[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by tna3

Actually the options pricing is very straightforward on the GTS 4.0 (unlike other models). All you need is the $3500 premium package, everything else is fluff. That's about $93K, less than the tested price of the C&D G82 in this test. The problem is you can't find GTS 4.0s especially manuals. Even to order they are backed up at least 6 months because of vendor problems for engine connector rods. Current owners are getting new engines first.

Time to look at the GTS 4.0 to see if I could live with it.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

Fair enough. C&D mentions the GT4 here, but I've heard them heap similar praise on the 718 GTS 4.0. Moving from a loaded M4 up to a basic GTS 4.0 wouldn't be much of a financial jump.

I've checked it out, around here you would have a little more basic 4.0 GTS to stay close to the G82 price.

The thing is if you use the 718 like a daily 4 seater couper like the M2 or M4 you will have to make compromises and if you use the M2 or M4 like the 718 was designed for (sports car), they are never going to be has good as the 718.

If you check prices and metrics yes they are close but we are not robots and we all have different needs, exceptations and tolerances.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by PLF69

I've checked it out, around here you would have a little more basic 4.0 GTS to stay close to the G82 price.

The thing is if you use the 718 like a daily 4 seater couper like the M2 or M4 you will have to make compromises and if you use the M2 or M4 like the 718 was designed for (sports car), they are never going to be has good as the 718.

If you check prices and metrics yes they are close but we are not robots and we all have different needs, exceptations and tolerances.

Agreed.

[SYT_Shadow]

I want to propose that the Nobel prize in mathematics goes to the genius that has discovered that if you take car A and option the shit out of it, eventually its cost is quite similar to car B with zero options.

Amazing.

[fleetfoot]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I want to propose that the Nobel prize in mathematics goes to the genius that has discovered that if you take car A and option the shit out of it, eventually it is quite similar to car B with zero options.

Amazing.

But what about the person who figured out you could buy 3.5 Mazda Miatas for the same price as one loaded M4? My Nobel vote goes to that individual.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

But what about the person who figured out you could buy 3.5 Mazda Miatas for the same price as one loaded M4? My Nobel vote goes to that individual.

Imagine how much beer you could buy instead of either option!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I want to propose that the Nobel prize in mathematics goes to the genius that has discovered that if you take car A and option the shit out of it, eventually it is quite similar to car B with zero options.

Amazing.

This is one reason I think the Porsche isn't really a real world apples-to-apples comparison in terms of price.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

2015 M4 6MT as tested by C&D for comparison. Even in the 6MT tune, the S58 packs some serious punch.

Surprisingly not much quicker above 100 mph. F82 - 3.4 seconds to go 100-117 while the G80 was 3.7 seconds to go 100-121.

1.8 seconds faster from 100-150 mph though.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by trey100

Surprisingly not much quicker above 100 mph. F82 - 3.4 seconds to go 100-117 while the G80 was 3.7 seconds to go 100-121.

1.8 seconds faster from 100-150 mph though.

That's 5 mph/s for the F82 and 5.7mph/s for the G82, meaning that the G82 has ~14% better acceleration. That is quite meaningful and in line with the 100-150mph advantage. Numbers in isolation can be misleading...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's 5 mph/s for the F82 and 5.7mph/s for the G82, meaning that the G82 has ~14% better acceleration. That is quite meaningful and in line with the 100-150mph advantage. Numbers in isolation can be misleading...

I love when you post this data driven shit. Well done, Sir! Well done!

[filostrato]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Time to look at the GTS 4.0 to see if I could live with it.

Having gone from a Cayman S -> G80 I'd say it's pretty hard to compare these two despite the similarities in price and performance. The p-car, mid engine driving experience is amazing and according to those that know the 4.0 only makes it better. Having two trunks and adaptive suspension, it actually it work well as a daily driver

I now need back seats due to a growing family and am very happy with the versatility of the M3. But if practicality isn't a concern, GTS 4.0 all day...

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Comparing the C&D G82 results to the F82, despite the top end advantages the 5-60 time is similar and top gear acceleration is actually worse in the G82. This must be a function of the larger turbos and tuning of the S58 compared to S55.

Most certainly it's because of different gear ratio between MT and Auto.

Tuning alone has little to do with turbo lag. It's laggy peaking at 24psi for the competition so is it at 19psi with the base.

In-gear acceleration figure has always been irrelevant without the gear ratio disclosed AND the benchmark to compare to. Otherwise it's, in fact, impractical, meaningless and very often misleading for anyone who reads it. Just like people here "automatically" compare it to automatic model to make conclusion.

C&D keep publishing these irrelevant and flawed data for years. Someone need to write them back in the "backfire section". I'm a foreigner they don't listen to LoL

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by filostrato

Having gone from a Cayman S -> G80 I'd say it's pretty hard to compare these two despite the similarities in price and performance. The p-car, mid engine driving experience is amazing and according to those that know the 4.0 only makes it better. Having two trunks and adaptive suspension, it actually it work well as a daily driver

I now need back seats due to a growing family and am very happy with the versatility of the M3. But if practicality isn't a concern, GTS 4.0 all day...

What did you pay for your Cayman S? What would somebody pay for a GTS 4.0?

[filostrato]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

What did you pay for your Cayman S? What would somebody pay for a GTS 4.0?

Low 80's for the S with pretty restrained options (per Porsche standards)

GTS 4.0 starts around 90K, but that's MSRP and I didn't get to the point of hard numbers. The one conversation I had with a dealer didn't sound like they were trying to gouge customers on the Cayman. More focused on the big ticket cars I guess

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by filostrato

Low 80's for the S with pretty restrained options (per Porsche standards)

GTS 4.0 starts around 90K, but that's MSRP and I didn't get to the point of hard numbers. The one conversation I had with a dealer didn't sound like they were trying to gouge customers on the Cayman. More focused on the big ticket cars I guess

Thanks for that. I'll roll by Porsche and check out the GTS.

[NISFAN]

Geeez, looks like either you guys in the US get raked over by Porsche or we in the UK get raked over by BMW. The GTS 4.0 is much cheaper in the UK than M4C. We don't get the non C BMW's here.

In fact over here the GT4 is roughly priced equal to M4C.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Geeez, looks like either you guys in the US get raked over by Porsche or we in the UK get raked over by BMW. The GTS 4.0 is much cheaper in the UK than M4C. We don't get the non C BMW's here.

In fact over here the GT4 is roughly priced equal to M4C.

I actually also considered the GT4, it is an awesome car and a Track Monster.
But the daily practicallity is just minus 1000 compared to the G80....and as I heard from friends who drives Porsche the car costs a lot more in maintaining than the BMW.
So I went for the G80.

But yes, I aggree, the price is pretty high.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Most certainly it's because of different gear ratio between MT and Auto.

Tuning alone has little to do with turbo lag. It's laggy peaking at 24psi for the competition so is it at 19psi with the base.

In-gear acceleration figure has always been irrelevant without the gear ratio disclosed AND the benchmark to compare to. Otherwise it's, in fact, impractical, meaningless and very often misleading for anyone who reads it. Just like people here "automatically" compare it to automatic model to make conclusion.

C&D keep publishing these irrelevant and flawed data for years. Someone need to write them back in the "backfire section". I'm a foreigner they don't listen to LoL

The C&D results are both for 6MT which share the exact same gear ratios, so it allows for a direct comparison of the S55 and S58 characters.

The S58 has a higher boost threshold than the S55, this is known fact, and it is clearly reflected in those acceleration numbers.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The C&D results are both for 6MT which share the exact same gear ratios, so it allows for a direct comparison of the S55 and S58 characters.

The S58 has a higher boost threshold than the S55, this is known fact, and it is clearly reflected in those acceleration numbers.

excuse my dumb question:

what is a boost threshold?

the thing up until the power really starts to kick in? (on my G80 at about 3k RPM)

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

excuse my dumb question:

what is a boost threshold?

the thing up until the power really starts to kick in? (on my G80 at about 3k RPM)

Correct.

Folks often confuse turbo lag and boost threshold.

Boost threshold is the rpm point at which the engine is able to supply sufficient exhaust gases for the turbo to build positive intake pressure.

Turbo Lag is the delay between the request for power and the delivery of that power when the engine is above the boost threshold.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Correct.

Folks often confuse turbo lag and boost threshold.

Boost threshold is the rpm point at which the engine is able to supply sufficient exhaust gases for the turbo to build positive intake pressure.

Turbo Lag is the delay between the request for power and the delivery of that power when the engine is above the boost threshold.

copy !

Thanks for the very clear explenation ! Now I understand it (finally )

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

copy !

Thanks for the very clear explenation ! Now I understand it (finally )

Always better to ask for clarification than posting about stuff you don't understand 👍