[Gfit]

If BMW built a car to cater to the GTR audience it would be a money loser big time. Sure it would be awesome but wouldn't sell as well as the current model and would certainly be a heck of a lot more expensive. 10 years ago the GTR was $40,000 more than the current M3 is so if the M3 had an adjusted target price of say $175,000 we would have a different car.

[kyleb350]

New GTR's are doing the 1/4 at 11.2? The last I saw Evolve's stock G80 did an 11.7. Will they be equal when the xDrive version is released? Gotta think so.

The good thing about the R35 being 14 years old is that is has a tremendous aftermarket and some of the quickest modded street cars out there. Here we're still waiting for the new ECU to be unlocked...

[bri1042]

Not up against an M, but we have a modern day view of the GTR posted this morning:

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Not up against an M, but we have a modern day view of the GTR posted this morning:

I just saw this, and I have to agree with him on alot of points having owned both cars (non nismo though)...

The NSX for daily use is shockingly fluid and the electronics really assist in the entrance and exit of turns with the immediate tq add. But the car does sound like shit for a V6 TT... I modded mine with 100 cell cats though. And his point about the seats was spot on. The NSX seats, while only have limited power adjustments, are hyper comfy.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Not sure what point you think I made, Sick. Your "14 years to catch up" mantra is what I take issue with as a false comparison due to the limited production nature of the GTR. That's it. I agree with you on nearly every other point (including the fun of being in your 20's in the early 90's...it was a blast). Do I think the G80 is a home run? I don't know that I think any car being made today that 99% of the populace can afford is actually a home run. The best we get nowadays is a solid triple...and that's probably all we ever got if we remove nostalgia from the equation.

Also, who hates the GTR? People are weird. It's been years since I drove one, but it's a great car. I recall thinking it felt a bit clinical and electronic, but I will agree that other cars have since come to meet the GTR in that respect, unfortunately. I'd guess that the overly clinical nature of the GTR would be barely noticeable now if you test drove it on the same day as most modern cars. And it wouldn't even BE noticeable if the other car you drove against it was a Tesla.

Directly addressing the point of this thread with my memory of driving a '13 (or '14?) GTR, I'm not sure any of us can accomplish the comparison in text. The GTR is faster than the RWD M's, and maybe more unique, but I think the OP would need to actually drive them and weigh the dinosaur interior and tech of the GTR, the larger size of the M3/4 (plus/minus depending on needs and preference), the costs of obtaining each car in the modern age, etc. And the comparison is poor if it isn't against the AWD M3 instead of the RWD version.

The GTR is still a home run when it comes to speed and track capability, but in my opinion it isn't a home run in any other category anymore. When the AWD M's get tested, it'll be interesting to see what the performance delta is.

I agree. If anyone bought a GTR for comfort and Tech, they should have their head checked!! You don't buy that car for that. Never built for those reasons. I think the M cars could have been home run from the factory. Aftermarket they will be. But you me to tell me, they could give you a little more bang in the power range? Give 600/600 out of the gate!!!! For god sake. Then you are talking about a bad ass track/street car in stock form. That's all I was hoping. I modify all my stuff way over factory, so for me I could car less. Just wish It could have been a bit more feisty out of the box. The M's are always going to have the comfort and Tech. We all know that. Soon enough there will be 7,8, 900 horse power ones around. Then they are a home run

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I just saw this, and I have to agree with him on alot of points having owned both cars (non nismo though)...

The NSX for daily use is shockingly fluid and the electronics really assist in the entrance and exit of turns with the immediate tq add. But the car does sound like shit for a V6 TT... I modded mine with 100 cell cats though. And his point about the seats was spot on. The NSX seats, while only have limited power adjustments, are hyper comfy.

As usual, very nice car you had. I was always kicking around to do the NSX, just never made the plunge. never go wrong with that Honda reliability

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

As usual, very nice car you had. I was always kicking around to do the NSX, just never made the plunge. never go wrong with that Honda reliability

It was nice car to have (NSX) for about a year and a half but even with a jb4 tune, the car couldnt get out of the way of the electrics as it was impossible to get an ecu tune that could coordinate with the motors. I think the fastest piggy car with dp's was running maybe 10.6x at 130.

But around the city, shit the car was great and the msrp price point while high, was not what most were buying new (40k underish).

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by Vic55

It was nice car to have (NSX) for about a year and a half but even with a jb4 tune, the car couldnt get out of the way of the electrics as it was impossible to get an ecu tune that could coordinate with the motors. I think the fastest piggy car with dp's was running maybe 10.6x at 130.

But around the city, shit the car was great and the msrp price point while high, was not what most were buying new (40k underish).

I remember reading about the tuning issues. Have they fixed that do you know? That turbo whistle you had was Magical by the way

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I remember reading about the tuning issues. Have they fixed that do you know?

I dont think so--- no demand for a tuned nsx.

When I got mine, there was no piggy either back in the latter part of 2018. I do miss those magnetorheological dampers; unbelievable comfort and flow on even the worst roads.

Edit: about that whistle, so sexy yo and so prevalent with the 100 cells.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I agree. If anyone bought a GTR for comfort and Tech, they should have their head checked!! You don't buy that car for that. Never built for those reasons. I think the M cars could have been home run from the factory. Aftermarket they will be. But you me to tell me, they could give you a little more bang in the power range? Give 600/600 out of the gate!!!! For god sake. Then you are talking about a bad ass track/street car in stock form. That's all I was hoping. I modify all my stuff way over factory, so for me I could car less. Just wish It could have been a bit more feisty out of the box. The M's are always going to have the comfort and Tech. We all know that. Soon enough there will be 7,8, 900 horse power ones around. Then they are a home run

Hah, you're going to be so appalled by my answer to your question.

Nope. I don't think the M3, either version, actually needs more power. If it WAS a GT-R, then maybe so since the GT-R is, as you said, so lacking in "one car to do all" features. Then I'd be buying a track and bragging-rights car, not my daily driver.

Look, to make this clear - I don't think most people should have cars faster than this. Drivers, including those of us on this forum, are, by and large, not as good as we think we are behind the wheel. Fast cars have serious exceeded most drivers' ability to handle them and react to mistakes or unexpected occurrences. If that's not you, you are the exception and only you and your willingness to be honest with yourself can answer that question. The average, or even slightly above average, driver should not be driving a Model 3 Performance. They aren't good enough to deal with it. That driver also shouldn't be driving 400+ HP ICE cars. But power has gotten so cheap that many of them do. Thankfully, much of the weight gain of modern cars includes structural and active safety features. Folk need them.

In addition to that issue, the amount of time we have to enjoy our cars before we're exceeding safe and/or legal limits is getting so short that I feel that the industry is doing us all a disservice in pursuit of numbers for marketing. I'm not a "slow car fast" human, but I don't see much use in a 0-60 below 3 seconds, either. Except for track and bragging-rights usage.

Totally fine if you think I'm nuts, but I DO think they brought this car to the market with the right amount of power...or close to it. If someone else needs more power out of it, I suppose that's what the tuning market is for (while it's still legal...sigh..).

Hope that clarifies my views...not expecting anyone to abandon their differing views.

Sorry for the thread hijack, OP.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Hah, you're going to be so appalled by my answer to your question.

Nope. I don't think the M3, either version, actually needs more power. If it WAS a GT-R, then maybe so since the GT-R is, as you said, so lacking in "one car to do all" features. Then I'd be buying a track and bragging-rights car, not my daily driver.

Look, to make this clear - I don't think most people should have cars faster than this. Drivers, including those of us on this forum, are, by and large, not as good as we think we are behind the wheel. Fast cars have serious exceeded most drivers' ability to handle them and react to mistakes or unexpected occurrences. If that's not you, you are the exception and only you and your willingness to be honest with yourself can answer that question. The average, or even slightly above average, driver should not be driving a Model 3 Performance. They aren't good enough to deal with it. That driver also shouldn't be driving 400+ HP ICE cars. But power has gotten so cheap that many of them do. Thankfully, much of the weight gain of modern cars includes structural and active safety features. Folk need them.

In addition to that issue, the amount of time we have to enjoy our cars before we're exceeding safe and/or legal limits is getting so short that I feel that the industry is doing us all a disservice in pursuit of numbers for marketing. I'm not a "slow car fast" human, but I don't see much use in a 0-60 below 3 seconds, either. Except for track and bragging-rights usage.

Totally fine if you think I'm nuts, but I DO think they brought this car to the market with the right amount of power...or close to it. If someone else needs more power out of it, I suppose that's what the tuning market is for (while it's still legal...sigh..).

Hope that clarifies my views...not expecting anyone to abandon their differing views.

Sorry for the thread hijack, OP.

No need to apologize my friend. I would never sit here and write that I haven't driven like an idiot before. I feel I have gotten little more responsible with age. LOL. I also still do pulls in my GTR and once in awhile with the M4. Definitely need to be careful when dealing with these high HP cars. You go from 40-120 in a few seconds. Still can't imagine these dudes with 1800-2000 HP. Bonkers!!

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Sorry then, 9 years lol. No need to get all defensive homie.

You spend significant time in a forum for a car you don't own nor have serious plans to own and you spend practically all of that time spreading somewhat-subtle negativity about what has been repeatedly declared by owners and reviewers as a great performance car. Take a gander in the mirror.

Everyone knows what a GTR is; no need to defend it nor assert over and over that it's faster than the $40k cheaper G8x.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

You spend significant time in a forum for a car you don't own nor have serious plans to own and you spend practically all of that time spreading somewhat-subtle negativity about what has been repeatedly declared by owners and reviewers as a great performance car. Take a gander in the mirror.

Everyone knows what a GTR is; no need to defend it nor assert over and over that it's faster than the $40k cheaper G8x.

Yo chief. I've said before I may own one down the road. At this moment I'm going another direction. I'm not defending anything. I said 1 thing that I was't happy with. Sorry if it blows your dress up. Sorry, 2 things. The stance is a no-go for me from factory. Here we go again with the price These new G cars are going to be compared to price points all over. Such as a GT4 and so on. That's fun debate. You are a fanboy for BMW and that's cool. To each his own. I 'm down with all cars. I'm trading my F-82 in on an Audi, Chevy or maybe a Lotus:thump: Never had one of those before. It's Friday homie, have a drink or 2 and chill. I'm headed to the beach in my 40K more expensive Nissan. Hopefully I can smoke some junk M cars on the expressway. OBVIOUSLY, that was sarcasm. Have a fabulous weekend Ninja

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

Yo chief. I've said before I may own one down the road. At this moment I'm going another direction. I'm not defending anything. I said 1 thing that I was't happy with. Sorry if it blows your dress up. Sorry, 2 things. The stance is a no-go for me from factory. Here we go again with the price These new G cars are going to be compared to price points all over. Such as a GT4 and so on. That's fun debate. You are a fanboy for BMW and that's cool. To each his own. I 'm down with all cars. I'm trading my F-82 in on an Audi, Chevy or maybe a Lotus:thump: Never had one of those before. It's Friday homie, have a drink or 2 and chill. I'm headed to the beach in my 40K more expensive Nissan. Hopefully I can smoke some junk M cars on the expressway. OBVIOUSLY, that was sarcasm. Have a fabulous weekend Ninja

Fabulous. Go do that; enjoy.

[mus27]

I'd take a gt350r all day over a GTR. Or if you're into soulless cars, just get a model 3 instead of the GTR. They have about the same soul and power.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I agree. If anyone bought a GTR for comfort and Tech, they should have their head checked!! You don't buy that car for that. Never built for those reasons. I think the M cars could have been home run from the factory. Aftermarket they will be. But you me to tell me, they could give you a little more bang in the power range? Give 600/600 out of the gate!!!! For god sake. Then you are talking about a bad ass track/street car in stock form. That's all I was hoping. I modify all my stuff way over factory, so for me I could car less. Just wish It could have been a bit more feisty out of the box. The M's are always going to have the comfort and Tech. We all know that. Soon enough there will be 7,8, 900 horse power ones around. Then they are a home run

Thing is, I don't think BMW would make the M3/4 faster than the M5 or M8. It looks like the AWD G8x will likely slot in just below those cars in terms of acceleration and this is by design! I agree aftermarket will open up the vast potential of this platform.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by mus27

I'd take a gt350r all day over a GTR. Or if you're into soulless cars, just get a model 3 instead of the GTR. They have about the same soul and power.

I do like the 350R. Just not a Mustang fan, never have been. Just so many on the road. One of my favorite cars to smoke. Stang/Vettes

[Needsdecaf]

Ugh, why was AI chat invented? Go away Bot!