[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by akkando

Also a lot of stuff is set it and forget it. So even if you feel there are too many options, it's only a problem once. Probably more annoying when you get to drive new cars for free constantly, but that is not relevant to consumers.

Agreed!

[nachob]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The review is okay but Quiroga spends a few paragraphs whining about too many vehicle settings, pining for the days when an M car came with a single suspension and steering setting. I'm starting to get really tired of reviewers that spend a good portion of the review reminiscing about the old days as that's not what I'm reading the review for. You don't see cell phone reviewers pining for the simplicity of old rotary dial telephones and it's such a shame that automobile journalists lack a degree of professionalism to review the product as-is and if they don't like all the settings on today's car to make a separate column about it.

Wow I'm not shocked by an SUV driver saying something so ignorant but that 15 so far have signed and "appreciate" this nonesense. You don't care because there is a faction that is into fluff and and gadgetry over driving focus but whatever iota of involvement remaining is due to guys like Quiroga that have some influence to make BMW think twice about more stupification of cars. If it weren't for the press and some vocal enthusiasts you would be driving an 8000 lb behemoth with velour interior, bidet in the seat, steering with a nintendo Joystick and an LCD display instead of the windshield. So show some appreciation for those that try to maintain a shred of respectability to the M badge.

[Bumpinjeep]

Almost identical to the M2CS straight line numbers. Pretty sweet.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by nachob

Wow I'm not shocked by an SUV driver saying something so ignorant but that 15 so far have signed and "appreciate" this nonesense. You don't care because there is a faction that is into fluff and and gadgetry over driving focus but whatever iota of involvement remaining is due to guys like Quiroga that have some influence to make BMW think twice about more stupification of cars. If it weren't for the press and some vocal enthusiasts you would be driving an 8000 lb behemoth with velour interior, bidet in the seat, steering with a nintendo Joystick and an LCD display instead of the windshield. So show some appreciation for those that try to maintain a shred of respectability to the M badge.

Wow! Great post. You are so right. I suppose I shouldn't even be allowed to post here being a lowly SUV driver. If it makes you feel better my last vehicle was an M2 and a manual transmission one at that. Yes I agree we owe the press everything we have in life as they know best and are never wrong. I sincerely apologize for my ignorance and hope I did not offend you and the great crusaders of the automobile.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Almost identical to the M2CS straight line numbers. Pretty sweet.

Agreed, and just a tick behind a 992 C2S manual tested by C&D last year.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ual-enjoyment/

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Agreed, and just a tick behind a 992 C2S manual tested by C&D last year.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ual-enjoyment/

Not bad! Not bad at all.

[SteveinArizona]

I have a problem with reviewers who test using 93 octane gasoline. For most of the western part of the country, we can't get 93 octane, only 91. Since almost half the population of the country lives in 91 octane areas, reviewers should test with that fuel.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I have a problem with reviewers who test using 93 octane gasoline. For most of the western part of the country, we can't get 93 octane, only 91. Since almost half the population of the country lives in 91 octane areas, reviewers should test with that fuel.

This review was performed in California so I assume 91 octane was in the car for this review. I see they list 93 octane under capacity but I don't know if that's just the manufacturer recommended fuel they are stating. Not sure where they would get 93 octane from in California but maybe locals would know.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Not bad! Not bad at all.

You, of all people should not be looking at that. You have to show the proper example to the rest of your community. Unless you want to race me and don't mind dust on your windshield. He he he... ♥

[Alpha97]

Originally Posted by CachacoF80

I don't think you can separate completely looks and machine. Appreciate that looks are subjective and you may be in the minority that wants to read only about the machine. But reviewers have to cater to the "average" online or print readers.

Personally, the G8X could have Bugatti performance but I could not pull the trigger based on looks.

Agree for the most part.
I was very close to getting an F80 two years ago but passed based on it's looks.
My G80 should be here within a month.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

You, of all people should not be looking at that. You have to show the proper example to the rest of your community. Unless you want to race me and don't mind dust on your windshield. He he he... [COLOR="Red"]♥[/COLOR]

I'll race you. I mean.....what does the winner get?!?!

[fleetfoot]

My takeaway from reading the full article was that at this price point you're getting close to a Porsche 718 GT4 (which they drove right after the M4), and for that price the GT4 is a more enjoyable experience with a better executed vision.

Major gripes for the M4 were:
-"gravelly" intake noise
-"disingenuous" speaker engine sounds
-a bunch of "gimmicky" settings that don't accomplish anything other than making drivers feel special
-steering that's "devoid of feedback"
-weight comparable to an old M6
-leg separators that will inspire eye rolls from real car people
-a digital tach that's hard to read

But C&D positively calls out the improved power to weight, better tires, a "lovely" manual transmission, and seats that hold you tightly. Overall they feel like it's a good daily driver AND track car, but doesn't have the focus and purity of older models. I think rottentomatoes would probably call this review a "splat".

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

My takeaway from reading the full article was that at this price point you're getting close to a Porsche 718 GT4 (which they drove right after the M4), and for that price the GT4 is a more enjoyable experience with a better executed vision.

Major gripes for the M4 were:
-"gravelly" intake noise
-"disingenuous" speaker engine sounds
-a bunch of "gimmicky" settings that don't accomplish anything other than making drivers feel special
-steering that's "devoid of feedback"
-weight comparable to an old M6
-leg separators that will inspire eye rolls from real car people
-a digital tach that's hard to read

But C&D positively calls out the improved power to weight, better tires, a "lovely" manual transmission, and seats that hold you tightly. Overall they feel like it's a good daily driver AND track car, but doesn't have the focus and purity of older models. I think rottentomatoes would probably call this review a "splat".

Half the points you made were subjective and the other half apply to the F80.

But yeah - if you're shopping for a pure sports car that doesn't need to make any compromises there is no reason to look at any M3 since the E46.

The purpose of M cars is to be the perfect dual purpose machine.

[Fugly M3]

Mephisto which tires? PS4S, I assume?

[fleetfoot]

Originally Posted by dialogical

Half the points you made were subjective and the other half apply to the F80.

But yeah - if you're shopping for a pure sports car that doesn't need to make any compromises there is no reason to look at any M3 since the E46.

The purpose of M cars is to be the perfect dual purpose machine.

Totally agree those are the subjective aspects of the car, but I'd argue that the subjectives are mostly what make cars great. If you read something like R&T's The Search for the Greatest Sports Car of All Time, they spend very little time talking about the objective measurements, and more about what they feel when driving the cars. I think numbers may win the day, but feelings stand the test of time. If the M4 is only good because of its numbers, I think it's less likely to become a classic.

And if objective numbers like 0-60/grip are most important and you want a dual-purpose vehicle, the Corvette (or Caddy Blackwing) is going to win almost every time

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

Totally agree those are the subjective aspects of the car, but I'd argue that the subjectives are mostly what make cars great. If you read something like R&T's The Search for the Greatest Sports Car of All Time, they spend very little time talking about the objective measurements, and more about what they feel when driving the cars. I think numbers may win the day, but feelings stand the test of time. If the M4 is only good because of it's numbers, I think it's less likely to become a classic.

And if objective numbers like 0-60/grip are most important and you want a dual-purpose vehicle, the Corvette (or Caddy Blackwing) is going to win almost every time

Heard this all before. People said the same things about the F80.

"Turbos ruin the engine"
"The exhaust sounds like a lawnmower"
"The steering has no feel"
"It's a competent car but all the emotion is gone"

The last great M car is whatever generation came out last.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

Mephisto which tires? PS4S, I assume?

Yes, it was the PS4S

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

My takeaway from reading the full article was that at this price point you're getting close to a Porsche 718 GT4 (which they drove right after the M4), and for that price the GT4 is a more enjoyable experience with a better executed vision.

Major gripes for the M4 were:
-"gravelly" intake noise
-"disingenuous" speaker engine sounds
-a bunch of "gimmicky" settings that don't accomplish anything other than making drivers feel special
-steering that's "devoid of feedback"
-weight comparable to an old M6
-leg separators that will inspire eye rolls from real car people
-a digital tach that's hard to read

But C&D positively calls out the improved power to weight, better tires, a "lovely" manual transmission, and seats that hold you tightly. Overall they feel like it's a good daily driver AND track car, but doesn't have the focus and purity of older models. I think rottentomatoes would probably call this review a "splat".

Yes & no. Option out that GT4 similarly, and it's an entirely different ball game.

[fleetfoot]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes & no. Option out that GT4 similarly, and it's an entirely different ball game.

Fair enough. C&D mentions the GT4 here, but I've heard them heap similar praise on the 718 GTS 4.0. Moving from a loaded M4 up to a basic GTS 4.0 wouldn't be much of a financial jump.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'll race you. I mean.....what does the winner get?!?!

I'll let you buy me dinner but only if you remember my fav food and drink. Hope you were paying attention.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

I'll let you buy me dinner but only if you remember my fav food and drink. Hope you were paying attention.

[begins a frantic search through all of L.J.'s posts while listening to the G.I. Joe theme song]

[tna3]

Originally Posted by fleetfoot

Fair enough. C&D mentions the GT4 here, but I've heard them heap similar praise on the 718 GTS 4.0. Moving from a loaded M4 up to a basic GTS 4.0 wouldn't be much of a financial jump.

Actually the options pricing is very straightforward on the GTS 4.0 (unlike other models). All you need is the $3500 premium package, everything else is fluff. That's about $93K, less than the tested price of the C&D G82 in this test. The problem is you can't find GTS 4.0s especially manuals. Even to order they are backed up at least 6 months because of vendor problems for engine connector rods. Current owners are getting new engines first.