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      10-17-2020, 11:50 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I've shown this car to multiple people (...including women I date of have dated, as mentioned in other posts) and they've all liked it. Me stating that it's "in your face" isn't a criticism, but rather an observation of its significantly more aggressive styling relative to the cars that preceded it. The F8X was significantly more aggressive than the car that preceded it, albeit not as much as a G8X v. F8X comparison.
What I was referring to was how pretty this car is...or lack thereof. Here is a copy of a post I posted on another thread:

I think a lot of people think it's growing on them or they actually like it but in reality, they are drawn to it simply because it's different and over the top. I haven't found one person that actually thinks these monstrosities are beautiful or elegant. Nobody has commented on the beautiful and flowing and congruent lines because they simply don't exist. All the major BMW design cues that have won them praise for decades are gone. The front and the rear end don't even match each other and they're from completely different design styles.

Bottom line, it is so different and so obnoxious and that's the appeal. But wait till you put a US license plate on the front or no license plate that all and you will see this gaping bucktooth nightmare that's asymmetrical. Chris Harris described it the best:

"The new M3 and M4 appearing to have borrowed facial features from a yawning rabbit"

Last edited by thebmw; 10-17-2020 at 12:24 PM..
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      10-17-2020, 12:07 PM   #46
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Lol. I love my F82 for how muscular, wide and aggressive it is, three attributes I would not look for in my significant other.
lol i'm dying, awesome !
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      10-17-2020, 01:27 PM   #47
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The F80 was indeed a let down the first ~18 months of its sales period. It was very snappy and it could bite his driver giving the feeling it was working constantly against him. After that initial period, the set-up changed and as from that moment, I only read (very) positive reviews actually.

I'am not a gifted driver, but the M4 competitions I drove all felt like razor sharp and as from the go, I felt connected with it! Much more than with the F90 M5 actually.
Having one of the first batch F80's I can firmly say that the snappiness as an undesirable aspect does not apply to the MT cars. It was only a complaint with the DCT. For me the agressive TQ spike is one of the best parts of this car.
I agree... I miss that initial tune; it was an absolute riot to drive
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      10-17-2020, 03:05 PM   #48
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Iíve owned the original non-ZCP F80 M3, and now the ZCP. Iíve driven the CS, and Stage1 cars. For all of these, Iíve never understood what the hell people complain about with lack of traction.

Seems to me people were perhaps used of NA engines where you can drop the throttle like an on off switch - with not a lot of torque, things were docile. With the S55, you just have to learn throttle modulation but there is still *plenty* of traction.

Iíve driven mines dry/wet/snow on the street, and dry/wet on track. At no time did it seem like a snappy monster or an accident waiting to happen. I just donít get these comments...
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      10-17-2020, 03:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
I’ve owned the original non-ZCP F80 M3, and now the ZCP. I’ve driven the CS, and Stage1 cars. For all of these, I’ve never understood what the hell people complain about with lack of traction.

Seems to me people were perhaps used of NA engines where you can drop the throttle like an on off switch - with not a lot of torque, things were docile. With the S55, you just have to learn throttle modulation but there is still *plenty* of traction.

I’ve driven mines dry/wet/snow on the street, and dry/wet on track. At no time did it seem like a snappy monster or an accident waiting to happen. I just don’t get these comments...
Honesty too many people that can't drive let alone drive a high HP RWD car own these cars. They then proceed to complain when in fact they should have just bought an ///M340 AWD grocery machine.

It's a moot point now as the new "///M"s are basically glorified ///M340s
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      10-17-2020, 04:26 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by burnsniper View Post
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
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Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
His is tuned so a torque monster and he likes a ragged edge. I agree S65 is way more my thing vs N54 in any state of tune.
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
Spoken like E92 or M2 owners who didn't get lucky enough to score a 1M. Approximately 1/100 reviewers agree with your opinion.

I agree that the S65 is better than an N54, but the 1M is way better than the sum of its parts. Looks are subjective, but very few cars a as comical/concept car looking than a 1M with its giant wheels and fender flares which pictures don't do it justice.

Ironically the F8X and M2 are BMW's attempts to mix the 1M DNA with the E9X DNA. While the F8X is a great car (I have one), the result is more of an E39 M5 vs a traditional M3.
That's not true at all. I'm an original E92 M3 owner, bought in 2010, and I had the option to purchase the 1M instead. But It's a parts bin car.

Regardless, the M2 is better than the 1M. Literally, it does everything better.

People spend gazillions on a used 1M as oppose to buying an M2. To each their own.
On paper the M2 is better. However, the 1M is old school meets new school. The 1M is lighter and smaller. It dynos with more power (ZCP excepted) at wheels and has a massive torque spike/overboost. The 1M also has a bespoke with dual mass fly wheel and 6 speed.

Ultimately, the torque, small wheelbase, and fast ratio hydraulic steering all add up to much more than its parts bin parts and make it one of the best drivers cars ever made.
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      10-17-2020, 07:16 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
How can you not like the E92 M3?
It is the most entertaining "thing" one can have
.


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      10-17-2020, 08:59 PM   #52
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I have an advantage that I get to drive all these different cars every day.

The 1M feels special. The E90 M3 feels special. The F series M cars, while having great numbers, do not feel special. They are completely lacking in character, too rough, too twitchy, no feedback. The new G series cars are leaps and bounds better. They really feel like a modern interpretation of the older E series cars. They feel planted, solid. You can feel them take a set in the corner and grip. I would happily take a new 340 over any F M car. Don't talk to me about stats, go and drive one. I feel the current M2 is better in this regard, but still not as good as the 1M. The next gen M2 is the car I am anxiously awaiting. That may be the best drivers car BMW has made in a long time, or ever again.

If they do these new M cars right, they are going to be phenomenal. Too bad about the face.
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      10-18-2020, 12:41 AM   #53
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Unrelated pet peeeve...the thread title ...why do you say "g8x m3 and m4" The x covers it! It's like wasted abbreviation ...kind of how people write POTUS as if it's less letters than trump or Obama. End rant...
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      10-18-2020, 02:36 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I've shown this car to multiple people (...including women I date of have dated, as mentioned in other posts) and they've all liked it. Me stating that it's "in your face" isn't a criticism, but rather an observation of its significantly more aggressive styling relative to the cars that preceded it. The F8X was significantly more aggressive than the car that preceded it, albeit not as much as a G8X v. F8X comparison.
What I was referring to was how pretty this car is...or lack thereof. Here is a copy of a post I posted on another thread:

I think a lot of people think it's growing on them or they actually like it but in reality, they are drawn to it simply because it's different and over the top. I haven't found one person that actually thinks these monstrosities are beautiful or elegant. Nobody has commented on the beautiful and flowing and congruent lines because they simply don't exist. All the major BMW design cues that have won them praise for decades are gone. The front and the rear end don't even match each other and they're from completely different design styles.

Bottom line, it is so different and so obnoxious and that's the appeal. But wait till you put a US license plate on the front or no license plate that all and you will see this gaping bucktooth nightmare that's asymmetrical. Chris Harris described it the best:

"The new M3 and M4 appearing to have borrowed facial features from a yawning rabbit"
Well that's certainly an opinion and you are entitled to it. For me personally, I don't generally find M3's to be elegant nor beautiful. I think they are aggressive looking cars.
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      10-18-2020, 05:43 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Iíve owned the original non-ZCP F80 M3, and now the ZCP. Iíve driven the CS, and Stage1 cars. For all of these, Iíve never understood what the hell people complain about with lack of traction.

Seems to me people were perhaps used of NA engines where you can drop the throttle like an on off switch - with not a lot of torque, things were docile. With the S55, you just have to learn throttle modulation but there is still *plenty* of traction.

Iíve driven mines dry/wet/snow on the street, and dry/wet on track. At no time did it seem like a snappy monster or an accident waiting to happen. I just donít get these comments...
I also owned a 2015 and yes it definitely taught me good throttle modulation, which was kind of fun in its own right.

For me the issue was not absolute traction levels, but other factors - steering feel, traction control, and how it broke traction. Limited steering feel made it difficult to tell when it was going to break (had to learn other ways to sense). Traction control was super abrupt and would just cut power. And when it broke traction, it did not do it progressively.

I do think BMW has improved their traction control calibration.
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      10-18-2020, 11:55 AM   #56
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I can't believe I just read that "the M2 is a rebadged M235".

Some people around here
Coming from a 135i owner I'm not surprised.

Same goes for the people taking obvious disadvantages or inferior parts or design, and praising it based on the fact that they own it or are about to own one.
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      10-18-2020, 03:19 PM   #57
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CH is usually spot on. He is off the mark here a bit IMO. The non-linearity of throttle response is something I would think he would regard more in his bias.... just goes to show, opinions are like ________, everyone has one.
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      10-18-2020, 07:55 PM   #58
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So is the 2021 or later non-M 3 series going to get this big grill and the 2020 G30 is the only of the gen w a small grill, or does the non-M and the M diverge in grill style from this point? My guess is the first option, but I havent heard.
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      10-18-2020, 10:00 PM   #59
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Well that's certainly an opinion and you are entitled to it. For me personally, I don't generally find M3's to be elegant nor beautiful. I think they are aggressive looking cars.
Aggressive can be beautiful or garish. For example, I just watched the original Terminator today. Arnold looks aggressive and his body was perfect, or some would say beautiful, back in 1984. The symmetry of his muscles, chiseled jawline, and V-shaped body were aggressive and model-like. When his eye was enucleated and he had his skin torn off, he still looked aggressive, but hardly beautiful, more garish.

In terms of cars, the Dodge Viper ACR is wickedly aggressive and absolutely beautiful. In terms of M3, I thought the E92 was aggressive looking and to me, the most timeless and "beautiful" of the M3s. I don't believe the G8X is a timeless or a beautiful design at all. The "in your face" design as you described it will get old relatively soon. That said, I'm sure they are the most capable M3/4s ever made.

Last edited by thebmw; 10-18-2020 at 10:08 PM..
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      10-18-2020, 10:21 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
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Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
His is tuned so a torque monster and he likes a ragged edge. I agree S65 is way more my thing vs N54 in any state of tune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
Spoken like E92 or M2 owners who didn't get lucky enough to score a 1M. Approximately 1/100 reviewers agree with your opinion.

I agree that the S65 is better than an N54, but the 1M is way better than the sum of its parts. Looks are subjective, but very few cars a as comical/concept car looking than a 1M with its giant wheels and fender flares which pictures don't do it justice.

Ironically the F8X and M2 are BMW's attempts to mix the 1M DNA with the E9X DNA. While the F8X is a great car (I have one), the result is more of an E39 M5 vs a traditional M3.
That's not true at all. I'm an original E92 M3 owner, bought in 2010, and I had the option to purchase the 1M instead. But It's a parts bin car.

Regardless, the M2 is better than the 1M. Literally, it does everything better.

People spend gazillions on a used 1M as oppose to buying an M2. To each their own.
Weird because 1M has soul and M2 is a rebadged M235i .
Please explain that. The 1M uses the chassis parts of an E92. The M2 uses chassis parts from an F80.

The 1M has an N54. The M2 has an N55, and then even better, an S55.

Aside from hydraulic steering on the 1M, I see the same cars, with the M2 using improved parts.
Sure, the M235i was the original top trim for the 2 series which is an economy car at its core. Aka, steel everywhere, aka heavy.

In order to satisfy the M fans they came up with the M235i and took a 235i and gave it an M treatment but, you know, not really. But it got proprietary suspension.

The M2 is actuslly the same as the M235i except for the pistons and 2 suspension pieces which are aluminum on the M2 to lighten up the front of the car.

And the DCT.

But the DcT ages bad, the ZF8 never dies.

But an M3 is like 80% different than a 3 series. An M2? Badge engineering. More saying how good the M235i is really. Just get that.
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      10-19-2020, 12:01 AM   #61
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Sure, the M235i was the original top trim for the 2 series which is an economy car at its core. Aka, steel everywhere, aka heavy.

In order to satisfy the M fans they came up with the M235i and took a 235i and gave it an M treatment but, you know, not really. But it got proprietary suspension.

The M2 is actuslly the same as the M235i except for the pistons and 2 suspension pieces which are aluminum on the M2 to lighten up the front of the car.

And the DCT.

But the DcT ages bad, the ZF8 never dies.

But an M3 is like 80% different than a 3 series. An M2? Badge engineering. More saying how good the M235i is really. Just get that.
You've got to be smoking something with this post. There's literally nothing you said that is even evidently correct.

Did you just dream all this up in your head?
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      10-19-2020, 12:32 AM   #62
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The designer will tell his grandkids it was 2020 & bmw M was covid patient 0
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      10-19-2020, 02:32 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I have an advantage that I get to drive all these different cars every day.

The 1M feels special. The E90 M3 feels special. The F series M cars, while having great numbers, do not feel special. They are completely lacking in character, too rough, too twitchy, no feedback. The new G series cars are leaps and bounds better. They really feel like a modern interpretation of the older E series cars. They feel planted, solid. You can feel them take a set in the corner and grip. I would happily take a new 340 over any F M car. Don't talk to me about stats, go and drive one. I feel the current M2 is better in this regard, but still not as good as the 1M. The next gen M2 is the car I am anxiously awaiting. That may be the best drivers car BMW has made in a long time, or ever again.

If they do these new M cars right, they are going to be phenomenal. Too bad about the face.
What kind of driving? No disrespect, but I used to be a valet in my younger years and I got to drive a lot of "special" cars. I couldn't say it gave me an accurate representation of each car in their elements: at the limit. How does one define "special" anyway? Because I've driven an E30, E36 and a E43. I've tracked both an E90 and my F80's and while they both feel different, I wouldn't say that the E90 was more "special" than the F80. In fact, I'm almost every single category of driving dynamics beside the sound, the F80 pretty much w blew the E90 out of the water. I would say there was slightly
more steering feedback, but honestly it was a fractional difference... it's not like comparing my mom's downright disconnected '85 Buick to a manual steering E30. It's not like the F80 steering feels like your playing Outrun at the local arcade. No one is going to suddenly vomit when they turn the wheel or turn into shit drivers by the numbness. It's like a 15% improvement in steering feel is going to undo a boat load of power and torque in a lighter car that handles, brakes, and accelerates better? I find that hard to believe.
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      10-19-2020, 05:35 AM   #64
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So is the 2021 or later non-M 3 series going to get this big grill and the 2020 G30 is the only of the gen w a small grill, or does the non-M and the M diverge in grill style from this point? My guess is the first option, but I havent heard.
The non-M will will maintain the current small grille. M3 has ways had the front-end of the M4 (or M3 coupe).
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      10-19-2020, 05:39 AM   #65
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It just astounds me that literally everybody is a BMW M aficionado... except BMW.
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      10-19-2020, 06:26 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
His is tuned so a torque monster and he likes a ragged edge. I agree S65 is way more my thing vs N54 in any state of tune.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puuhapete View Post
Its always nice to listen to Chris, even I disagree strongly on 1M being more exciting than M3 E92. Driven both cars numerous times, I would choose the E92 over 1M every day.
The problem I've always had with these reviews is that they always want to tell you how fun on a car is on a back road or at that track, but that's missing half the point.

The 1M is worse in every regard when compared to the M2. You cannot say the same about the E92 over the F80.

That engine was the last special motor they made, and the chassis it was tied to was no slouch. It was also much more comfortable than the 1M, and better looking. And on the track, you really had to drive the E9X. it took a lot of driving to make it go fast, but that's what made it so much fun.
Spoken like E92 or M2 owners who didn't get lucky enough to score a 1M. Approximately 1/100 reviewers agree with your opinion.

I agree that the S65 is better than an N54, but the 1M is way better than the sum of its parts. Looks are subjective, but very few cars a as comical/concept car looking than a 1M with its giant wheels and fender flares which pictures don't do it justice.

Ironically the F8X and M2 are BMW's attempts to mix the 1M DNA with the E9X DNA. While the F8X is a great car (I have one), the result is more of an E39 M5 vs a traditional M3.
That's not true at all. I'm an original E92 M3 owner, bought in 2010, and I had the option to purchase the 1M instead. But It's a parts bin car.

Regardless, the M2 is better than the 1M. Literally, it does everything better.

People spend gazillions on a used 1M as oppose to buying an M2. To each their own.
Weird because 1M has soul and M2 is a rebadged M235i .
Please explain that. The 1M uses the chassis parts of an E92. The M2 uses chassis parts from an F80.

The 1M has an N54. The M2 has an N55, and then even better, an S55.

Aside from hydraulic steering on the 1M, I see the same cars, with the M2 using improved parts.
Sure, the M235i was the original top trim for the 2 series which is an economy car at its core. Aka, steel everywhere, aka heavy.

In order to satisfy the M fans they came up with the M235i and took a 235i and gave it an M treatment but, you know, not really. But it got proprietary suspension.

The M2 is actuslly the same as the M235i except for the pistons and 2 suspension pieces which are aluminum on the M2 to lighten up the front of the car.

And the DCT.

But the DcT ages bad, the ZF8 never dies.

But an M3 is like 80% different than a 3 series. An M2? Badge engineering. More saying how good the M235i is really. Just get that.
That's...not true at all. Especially if you take an M2 comp with its S55.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/6-k...-m2-and-m240i/
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