[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by EXE46

The IS500 is built to compete with the M340 and is not even available for sale yet. GSF is not an M3 substitute either plus it's discontinued and was a sales failure. RCF has been around for ages and still hasn't been a sales success or better performer than an M4. Furthermore, both the GSF/RCF are superior to the upcoming IS500 and if those cars were not considered M3/M4 competitors how would an IS500 be a possible contender.

You are getting the 472 hp V8 in a smaller package than the GS-F, and chances are will be lighter than the RC-F. The RC-F chassis is made from 3 different chassis. GS front, IS-C mid, and IS rear. Which made it heavy and lagged behind the F8X.
The chances are that IS500 on price will compete against the M340i (we don’t know the pricing yet, only estimates) It’s pretty much an anomaly. It may only be limited for 1 or 2 years as well. It’s not a full fat IS-F (which they hinted will be coming up), and it’s not a true competitor for the M340i in terms of hp. Basically it’s the swan song for the 5 liter NA V8.
I listed the GS-F not as a M3 competitor, but as something with 4 doors. It’s discontinued yes, and was a sales failure, which means it’s rarer, more unique, and you can probably pick one up for good amount less than when it was new.
Again, I was throwing out there. This is a BMW M3/M4 forum, I know my crowd

[PLF69]

Thanks Admins for sucking this discussion out of the other thread.

I totally respect that IS V8 and all other Lexus products, I find them really nice cars, reliable, good sound and quality finish etc.

The part you seem to not understand is Lexus cars are just NOT great cars on track, in most of them you can't even defeat de safety systems completely, there alignment settings, tire size and models are sub-optimal for repeated performance driving, there "track" models are a real joke.

I'm not dissing on Lexus cars, it's just the way they are designed and it's totally fine but for me personally I cannot compare them for my usage. If Audi would build a more capable/fun on track 4-seater car I would be on a Audi forum right now, I have no allegiance to brands, If Lexus would be doing it, I'd be hanging at the dealer looking to get one. Unfortunately BMW makes the best dual-duty kind of luxury performance usable track capable cars right now.

[av.7447]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Here is my wife's Lexus IS.

I have to say Lexus executes the big grille far better than the BMW.

Everyone loves it.

Hmmm... is it just me or does this Toyota look like it was just in an accident? 🤔

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here we are...Turbo, Auto, AWD, 4000 lbs

R.I.P. ///M Division

What M car are you talking about at 4000 lbs? Not the G8x. Isn't a base V6 IS in the 3750 lb range? Weird thread.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Vmaxx

I still don’t like, and I know plenty of people who think Lexus designed the worst front end ever made, but to each their own. IMO Lexus has lost their way even worse than BMW. I owned an ISF which was an amazing car but you couldn’t pay me to own the generation that followed with the spindle grille. Even the interior went two steps backwards with Lexus.

Disagree.

The original and first IS was based on the Toyota Altezza that was performance oriented and they tried to target the E46. The 2nd generation moved away from the Altezza but up the ante and that was the first IS-F, and they did a pretty good job as you said. The 3rd and current generation reversed course back more towards Lexus' comfort zone of luxury over driver focus & performance.

So they've not lost their ways but held to their ways, the 1st & 2nd gen IS being exceptions. My criticism of Toyota is they've been sitting on their laurels, too conservative. But they've had success and now the biggest car company (by sales volume) in the world. Lexus sold more cars/suvs than Mercedes in 2020 in the US.

On the contrary, BMW has lost their way, catering less towards driver enthusiast focus. Arguably, it's now more that BMW is becoming more Lexus-like than the other way around.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Disagree.

The original and first IS was based on the Toyota Altezza that was performance oriented and they tried to target the E46. The 2nd generation moved away from the Altezza but up the ante and that was the first IS-F, and they did a pretty good job as you said. The 3rd and current generation reversed course back more towards Lexus' comfort zone of luxury over driver focus & performance.

So they've not lost their ways but held to their ways, the 1st & 2nd gen IS being exceptions. My criticism of Toyota is they've been sitting on their laurels, too conservative. But they've had success and now the biggest car company (by sales volume) in the world. Lexus sold more cars/suvs than Mercedes in 2020 in the US.

On the contrary, BMW has lost their way, catering less towards driver enthusiast focus. Arguably, it's now more that BMW is becoming more Lexus-like than the other way around.

Lexus has lost their way with that hideously ugly grille.

BMW has lost their way to the enthusiast owners as it has become more of a brand for the people and soccer moms and people that want the Roundel, but only want to pay $35,000. I hate it from an enthusiast standpoint but from a business standpoint of the company making money I can't argue it.

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here we are...Turbo, Auto, AWD, 4000 lbs

R.I.P. ///M Division

Says who? No manual, no sale. .

[F85MTuNED]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

What M car are you talking about at 4000 lbs? Not the G8x. Isn't a base V6 IS in the 3750 lb range? Weird thread.

Very weird and pointless...

There isn't a Fu**ing thing Lexus / Toyota can build that could compete with anything ///M related unless BMW themself helps them with it.

/ thread 😂

[OSee]

Originally Posted by snareman

Lexus has lost their way with that hideously ugly grille.

BMW has lost their way to the enthusiast owners as it has become more of a brand for the people and soccer moms and people that want the Roundel, but only want to pay $35,000.

Up until then BMW/MB/Audi kept most of their down market models and variants (S350 is a great example) out of the U.S. market. Now, they are not only bringing them in, but they are also creating new models specifically to target the badge audience.

The MB CLA is a great example of that. The first generation of that car was cheaply made and looked like it came straight out of a market research group session.

[Germanauto]

Lol this is a classic Bimmerpost thread. Insults, trolling, the whole nine yards from both ends. Love it.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by OSee

Up until then BMW/MB/Audi kept most of their down market models and variants (S350 is a great example) out of the U.S. market. Now, they are not only bringing them in, but they are also creating new models specifically to target the badge audience.

The MB CLA is a great example of that. The first generation of that car was cheaply made and looked like it came straight out of a market research group session.

The 2nd gen CLA is much improved at least . MB is good at hiding cost cutting in their new interiors that doesn't show up on test drives. Once you get into ownership the creaks and rattles rear their heads and haunt you without mercy. First gen was embarrassing for sure as it looked and felt like a Korean car with a Mercedes badge.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by snareman

Noooooooooooooooo I don't love the BMW big grille, but I HATE with a passion the Lexus grille.

I am the reverse. The problem I have with the BMW grill is that it is too vertical. The Lexus grill is ugly but at leat it has more of a horizontal aspect.

So far, IMHO, MB has the best front end.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I am the reverse. The problem I have with the BMW grill is that it is too vertical. The Lexus grill is ugly but at leat it has more of a horizontal aspect.

So far, IMHO, MB has the best front end.

I agree. Out of the current batch of "gone big grilles" MB has the least offensive.

[hova00]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here we are...Turbo, Auto, AWD, 4000 lbs

R.I.P. ///M Division

- It's the second generation of turbo M3's. Why so surprised?

- Both Manual and Auto are available

- Both AWD and Rear Wheel Drive available

- It doesn't weigh 4000lbs.

Next...

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by snareman

Lexus has lost their way with that hideously ugly grille.

BMW has lost their way to the enthusiast owners as it has become more of a brand for the people and soccer moms and people that want the Roundel, but only want to pay $35,000. I hate it from an enthusiast standpoint but from a business standpoint of the company making money I can't argue it.

From a business standpoint, Lexus sold more by volume in America in 2020 than Mercedes. Toyota/Lexus was the top selling manufacturer in the world in 2020 (followed by VW AG Group that includes both Audi and Porsche among others). If they've lost their way then they're going in the right direction!

[six-n-twins53]

What's a Lexus IS?

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by dgm3

Here we are...Turbo, Auto, AWD, 4000 lbs

R.I.P. ///M Division

So you wanted a NA, Manual, RWD, under 4,00bs. Yup. That's called an E92. Loved mine but that was 12 years ago.

[vetteflier]

Alphas are made by the company that logoed "Fix it again, Tony," and have the same reliability plus cheap interiors. C63s AMGs have consistently been bettered by reputable tests on the internet compared to the M4 Comp. RS5s are great cars, outperformed by the M4 except off the line with AWD, but reeled in after and out lapped. Nice interiors, as usual from Audi, but I prefer the M4's. With the exception of the Alpha, you won't go wrong with any. Just personal taste. Last year for the V8 in C63, so that's something to consider.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by Penguino

So you wanted a NA, Manual, RWD, under 4,00bs. Yup. That's called an E92. Loved mine but that was 12 years ago.

Right now you can get all of that, sans turbo.

[jkap27]

M division is dead despite just releasing one of their all time greats the m2cs 🤣 you have a more diversified m lineup now idk why everyone is hung up on the specific names of the cars.

[Giggler]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

From a business standpoint, Lexus sold more by volume in America in 2020 than Mercedes. Toyota/Lexus was the top selling manufacturer in the world in 2020 (followed by VW AG Group that includes both Audi and Porsche among others). If they've lost their way then they're going in the right direction!

So what if Toyota sells a lot of Corollas and RAV 4’s. Are we not talking about luxury cars? Maybe the reason you can’t keep the comparison strictly apples to apples is because only old ladies are buying Lexus ES’s and hardly anyone wants to touch anything else in the Lexus car lineup? The numbers speak for themselves. The IS500 will probably be a fun car but it was due for a generational refresh and they didn’t come through with a proper platform update so it’s an outdated chassis at heart. Being what it is, it won’t magically become some amazing class leading car that jumps ahead of the German competition just because they shoehorned their V8 under the hood.

[Germanauto]

I actually test drove the the "new" IS350 F sport the other day, right after driving a 330 M sport.

The Lexus is all show no go. Really sporty looking car without the driving dynamics to match. The engine, despite being a 6 cylinder, did not feel smooth in its power delivery and the car felt slow. The steering/handling was mushy and the car didn't feel totally composed when thrown into corners. It was not a "bad" driver's car per say, but having just driven the 3-series before it, the Lexus was put to shame.

The 3er on the other hand, save for some turbo lag, was near-excellent. Power delivery, transmission performance, handling, precision of the steering, etc.