's still coming with carbon fiber driveshafts? Real shame that couldn't have continued into the G8x generation.

It would have been nice to have but it's not surprising we didn't get it because they didn't even last through the entire F8X generation.

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Alfas are generally very reliable... and nearly all of them said the Alfa was more realiable than the German rivals. Alfa has been ranked as one of the most reliable in EU and it was just ranked best in quality in the US.

I genuinely laughed out loud at this. Thanks for that, I needed it this morning.

[02M3ForMe]

Weight is so critical to the driving experience that enthusiasts and professional journalists couldn’t tell that a 3,300-pound car (spec sheet) is actually 3,800 pounds.

If BMW told everyone that the G80 weighed 100 pounds less than the F80, they’d believe it.