[bri1042]

Apologies for any typo's. This was just me typing away in notepad.

Until the last couple of weeks, I haven't spent much time on the M3/M4 forums. As a quick introduction, I learned to drive on an E30, but not one owned by my family. My parent taught my older brother to drive on her '75 Volare 3-On-the-Tree and after 3 burned out clutches, she put me in the hands of a friend. I drove some nice cars, all Manuals, beyond our family means and then was left to my own devices to attend Driver's Ed and made do with mostly 3-speed automatic junkers for years. I had some fun with a few Japanese cars and headed down the Honda route as I worked my career. A '94 Civic, a '95 Integra GS-R, an '02 RSX-S, and then an '06 RSX-S. Every car I owned that I liked was small and a manual. I had no access to BMW for most of the 90's. I might have been able to stretch to a low-spec E36, but I never did. I stayed within my means. I drove my manager's E39 M5 twice in 2000, and it stayed in my head for years. It was a special car, and far out of my league at the time. But I thought that maybe someday I'd get one.

I loved those cars, but eventually tired of torque steer, FWD, the back-breaking suspension on the RSX and drove to the local BMW dealership on a whim. I drove away in a used E90 328i X-Drive that was a nightmare. My first Automatic since 1991. I was seeking a luxury car that was still fun. That first car was a nightmare, and was followed quickly by a pair of F30 leases. The ZF8 was the best auto I'd ever driven, and it bored me senseless. I gave it another go with the M2C's DCT and for two and a half years, I had finally found the BMW driving experience that I was looking for. For a while, I liked the DCT, and I still think it's the "auto" I'd be willing to own (it or the PDK). I loved the M2C. Pushed hard, it just gives and gives. The DCT melds perfectly with the powertrain. But it was there. That thought. That I'd actually enjoy it more, if it wasn't quite as fast, with a manual. Flicking the paddles just couldn't match it and I started to weigh my options. The real issue was when I couldn't push the M2, when I was just driving along in normal traffic. With a proper manual, you still have something to do. With any auto, you're just sitting there. It isn't for me, and I spent 8 years trying to be OK with it and huge amounts of money. I got accused of "sour grapes" in a discussion about the 6MT vs DCT on the M2C board once. I denied it at the time, but the next day I realized I was wrong and they were right. I was fighting with myself about the DCT over 2 years after making the decision and it was ruining my experience with the car.

ICE powerplants are dying. Audi dropped all their 6MT's. So did Merc. The GT500 is auto-only. They canceled the GT350, and the regular Mustang GT really isn't that good (I test drove several of them). BMW pulled the 6MT from most models. And I had learned to enjoy the level of car offered by BMW, Merc, and Audi and going back to Honda FWD wasn't an option. Other companies that still sold Manuals didn't sell them with the appointments I'd come to appreciate from BMW. Even the M2C's cheap interior is better than most of us realize. We get used to it. Go test driving with a friend who has a 20k budget and it'll bring your perspective back.

I wanted everything my '16 340i gave me, and MOST of what my M2C gave me. I was willing to give up the small size for easier daily usage. I expected that I would lose 15% or so of the feel of the M2C but gain a more usable car, a more comfortable interior, and I'd get one of the last 6MT's attached to an actual higher-end car. One last manual without having to go back to a Civic. As the G80 was teased, and then specs leaked, and I thought about Chris Harris slapping an M3 badge on an M2C in his review video, I realized what I was really looking at with the G80. Not an M3. The modern equivalent of a manual E39 M5. I said this elsewhere...the current M5 is not an M5. It's the M7 they never built. I think I may offend some folk with that statement, but that's what I was expecting the G80 to be. I nearly walked away because I couldn't test drive it. But the M2C gave me enough faith to move forward with the unexpectedly available IOMG M3 6MT that I ended up with.

I won't talk about the looks of the car. I hated the initial photos but I'm not married to any particular look of a car as being "the best". I don't wish everything looked like the E46, or the DB5. Each car needs to be as unique as safety regulations and business requirements as allow for them to have any soul at all. The inside of the car matters to me a bit more than the outside. Because that's where I sit. More photos came and my negative impressions decreased, but didn't disappear. I saw the M440i and didn't exactly like it, but didn't have the negative reaction that others did. And I loved the interior. I attempted to get an allocation but failed, and then I got lucky with an available HEA model that I could go see. I was just going to see it. Really. But it was Green. And it had the options I wanted without the options I didn't. I pushed the clutch to the floor with the car turned off and my hesitancy disappeared. I had found my modern car with a manual. Or so I hoped. It took a couple hours to sign the papers, and I had to wait a few days for the embargo to lift before I could pick it up. I spent a few days saying goodbye to the M2C.

Initial Impressions over the first few days:
1. 8 years of automatics had made me really rusty with the 6MT. The clutch was VERY heavy on day one, but that only lasted about 30 miles before it loosened up. The action on the shifter is not what Honda had given me for so many years. I think it's a bit long throw, but it's acceptable. It certainly has a bias for 2nd and 3rd but that's just something to get used to.

2. The car's size was expected but took a few days to get used to after coming straight from the M2C. At no moment does it feel as large or cumbersome as my SO's 530e. But it isn't small. It reinforced my memories of that E39 as much or more than I expected.

3. The interior was everything I wanted. From the first afternoon jaunt away from my home office to sit with a cup of coffee and a book, it just worked. The M2C was a bit tight, and not a comfie substitute for being able to sit in a coffee shop.

4. The suspension is very, very good. Sport+ comes close to holding the car as flat through turns as the M2C, but is less sharp over bumps. Comfort and Sport both have their place depending on the road you're on. Being stuck in traffic on bad roads is not the "sigh" experience it was with the M2C. I was utterly satisfied with this aspect of the car's performance for the first drive.

Impressions as I got to know the car over a couple hundred miles:
1. The E39 M5 was never capable of this. Once I started trusting the car and let myself throw it into corners I realized that I haven't lost 15% of the M2C's agility. It's maybe 5% less toss-able or even less. The longer wheelbase, more than the weight difference (especially since the M2C was never that light), is the main difference. Steering is sharp, precise, and quick. I'm still not sure which steering mode works best for steering feel, but the utterly numb steering in the '13 328xi defines numb steering for me, and the M2C and the G80 M3 are far, far from that. The handling and suspension will do whatever you and the engine tell it to do.

2. On stock MPSS tires, the M2C required careful manipulation of off-the-line grip. The two F80's I've driven did as well. This car does not (for a RWD sporty sedan). I lost the tire lottery and got Pirelli's, but that doesn't seem to matter. The reports of the car's phenomenal grip for a RWD aren't wrong. AWD performance cars are still going to have an advantage off the line, but not as much as against other RWD cars with power on this level. I do wish I had gotten the MP4S's. I'm not going to fork over the cash to replace the Pirelli's immediately, but I may not wait until they're entirely ready to go.

3. The S58. A lot of people reported some disappointment from the S58 in the X3M low in the rev range. The power build-up from this engine is more linear than I'd expect from a turbo engine, and I think a lot of people have gotten used to the immediate torque from twin-scroll turbo cars (or whatever each car maker wants to call it). The M2C's S55 doesn't have quite the same missing character issue as a twin-scroll, but missed the mark on the sensation of building power a bit. The S58 gives that to you. It isn't pretending to be an NA engine, but it isn't the somewhat soulless thing we've all come to expect from turbo cars, and it isn't the "no power until 3500 rpm or more and then hit you with a sledgehammer" turbo engines of the 80's (and, uh, the current STI). It's a unique engine, and one that I think takes time to learn. Exactly what a performance car should have. I really want to get past the break-in miles...

4. The standard sport seats are the best BMW seats I've had to date. They are comfortable, heavily adjustable, and keep you where you should be while going around a curve. On a track, I'm sure the carbon buckets would be better, but these will be fantastic for our everyday worlds.

5. The 6MT will never match the 5MT in the GS-R, or the 6MT in either RSX-S. They were near perfect, but now that I'm used to it, it does feel like home. Save the manuals (but I won't argue with anyone who goes with the other choice...this one is a personal decision and I wouldn't dream of telling someone they made the wrong choice). I was having fun driving in awful traffic this afternoon while it was raining. Not going fast or doing anything dumb (traffic...no room for dumb)...I just wasn't bored. I had music playing lightly, my SO talking about work, and the actual driving part of it wasn't boring like it is with an automatic. At some point I'll have drive when tired, or when my knee is having issues and regret the whole thing for a minute, but I don't think that feeling will last for long at all.

Negatives:

1. The lost tire lottery. But I knew that before I signed the documents.
2. The gloss black trim on the bottom. Gloss? Really? That's not going to stand up to much abuse before it looks awful. I may get it PPF'd.
3. I'm not brave enough to actually post pictures of it in r/BMW. Not really sure this is an actual negative. :-)


A lot of people focus on one aspect of a car to love or hate, but as the world's most dedicated Only-One-Car enthusiast, it's always been about the complete package. I like a lot of the modern tech. I love a good HUD (and have something of a vision issue at short distance so sort of need it). I don't care about blind spot monitoring or LKA. I'm driving, not riding. Staying in the lines is a basic skill. As is setting your mirrors and looking before you change lanes. But the rest of the modern tech I really love, and this car gives me the modern part of the car industry that I want. I'm not a die-hard old car enthusiast. If I get hit by a truck in an intersection, I WANT the modern safety equipment. This isn't an option. I fought long and hard to survive this long, and I'm not going to have it all end early because I wanted back into an E30 so badly. So it's the complete package that I was after. A 6MT in a modern car that works for everyday life. And is fast. And handles well. That's what this car is. I don't know of any car I could afford that fits the bill the way this one does (without buying used and then you get tech from 5 years ago and that kills the entire equation).

I don't know if I'll ever love the front end of this car, but the overall package exceeds my expectations. As a car that I can take to Costco, the trunk works just fine. As a car I can use to get out of the house after teleworking a difficult job all day, it's utterly stellar. I can carve the curvy roads to my heart's content to a near or far coffee shop and then unwind in my own geeky way. This is the car I'd want to drive across country.

I hope my opinions stay this positive over time. Compared to my last 7 cars or so, this is the first one I haven't found something to be truly disappointed with within the first week. The last car that I was this happy with after the first week and a half was my Integra GS-R. Right now, it feels like I've finally found the BMW I spent 8 years trying to find. If I get to a year and a half and still feel that way, it'll be fact instead of hope.

All in all, is it the modern E39 M5 I was expecting? No. It isn't. It's much more than that and somehow still manages to be an M3 when you push it. I think it has to be driven, and not just for a 10 mile test drive, to be understood. It is it's own thing. And it's great.

I'm including a picture of the part of the car that folk dislike the most, very dirty from rain. For fun. This is what this car's most prominent feature looks like when it's dirty. Heh.

Happy driving, everyone!

[OSee]

Originally Posted by bri1042

3. I'm not brave enough to actually post pictures of it in r/BMW. Not really sure this is an actual negative. :-)

A bunch of 16 year olds in 15 year old 335i's (not that's theres anything wrong with that) throwing rocks at the thrown. Complete circlejerk nonsense.

Thanks for the indepth review.

[scoale]

Read your review with much interest as I own an M2 Comp w/ DCT . Your DCT experience mirrors my own; I love the DCT when I'm pushing it (more than my 6 speed, in fact), but it is less involving than the manual when driving around town. I also agree that the DCT pairs up better with the S55 than the manual does.
Fortunately, I have an F80 manual when I need to scratch that itch.

I think your 5 series comparison is spot on; the car is now the size of a five series AND has the power and more upscale interior to go with it. In fact, it is a better 5 series.

I've not had the opportunity to drive the new G80 yet, but I am sure it outperforms the M2c in most ways - the possible exceptions being brakes and transmission (DCT v Auto). And there is no doubt it would make a better daily for most people. i would be very surprised, however, if it was funner to drive on tight backroads/canyons simply because of the size difference. I definitely notice the size difference when driving the F80 in those scenarios, and the G80 is larger still.

Congratulations on your upgrade!

BTW - many are saying that the grill looks smaller & better in person - your picture seems to illustrate that for me. Like the color too!

[CanuckM]

Thanks for the review, you have summed up perfectly in what I expect out of this car. That is a more grown up; more complete and more luxurious experience than my M2C. I look forward to racking up the miles and finding out what it's "very high" limits are.

[unseen orko]

That's really helpful and glad you found some time to write a detailed review. Like you, I had a tough time deciding on a BMW after e90. Bought m240 and returned in 2yrs. Desperately waiting for my X5 lease to get over in 1 yr.

[Saphirschwarz]

Thanks for the review !!!

[jbsf3]

Great write up, thanks for taking the time to do it. I have a M2C and am considering an M3 down the line as the kids get bigger. Very helpful.

[dgm3]

Great review...bar the typical nonsense on the tires

[trey100]

Really nice review. I'm in an F80 6MT and am looking to do an M2C next but always worry about the space factor like you mention. That's what makes the F80 so great - It's combination of attributes.

The G80 scared me a bit in that I wondered was it just getting too big for a manual but when I sat in one, I really liked the look and also that it seemed it was a bit higher up? Glad to see you are enjoying rowing your own gears again.

[LuckyBrand]

Awesome, awesome review. The interior part is what got me with this car as well. It's almost 5 series like especially compared to the last generation with better agility than an M5. Seems like a good match to me. This is one area with the last generation I was disappointed in was I thought the interior although nice, it didn't really have the luxury feel to me even though I absolutely loved my 3 series. The G80 ticks the box now in this department.

As far as the HUD goes, can you comment on it? Good and bad in your experience with it so far. Thanks!

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by LuckyBrand

Awesome, awesome review. The interior part is what got me with this car as well. It's almost 5 series like especially compared to the last generation with better agility than an M5. Seems like a good match to me. This is one area with the last generation I was disappointed in was I thought the interior although nice, it didn't really have the luxury feel to me even though I absolutely loved my 3 series. The G80 ticks the box now in this department.

As far as the HUD goes, can you comment on it? Good and bad in your experience with it so far. Thanks!

Any HUD is a personal preference question. I know some folk really dislike them overall. The first one I had was in my '16 340 and while tooling around town with it showing nothing but the speed limit, it was cute but not entirely necessary. But when trying to find somewhere with Nav? VERY useful, more so than the voice guidance. Scrolling through songs without having to take your eyes off the road, also fantastic. For me, I'm still (for another three months) in my 40's but I had early-onset cataracts, so my close in vision is weird. My eyes don't refocus like normal eyes do and the HUD is always in focus, so it's nearly a medical necessity.

Overall the digital gauges in this car, and the iDrive screen, work better for my eyes than the gauges in my M2 did for some reason...but the HUD is something I actually NEEDED, not something I just wanted.

The current HUD is significantly better than my 340's, as is the HUD in my SO's 530e. In Road mode, with no Nav destination, it still just gives minimal info and isn't intrusive, which is great. Nav directions are very easy to read on it, and scrolling through the songs is great.

In Sport mode, having the tac so prominently displayed is wonderful. You can charge about, run the curves, bounce through the gears, and never once have to look anywhere but the road. Absolutely love it.

I do wish the Road mode had the Tac in it. It could be smaller, or reduced, but that was a disappointment. I end up in the sport display setting most the time I'm driving. I don't know if the HUD is coding-alterable, but I can live with that one disappointment just fine.

Getting the HUD back was a primary concern for me, and I'm very happy with it.

[LuckyBrand]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Any HUD is a personal preference question. I know some folk really dislike them overall. The first one I had was in my '16 340 and while tooling around town with it showing nothing but the speed limit, it was cute but not entirely necessary. But when trying to find somewhere with Nav? VERY useful, more so than the voice guidance. Scrolling through songs without having to take your eyes off the road, also fantastic. For me, I'm still (for another three months) in my 40's but I had early-onset cataracts, so my close in vision is weird. My eyes don't refocus like normal eyes do and the HUD is always in focus, so it's nearly a medical necessity.

Overall the digital gauges in this car, and the iDrive screen, work better for my eyes than the gauges in my M2 did for some reason...but the HUD is something I actually NEEDED, not something I just wanted.

The current HUD is significantly better than my 340's, as is the HUD in my SO's 530e. In Road mode, with no Nav destination, it still just gives minimal info and isn't intrusive, which is great. Nav directions are very easy to read on it, and scrolling through the songs is great.

In Sport mode, having the tac so prominently displayed is wonderful. You can charge about, run the curves, bounce through the gears, and never once have to look anywhere but the road. Absolutely love it.

I do wish the Road mode had the Tac in it. It could be smaller, or reduced, but that was a disappointment. I end up in the sport display setting most the time I'm driving. I don't know if the HUD is coding-alterable, but I can live with that one disappointment just fine.

Getting the HUD back was a primary concern for me, and I'm very happy with it.

Thank You. I really liked it in my 340 as well and yes tagging through songs is really nice not having to take my eyes off the road as well as navigation.

That was what I was wondering if the new set up was any better and it sounds too you at least other than the road mode not having tach displayed (which I've heard complained about from others as well) it's an upgrade from the last version.

Does the HUD in sport mode also show the speed your traveling. Can you still do the nav and sort through songs as well in that mode or does it only show the tach?

Thanks!

[bri1042]

Sport mode shows Speed, Gear, and Tac by default. It still scrolls songs and shows Nav info - but I'm not positive that it doesn't reduce the Nav info. I'll make a point of testing that when I have a chance.

[HNSKP]

Great writeup! It really gives me hope that I’ve found my next car.

I also leased a 340i, albeit in manual, and even then it was utterly forgettable. The steering felt lifeless and shifter was rubbery. I did find the HUD useful for navigation but rarely needed it. I ended up transferring the lease halfway through and came close to getting an M2C.

Now with manuals getting rarer and my state banning new ICE vehicles in 2035, it’s time to get into something I can enjoy driving for the next decade. Plus having a second child has made my 2+2 impractical.

My questions:
1. Is it possible for the HUD to show the tach but with suspension and steering in comfort?
2. Can you comment on brake pedal feel and travel? Both regular commuting and spirited driving.

[SYT_Shadow]

Glad you're enjoying the car. Regarding your comment on the 6MT being a bit rubbery, eventually Ronald from AutoSolutions will make a SSK for it which removes every bit of rubberiness and makes it feel extremely good.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by HNSKP

Great writeup! It really gives me hope that I’ve found my next car.

I also leased a 340i, albeit in manual, and even then it was utterly forgettable. The steering felt lifeless and shifter was rubbery. I did find the HUD useful for navigation but rarely needed it. I ended up transferring the lease halfway through and came close to getting an M2C.

Now with manuals getting rarer and my state banning new ICE vehicles in 2035, it’s time to get into something I can enjoy driving for the next decade. Plus having a second child has made my 2+2 impractical.

My questions:
1. Is it possible for the HUD to show the tach but with suspension and steering in comfort?
2. Can you comment on brake pedal feel and travel? Both regular commuting and spirited driving.

1. Yes, the "Road vs. Sport" mode for the display is independent of M1 and M2 or individual performance settings. Sport (and Track for those that have it) disables several safety systems, like LKA, though.

2. The Comfort Brake setting feels a bit odd to me coming from the M2C. It's better feel and response than my SO's 530e but I don't like it much. The Sport Brake setting feel is great, and the car responds very well to brake input. It is not as twitchy as the M2C braking setup. And that's a good thing.

[LuckyBrand]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Sport mode shows Speed, Gear, and Tac by default. It still scrolls songs and shows Nav info - but I'm not positive that it doesn't reduce the Nav info. I'll make a point of testing that when I have a chance.

Awesome exactly what I was looking for. I think I will keep the executive package now. There has been a lot of talk about it in other threads, but I think you convinced me to keep it as I was on the fence.

Thanks!

[admranger]

bri1042 Thanks for the review. Appreciate the "cross country road trip" comment. I intend to use my next car to do "retirement" travel on all the fun back roads we have in the US. May take me cross country.

[bri1042]

Went for a drive with a friend and had the destination set while in Sport display. The NAV display with the HUD set in Sport is reduced, but still useful.

[matmanx1]

Great post and much appreciated. Your reasoning sounds much like my own in terms of why I am interested in the G80. I want the practicality of the 4 door sedan with a decent truck but I also want the tech and luxury of a luxury car while also having the involvement of a manual and the performance of a sports car. I don't ask for much, do I?

If the G80 can accomplish all of those with a decent to good level of competency then I think I will be fairly satisfied and hopefully have some fun in the process.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Apologies for any typo's. This was just me typing away in notepad.

Until the last couple of weeks, I haven't spent much time on the M3/M4 forums. As a quick introduction, I learned to drive on an E30, but not one owned by my family. ......Happy driving, everyone!

Awesome write up; heartfelt and genuine that people (or at least I) can relate to. Car and Driver should pay you royalty and print this.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Any HUD is a personal preference question. I know some folk really dislike them overall. The first one I had was in my '16 340 and while tooling around town with it showing nothing but the speed limit, it was cute but not entirely necessary. But when trying to find somewhere with Nav? VERY useful, more so than the voice guidance. Scrolling through songs without having to take your eyes off the road, also fantastic. For me, I'm still (for another three months) in my 40's but I had early-onset cataracts, so my close in vision is weird. My eyes don't refocus like normal eyes do and the HUD is always in focus, so it's nearly a medical necessity.

Overall the digital gauges in this car, and the iDrive screen, work better for my eyes than the gauges in my M2 did for some reason...but the HUD is something I actually NEEDED, not something I just wanted.

The current HUD is significantly better than my 340's, as is the HUD in my SO's 530e. In Road mode, with no Nav destination, it still just gives minimal info and isn't intrusive, which is great. Nav directions are very easy to read on it, and scrolling through the songs is great.

In Sport mode, having the tac so prominently displayed is wonderful. You can charge about, run the curves, bounce through the gears, and never once have to look anywhere but the road. Absolutely love it.

I do wish the Road mode had the Tac in it. It could be smaller, or reduced, but that was a disappointment. I end up in the sport display setting most the time I'm driving. I don't know if the HUD is coding-alterable, but I can live with that one disappointment just fine.

Getting the HUD back was a primary concern for me, and I'm very happy with it.

I agree on the HUD. The lack of it, cameras and other tech on the M2 was one of the big things that kept me from getting the car. Once you get used to having it its hard to go back. Apparently my car has a speedometer, but I'm not sure I ever saw it because I just look at the speed in the HUD. If they could get the M2 to the M3/4 level of tech and interior quality it will be a definite winner!