BMW M3 and M4 - The Icons
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
home
G80 BMW M3 and M4 General Topics BMW M3 (G80), M4 (G82), CSL and 3.0 CSL General Forum

View Poll Results: After the reviews are you more interested in the MT
Yes 106 70.20%
No 45 29.80%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-10-2021, 02:09 PM   #23
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Well that's kind of what I'm getting at: there is supposed to be a tuning difference between brands, however, I've personally never been able to tell a fundamental difference in the shifting characteristics of any ZF8 implementation I've driven. It's also confusing to me why the Giulia would supposedly better when the G8X would conceivably be tuned to be as aggressive as the ZF8 can be given it's following up a DCT. ZF8 is a great transmission but I think it's obvious now that replicating DCTesque clutch engagement with planetary clutch packs is just not going to happen. But that's fine and I think ZF8 is the right choice given the design direction the G8X has taken. Said another way, it might be odd that the G8X is so refined and improved on livability in a noticeable way but retained a somewhat quirky and brutal gearbox. Sure it would definitely enhance the feel/engagement of S58 but at the expense of G8X's duality. I'm sorry Manual guys, don't mean to de-rail your thread
I think it's a decision purely driven by money, meaning they don't want to do the development work for a DCT when they've already done it for AWD on ZF8. Cutting out the dct simplifies their supply chain and development. Won't hurt the reviews because reviewers just shit on the auto no matter what and pine over the MT. They'll lose some customers for the zf8 auto (me) but gain some for having AWD soon.
Appreciate 3
EXE462097.00
RugbyBro7572.50
      03-10-2021, 02:28 PM   #24
Jproos
Facts matter
Jproos's Avatar
United_States
323
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i (2014), M3 (2021)
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
I think it's a decision purely driven by money, meaning they don't want to do the development work for a DCT when they've already done it for AWD on ZF8. Cutting out the dct simplifies their supply chain and development. Won't hurt the reviews because reviewers just shit on the auto no matter what and pine over the MT. They'll lose some customers for the zf8 auto (me) but gain some for having AWD soon.
Someone on here somewhere suggested it was done to accommodate the upcoming Xdrive cars. I have no idea, really, if that makes sense or not.

For sure, costs were considered because they're not going to ignore the costs associated with their transmission.
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2021, 02:52 PM   #25
jzmundy
Major
jzmundy's Avatar
991
Rep
1,495
Posts

Drives: F97
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jproos View Post
Ya, Doug Demuro (for anyone seeing this and not knowing where to look). DriveDown reviewed a 6MT, too.
The end of Doug demuro's review where he revealed he gave the 2018 M5 a 10/10 in handling and the 2018 M3 CS only an 8 out of 10....
I think you may have transposed the acceleration and handling columns. He rates handling for the F90, F80CS, and G80 all as 7/10
Attached Images
 
__________________
Then - E53, E85, E92, E82, F15, F80, G01
Now - F97, Macan S
Appreciate 1
Jproos323.00
      03-10-2021, 02:52 PM   #26
SW19
Colonel
SW19's Avatar
2442
Rep
2,692
Posts

Drives: 2016 Alpine White M2
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wimbledon

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
+1

Doug Demuro really praised the 6MT

I'm thrilled to hear steering has improved and the 6mt feels precise and shorter throws.

Seems the purist win BIG!!!
The 6MT is the only way to go now.I’m not interested in a slushbox M car.The only thing that sucks is that Demuro confirmed that the 6MT gear knob doesn’t light up anymore for night driving.BMW needs to get this feature back on the M3 for the MY22 model year.
Appreciate 1
Jproos323.00
      03-10-2021, 02:54 PM   #27
frankiebones
Brigadier General
frankiebones's Avatar
5297
Rep
3,056
Posts

Drives: Fire Orange G80 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmundy View Post
I think you may have transposed the acceleration and handling columns. He rates handling for the F90, F80CS, and G80 all as 7/10
You're absolutely right I did lol.
__________________
Fire Orange 6MT G80 (Miss July, 2021 Cover of Bimmerpost)
SMB M3 CS (gone)
YMB F80 6MT (gone)
Appreciate 2
Jproos323.00
jzmundy991.00
      03-10-2021, 04:31 PM   #28
Moflow
Lieutenant Colonel
Moflow's Avatar
United_States
2485
Rep
1,602
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
That said I have seen a lot of Supra reviews and everyone almost universally praises the ZF8 in that car and never mention delays.
Ask and you shall receive. (though to be fair to you, he isn't complaining about shift dealay, just overheating the transmission.)

Generally speaking though, i think you're right, not many people complain about the ZF8. But it does have its foibles.


(7:48 if the video doesn't jump there)
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2021, 06:08 PM   #29
bri1042
Brigadier General
bri1042's Avatar
5753
Rep
3,247
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

After spending 4 hours tooling about town relearning my MT skills after taking delivery after a nearly 8-year hiatus, I couldn't be more thrilled with BMW for still giving this to us.
Appreciate 2
ando1954.50
      03-10-2021, 06:29 PM   #30
Bahamut
Second Lieutenant
Bahamut's Avatar
United_States
710
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Clovis

iTrader: (0)

Even with the power deficit versus the competition stock, I really think the 6MT variants are much more special (due to becoming a dying breed of transmission and driver interaction with the car). With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the manual variants of the g80/g82 become the more sought-out versions on the second-hand market in a few years
Appreciate 2
Jproos323.00
Nkr151120.50
      03-10-2021, 10:26 PM   #31
Jproos
Facts matter
Jproos's Avatar
United_States
323
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i (2014), M3 (2021)
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

I’m a bit frustrated with the lack of review videos for the manual.
Appreciate 3
Bahamut709.50
Scorp!on1510.00
      03-10-2021, 10:29 PM   #32
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

First I read for years that the ZF is 'as good as a dual clutch' in all kinds of cars. Like the Quattroformaggio. And then the M3 gets what is likely the best implementation and it sucks.
Regardless, there is an easy solution to the loss of the DCT: manual!
Appreciate 3
Jproos323.00
Scorp!on1510.00
pc9343.50
      03-10-2021, 10:33 PM   #33
Jproos
Facts matter
Jproos's Avatar
United_States
323
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i (2014), M3 (2021)
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
First I read for years that the ZF is 'as good as a dual clutch' in all kinds of cars. Like the Quattroformaggio. And then the M3 gets what is likely the best implementation and it sucks.
Regardless, there is an easy solution to the loss of the DCT: manual!
Right. So much praise for the ZF8, usually. Some (most?) seem to think it’s just fine. I’ll likely never know what Chris Harris is referring to as I’ll likely never drive anything but my own 6MT, but I sure am curious about it.

Last edited by Jproos; 03-10-2021 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: Typo
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow11421.00
      03-10-2021, 10:34 PM   #34
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9666
Rep
6,075
Posts

Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

I hope that by some chance the MT equipped model gets a reasonable percentage of G8X sales. That would strengthen the case to continue producing ICE + MT models in future generations.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown
-2012 Lexus IS250 black/black
Appreciate 1
Jproos323.00
      03-10-2021, 10:46 PM   #35
Bahamut
Second Lieutenant
Bahamut's Avatar
United_States
710
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Clovis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jproos View Post
I’m a bit frustrated with the lack of review videos for the manual.
Will need to cross fingers for more USA-based reviewers to step up. A lot of the YouTubers I followed were based in UK, so manual isn't an option for them unfortunately
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2021, 10:49 PM   #36
LOW4LYF
Brigadier General
LOW4LYF's Avatar
2162
Rep
4,104
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 & F85 X5M
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: @Home

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I hope that by some chance the MT equipped model gets a reasonable percentage of G8X sales. That would strengthen the case to continue producing ICE + MT models in future generations.
They won't...
Level 2 and Level 3 driving assistance systems requires a automatic transmission.
Appreciate 1
EXE462097.00
      03-10-2021, 10:50 PM   #37
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jproos View Post
Right. So much praise for the ZF8, usually. Some (most?) seem to think it’s just fine. I’ll likely never know what Chris Harris is referring to as I’ll likely never drive anything but my own 6MT, but I sure am curious about.
I've never agreed with the lovefest for the ZF, but if it's good enough for other cars that got compared vs the dct then it's also good enough for the M3.
Appreciate 2
Jproos323.00
EXE462097.00
      03-10-2021, 10:55 PM   #38
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9666
Rep
6,075
Posts

Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
They won't...
Level 2 and Level 3 driving assistance systems requires a automatic transmission.
Well I hope there's enough of a business case to continue producing a select few cars which prioritize driving engagement over autonomy/efficiency. Much like the luxury watch market I know there is a market for such cars. The M2, 911, Supra, Mustang, etc come to mind. Politicians hell-bent on banning things also need to be reasonable.

It's saddening that the so called "ultimate driving machine" will soon enough become an appliance for people who would rather be doing anything else but driving. These are market forces BMW cannot fight. But I digress, that's a discussion for another day.
__________________
Former
-2008 E90 328 black/brown
-2012 Lexus IS250 black/black
Appreciate 3
Jproos323.00
EXE462097.00
trey1001125.00
      03-10-2021, 10:56 PM   #39
Jproos
Facts matter
Jproos's Avatar
United_States
323
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i (2014), M3 (2021)
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I've never agreed with the lovefest for the ZF, but if it's good enough for other cars that got compared vs the dct then it's also good enough for the M3.
I just realized I drove the ZF8 last year in an M340i and thought it was too many gears for my taste. I forgot that until just now. 8 gears means a lot of shifting happens. I can’t imagine what those 10 gear autos are like.
Appreciate 1
RugbyBro7572.50
      03-10-2021, 10:59 PM   #40
Jproos
Facts matter
Jproos's Avatar
United_States
323
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i (2014), M3 (2021)
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
They won't...
Level 2 and Level 3 driving assistance systems requires a automatic transmission.
I’s say the chance of another new manual M3/M4 is about 6 billion to 1, against
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow11421.00
      03-10-2021, 11:15 PM   #41
RugbyBro
Brigadier General
RugbyBro's Avatar
7573
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I've never agreed with the lovefest for the ZF, but if it's good enough for other cars that got compared vs the dct then it's also good enough for the M3.
To be fair, when not compared to the top DCTs in a performance context, ZF8 is very good so no doubt it's very good in the G8X. I think there's been a lot of inconsistency over the years by reviewers in how they describe different ZF8 implementations, which probably results in a lot of confusion. Really though, if G8X is as these initial reviews describe (refined/livable), then I don't know that DCT really makes sense. Maybe for a hardcore, stripped down CSL/GTS version with the refinements removed, then BMW could drop the F chassis DCT and it would probably make for a riot. Then maybe just maybe they could also raise the redline of S58 to what it *can* be (7600 based on the technical doc)
__________________
Current: F80
Prior: F82, F32
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow11421.00
      03-11-2021, 12:07 AM   #42
Bahamut
Second Lieutenant
Bahamut's Avatar
United_States
710
Rep
290
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Clovis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jproos View Post
I’m a bit frustrated with the lack of review videos for the manual.


Speaking of, looks like another 6MT review is up!
Appreciate 2
Scorp!on1510.00
LuvMyE922993.50
      03-11-2021, 12:39 AM   #43
scoale
Captain
682
Rep
749
Posts

Drives: M3 /M2C/540
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3  [0.00]
2021 BMW M2  [10.00]
2018 BMW 540  [0.00]
2013 Porsche Boxster S  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
A lot of people made their decisions a long time ago and either like or hate the car...
And some who decided long ago to hate the car will end up buying one. I remember hating the E60 design but later bought a 535 Msport - which was a fantastic car. I also was a hard pass when the F80/F82 was released - I thought it was too big, steering sucked, and sound was laughable in comparison to my E92. I still think those things....two F80s later....
Appreciate 2
Jcali861479.00
EXE462097.00
      03-11-2021, 04:21 AM   #44
maddmatth
Major
New Zealand
555
Rep
922
Posts

Drives: F82 M4, E92 335i
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Really though, if G8X is as these initial reviews describe (refined/livable), then I don't know that DCT really makes sense.
People here making out like the DCT is some rough shifting race gearbox like an SMG or some other single clutch sequential race box
It's a few little quirks that are easy to get used to, sometimes you feel a little thump in low gears as you're slowing down and the car is still cold. It's not a harsh kick or something. It feels a little awkward at first at low speed because of the clutch engagement, rather than the torque converter giving you that push as you ease off the brakes.
Otherwise it's just like any auto and shifts seamlessly in regular driving.

Perfectly livable. I've commuted in a DCT car for years, no issues in cities or traffic - an E92 335i with DCT and now and F82 M4.

It only kicks hard in the most aggressive setting under hard acceleration, which is where the fun is at.

I absolutely love the DCT. So yeah, I'm disappointed that BMW has phased it out. I don't care for the manual. I loved older manual cars but in high performance cars at this level, I'd rather have a fast transmission that gives me that "race car" feel.
Appreciate 2
RugbyBro7572.50
Puuhapete143.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 PM.




g80
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST