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      09-30-2020, 02:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
I don't ever remember seeing your SN on the F8x forums so I just assume you never owned one?
Nope, never owned an F80, I would have had an RS5 if I stayed in London but I quit my job and moved to the US to get married, so couldn't afford any car.

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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
BMW provided a subtly aggressive, distinguishable and fully capable platform in the F8Xs. Time will tell if the G platform will deliver the same but with what we know so far they may have missed that mark So I don't get where you are coming from,. Also saying DINKs like you were looking at Audi, Alpha and AMG are now looking at M3s makes no sense either? These brands have always been competitors, the only difference is Audi and Merc did away with MTs and Alpha is a bust...again. But people who bought F8s for sure cross shopped all of those brands and then some. You then go on to say the M3 is harder to distinguish from a regular 3 series but an M4 is easier? Yet you can identify most cars on the road regardless? That statement along with your other ones leads me to believe you really don't have an informed opinion on any of this.
The F80 to you looks subtly aggressive and distinguishable because you own one and are biased. I've been into cars for as long as I can remember, can quote the bhp, torque, price etc of nearly every interesting car that exists today off the top of my head. The F80 styling is bland and far too subtle, I'm not talking about the following LCI, CS etc that tried to rectify that, the standard M3 looks like a base 3 series with a few options added from a distance, that's what I'm comparing it to. Not saying the current RS and AMG models are easier to tell apart from the lesser models, but we'll see them follow BMW in altering that.
When I say "younger DINKs", I'm really meaning millennial DINKs, should have been clearer. The Gen X who bought the F80 when it released are now pushing into their early and late 40's and older, who at my age liked the subtle and blander looks of the F80 (and RS and AMG models), but the majority of people like me don't want that now; they want aggressive and something that stands out. Same reason they won't buy the RS5 or AMG offerings currently, but the previous buyers did, now BMW want the current buyers of AMG and Audi, who want tech, comfort, power and AWD, to buy this M3. I'm sure there are others my age and younger who still like the subtle looks and will opt for the Audi/Mercedes current offerings, but I guarantee they are in the minority, like the minority of people on this forum; if you think this forum resonates to the majority of people looking to buy this car you're very wrong. Social media comments from people who were never going to buy it anyway are irrelevant as well.

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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
I will agree with you on one thing, you are the absolute targeted audience for this car. Someone who wants a 'look at me in my $90k car' and that's fine for you. But for the rest of us its just not what we expected BMW to deliver. Whether I move into one I don't know but it certainly won't be because I want a car that will let everyone know that I have made it in this life.
I don't need a 'look at me I've made it' car, but if I'm spending $90k it's nice to know people don't mistake it for an m340i, yes. BMW know a lot of their potential buyers want that as well. The audience is people like me that don't care about manual, lightness and a basic interior and want power, tech, some comforts and usability with track ability and is fun, but isn't too expensive, isn't bland to look at and is, hopefully, comfortable and usable with the option of AWD, in other words potential RS and AMG buyers as well BMW M fans that wanted things the F80 didn't have that I've already gone over.
It sucks times have moved on for people like yourself, but it is what it is. The next M3 is going to 100% be a hybrid, and we'll all have to accept that as well when the times comes. The i8 makes me excited for that honestly.

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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Finally how do you know nothing comes close the G80? Because BMW and the paid youtuber shills told you so? You haven't driven one let alone sat in one.
Name a car that isn't on a 6+ year old platform (everything out right now), isn't about to be replaced with a hybrid (AMG) and doesn't cost more than $90k (RS5), with a good dealer network (Alfa), that can carry 4 people, comes with tech, is fast, looks awesome (subjective but the G80 is the nicest looking sedan on the market right now for me), can be tracked and also do a 4+ hour drive comfortably with 4 people in it? I don't need someone from YouTube to tell me nothing comes close to the G80 and I don't need to sit in one either, it's obvious.
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      09-30-2020, 02:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jcali86 View Post
Name a car that isn't on a 6+ year old platform (everything out right now), isn't about to be replaced with a hybrid (AMG) and doesn't cost more than $90k (RS5), with a good dealer network (Alfa), that can carry 4 people, comes with tech, is fast, looks awesome (subjective but the G80 is the nicest looking sedan on the market right now for me), can be tracked and also do a 4+ hour drive comfortably with 4 people in it? I don't need someone from YouTube to tell me nothing comes close to the G80 and I don't need to sit in one either, it's obvious.
Couldn't agree with you more.

The additional weight is sad but the G8X is likely to continue to be in a class of 1, like its predecessors were. A jack of all trades.
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      09-30-2020, 03:00 PM   #47
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Yeah good points but I am a car guy just like most people on here and have been for a long time. So when you say the only reason I can tell the difference is because I own it and am biased is 100% wrong. But that's water under the bridge.

At the end of the day I wish BMW wasn't so aggressive with their styling and tech and focused more on what gets enthusiasts hard rather than the general masses. Who needs a drift measurement tool?

I can't name any new cars because there aren't any but that doesn't equate the G80 to being a good or great car because it's 1 of 1.
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      09-30-2020, 03:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Yeah good points but I am a car guy just like most people on here and have been for a long time. So when you say the only reason I can tell the difference is because I own it and am biased is 100% wrong. But that's water under the bridge.

At the end of the day I wish BMW wasn't so aggressive with their styling and tech and focused more on what gets enthusiasts hard rather than the general masses. Who needs a drift measurement tool?

I can't name any new cars because there aren't any but that doesn't equate the G80 to being a good or great car because it's 1 of 1.
For sure, agree to disagree

I feel you, I get the negative response, I understand the annoyance of the weight etc. but we're moving past those times, the M2 is the car to buy if you want lighter and more fun on the track I guess?

I never said the G80 is good or great, I think it looks great, but that nothing comes close right now; which it doesn't. Need to drive it to know, it could be trash, but I doubt it.

Hopefully the CS or other future options tick more boxes for you, would love everyone to get what they want and be happy!
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      09-30-2020, 03:55 PM   #49
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M2 never really my style. I prefer fast four door sedans and always have.

BMW has to know no other cars tick all these boxes so they can pretty much do whatever they want because no other choices. Whether that translates into great sales who knows.
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      09-30-2020, 04:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
M2 never really my style. I prefer fast four door sedans and always have.

BMW has to know no other cars tick all these boxes so they can pretty much do whatever they want because no other choices. Whether that translates into great sales who knows.
We had it good in the E90 and F80 generations. It is wonderful to open the rear doors, load 4 slicks into the car and go to the track.

This is the issue with the M2 for me. The only thing worse than fitting 4 wide tires into a coupe (F82) is fitting them into a small coupe (F87).

It will certainly be interesting to see if the next gen M2 will be substantially lighter than the G8X. The current one was not.
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      10-01-2020, 02:14 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You should read up on the CS development. There was a fair bit of wind tunnel work by BMW to improve aerodynamic downforce on the CS, the front splitter, vented hood and rear gurney work in unison to generate net downforce and keep the overall front/rear downforce in balance.

The GT4 wing moves it up to another level, but you also need the massive front splitter to keep things in balance.
I've read all the technical development I can find in relation to the F82 chassis and although the CS aero creates downforce, it's less than the GTS and GT4. Components that aren't the full (GT4)package, have a "rice component" and are primarily purchased to enhance visual or like the MP exhaust that does nothing power wise, audio appeal. The majority of aero component sales aren't for downforce betterment at 200+ kmph, it's for visual appeal (because it looks good) don't you agree?

The CS gurney could have been better integrated into the boot lid tail than looking like a universal "rice shop" fitment plonked on the boot lid 2" short of it's rearward extremity. The "high kick" aftermarket versions of the MP spoiler that does integrate well into the boot lid tail would likely be as aerodynamically effective if not more so than the CS "rice like" gurney. Perhaps the G80/82 grill guy designed the CS gurney aesthetics?

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      10-01-2020, 05:48 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by RevNev View Post
I've read all the technical development I can find in relation to the F82 chassis and although the CS aero creates downforce, it's less than the GTS and GT4. Components that aren't the full (GT4)package, have a "rice component" and are primarily purchased to enhance visual or like the MP exhaust that does nothing power wise, audio appeal. The majority of aero component sales aren't for downforce betterment at 200+ kmph, it's for visual appeal (because it looks good) don't you agree?

The CS gurney could have been better integrated into the boot lid tail than looking like a universal "rice shop" fitment plonked on the boot lid 2" short of it's rearward extremity. The "high kick" aftermarket versions of the MP spoiler that does integrate well into the boot lid tail would likely be as aerodynamically effective if not more so than the CS "rice like" gurney. Perhaps the G80/82 grill guy designed the CS gurney aesthetics?
Seems like you have some learning to do regarding aerodynamics...
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      10-01-2020, 06:25 AM   #53
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Car manufactures have a conundrum. People want state of the art computers, heads up displays, Apple car play, heated and cooled seats, a 500hp motor, they want 30mpg, want it to rumble like a V8, corner like it's on rails, do an 11 second quarter mile, and go 0-60 in like 2.9 seconds. They want to haul their kids around in it, have enough trunk space for their stuff, and they want the car to have huge brakes and weigh 3200 lbs. Oh and it should cost less than $85k.

The marketing people at BMW M know what people want. They are selling more M cars than ever before. They don't care about rarity or exclusivity, they want to move units at the highest profit possible.

I get that some of you don't like the direction, so maybe it's time to move away from the brand. Problem is, most manufacturers are doing similar things.
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      10-01-2020, 06:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by SMGCFP View Post
Car manufactures have a conundrum. People want state of the art computers, heads up displays, Apple car play, heated and cooled seats, a 500hp motor, they want 30mpg, want it to rumble like a V8, corner like it's on rails, do an 11 second quarter mile, and go 0-60 in like 2.9 seconds. They want to haul their kids around in it, have enough trunk space for their stuff, and they want the car to have huge brakes and weigh 3200 lbs. Oh and it should cost less than $85k.

The marketing people at BMW M know what people want. They are selling more M cars than ever before. They don't care about rarity or exclusivity, they want to move units at the highest profit possible.

I get that some of you don't like the direction, so maybe it's time to move away from the brand. Problem is, most manufacturers are doing similar things.
Ending of an era I guess.
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      10-01-2020, 08:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
Ending of an era I guess.
Not at all. I've been on car forums since the E46 M3 days and people have been complaining about the exact same thing for decades.

For me, the E92 M3 Concept car was love at first sight, but the car got absolutely wrecked by a lot of owners for not being an I6, too heavy, ricer hood and looking like a Honda Civic.

The F8x M3/4 comes out and now the complaints are that it's EPS instead of hydraulic steering system, not to mention all M's should be NA, the car sounds like a cow, M4 rear fenders are horrible, power dome doesn't even do anything blah blah blah.

Let me ask you guys this. Let's say the G generation M cars are the last to offer a manual trans option and the next ones are PHEVs and automatic only, you're going to tell me the values of these G80s would not remain hilariously high? Give it 15 years, EAG will be selling low mileage G80's with a 6MT, carbon buckets, maybe carbon ceramics for Porsche GT3 money.

The sky has been falling since end of production for the E30 M3
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      10-01-2020, 08:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMGCFP View Post
Car manufactures have a conundrum. People want state of the art computers, heads up displays, Apple car play, heated and cooled seats, a 500hp motor, they want 30mpg, want it to rumble like a V8, corner like it's on rails, do an 11 second quarter mile, and go 0-60 in like 2.9 seconds. They want to haul their kids around in it, have enough trunk space for their stuff, and they want the car to have huge brakes and weigh 3200 lbs. Oh and it should cost less than $85k.

The marketing people at BMW M know what people want. They are selling more M cars than ever before. They don't care about rarity or exclusivity, they want to move units at the highest profit possible.

I get that some of you don't like the direction, so maybe it's time to move away from the brand. Problem is, most manufacturers are doing similar things.
Absolutely.

There is so much outrage about the weight but so many people are asking for AWD (~200lb), hybrid systems (+lots of lb) etc.
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      10-01-2020, 08:15 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Not at all. I've been on car forums since the E46 M3 days and people have been complaining about the exact same thing for decades.

For me, the E92 M3 Concept car was love at first sight, but the car got absolutely wrecked by a lot of owners for not being an I6, too heavy, ricer hood and looking like a Honda Civic.

The F8x M3/4 comes out and now the complaints are that it's EPS instead of hydraulic steering system, not to mention all M's should be NA, the car sounds like a cow, M4 rear fenders are horrible, power dome doesn't even do anything blah blah blah.

Let me ask you guys this. Let's say the G generation M cars are the last to offer a manual trans option and the next ones are PHEVs and automatic only, you're going to tell me the values of these G80s would not remain hilariously high? Give it 15 years, EAG will be selling low mileage G80's with a 6MT, carbon buckets, maybe carbon ceramics for Porsche GT3 money.

The sky has been falling since end of production for the E30 M3
Yes, for sure. I've seen all the crying and whining for so many generations that now I'm like meh.

I'm sure the G will be the last with 6MT and a dinosaur-based drivetrain. I am completely sure the last 6MTs that are nicely specced will be worth a lot in the future.
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      10-01-2020, 08:18 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMGCFP View Post
Car manufactures have a conundrum. People want state of the art computers, heads up displays, Apple car play, heated and cooled seats, a 500hp motor, they want 30mpg, want it to rumble like a V8, corner like it's on rails, do an 11 second quarter mile, and go 0-60 in like 2.9 seconds. They want to haul their kids around in it, have enough trunk space for their stuff, and they want the car to have huge brakes and weigh 3200 lbs. Oh and it should cost less than $85k.

The marketing people at BMW M know what people want. They are selling more M cars than ever before. They don't care about rarity or exclusivity, they want to move units at the highest profit possible.

I get that some of you don't like the direction, so maybe it's time to move away from the brand. Problem is, most manufacturers are doing similar things.
Yup, and that's exactly what I'll do. I am still sad that I need to walk away from something that suited my needs so well for so many years though...
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      10-01-2020, 08:45 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMGCFP View Post
Car manufactures have a conundrum. People want state of the art computers, heads up displays, Apple car play, heated and cooled seats, a 500hp motor, they want 30mpg, want it to rumble like a V8, corner like it's on rails, do an 11 second quarter mile, and go 0-60 in like 2.9 seconds. They want to haul their kids around in it, have enough trunk space for their stuff, and they want the car to have huge brakes and weigh 3200 lbs. Oh and it should cost less than $85k.

The marketing people at BMW M know what people want. They are selling more M cars than ever before. They don't care about rarity or exclusivity, they want to move units at the highest profit possible.

I get that some of you don't like the direction, so maybe it's time to move away from the brand. Problem is, most manufacturers are doing similar things.
Yup. That's pretty much it. BMW has been sticking the 'M' badge on just about everything. In recent years even power and capability has approached that of the true M cars! I don't want an M3 that's just a suped-up M340! I want it to be different. They sure managed to do that with these (at least from the appearance aspect)! When I first saw the renders I said to myself... OMG, no way... they won't look like that! Sure enough... here we are! I may not be drooling over that grill either, but it won't prevent me from getting one.

If BMW maintains the status quo they know sales will fall. The new generation of owners coming into M territory seem to want the "Transformers" like appearance... aggressive and perhaps a bit over the top. BMW's people aren't dopes. It's about sales and it sounds like customers are already lining up for this... regardless of all the negative comments here. They know they'll piss of some purists and they could care less... they want to attract the new audience, and that won't include all of us here nor do they care what media reviewers say either! I've had two F80's over six years and I rarely saw other F80's in my area. I have a feeling we'll see many more of these running around 5 years from now. So either you're going to like it or not and BMW is betting many more will than won't!
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      10-01-2020, 10:39 AM   #60
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Not at all. I've been on car forums since the E46 M3 days and people have been complaining about the exact same thing for decades.
Not the same because 6MTs were offered in all those cars with the same power between the manual and SMG/DCTs. When has an M ever had less power output based on what transmission it came with? So yes its an end of an era to M cars being offered with equal power outputs across both manual and whatever AT/DCT/SMG they are offering.

Also like jcali said there are no other 4 door manual sedans out there anymore, and soon there will be none when only a handful of people buy the 'pure' G8xs. So yes again a most likely end to that era as well. And regardless of what price they may or may not command 20 years from now it doesn't make a damn bit of difference today in whether BMW or anyone makes another manual sports car that can do it all.
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      10-01-2020, 03:41 PM   #61
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At least on the M4, the styling is coming from the i4 concept car and creating a niche for the new EV push, ...
Actually think this is part of the reasoning. BMW's future EV's will have large grills. They are attempting to use their iconic car to push the styling into mainstream prior to EV launches.
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      10-06-2020, 11:10 PM   #62
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As a long time fan (and owner) of BMWs, I’m really sad to see that BMW is now diluting the once ///Motorsports division inspired segment with a jack-of-all-trades cars. See any of the newer ///M cars, especially the G8x and the land yatchs M5 and M8. So much cringe.

It hurts me even more that AMG is still building cars inspired my their Motorsports division. See the new GT-Black series. So much drool!
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      10-07-2020, 05:37 AM   #63
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It seems that BMW is getting it all wrong. 5 series F10 then 3 series getting worse handling. M5 F90 (non hydraulic steering) then possibly the M3/M4 G80/G90 worse handling. Steering has been going downhill with move to electronic.

They added the 48v generator to the M440i and it seems like it's worse than the M340i without the generator https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

I don't understand why but it seems like the weight was kept in check for the F 3 series including even the F90, but has gone up substantially in the G 3 series? Is it really necessary to add a 70 plus lb generator in the M340i M440i??
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      10-08-2020, 07:00 AM   #64
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Is it really necessary to add a 70 plus lb generator in the M340i M440i??
Yes, emmissions regulations make this necessary. Belive me, BMW wouldn't put them in the car if they were not forced to do it. That's the one thing BMW isn't at fault.

(Regardless of that, once the second generation of MH arrive, I think they offer more advantages than disadvantages, but thats OT. Second generation will have ~25kW/33hp of power and ~300Nm of torque available from 0rpm, that will definitely improve the acceleration)
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      10-08-2020, 08:09 AM   #65
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It seems that BMW is getting it all wrong. 5 series F10 then 3 series getting worse handling. M5 F90 (non hydraulic steering) then possibly the M3/M4 G80/G90 worse handling. Steering has been going downhill with move to electronic.

They added the 48v generator to the M440i and it seems like it's worse than the M340i without the generator https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

I don't understand why but it seems like the weight was kept in check for the F 3 series including even the F90, but has gone up substantially in the G 3 series? Is it really necessary to add a 70 plus lb generator in the M340i M440i??
I saw that C&D M440i review and for whatever reason, they pulled it down. It was showing a 3.5 sec 0-60 time... with the 382 HP 3.0 six engine. The December review of the M340i showed 3.8 seconds and 1/4 mi at 12.3. That's concerning when you take a 440 and it's faster than the times being shown for the G8x in either regular or Comp versions! It shouldn't even be a contest between the two. So I'll be really curious to see some true testing with these new M's because if those 3.5 second times for the M440 are true, that's faster than BMW's claimed times for these G8x's! Even if the actual test times prove to be mid-3 seconds, the gain in performance is next to nothing over these "M" versions of the 3 and 4 series... pathetic.
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      10-08-2020, 08:41 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Rick955 View Post
I saw that C&D M440i review and for whatever reason, they pulled it down. It was showing a 3.5 sec 0-60 time... with the 382 HP 3.0 six engine. The December review of the M340i showed 3.8 seconds and 1/4 mi at 12.3. That's concerning when you take a 440 and it's faster than the times being shown for the G8x in either regular or Comp versions! It shouldn't even be a contest between the two. So I'll be really curious to see some true testing with these new M's because if those 3.5 second times for the M440 are true, that's faster than BMW's claimed times for these G8x's! Even if the actual test times prove to be mid-3 seconds, the gain in performance is next to nothing over these "M" versions of the 3 and 4 series... pathetic.
Again: RWD vs AWD

The folks that buy the RWD versions of the G8X are not after 0-60mph times.
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