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View Poll Results: How fast do you think the G82 competition will complete the Nürburgring
7:10s 2 2.94%
7:20s 9 13.24%
7:30s 35 51.47%
7:40s 13 19.12%
7:50s 3 4.41%
Slower than the F8x 6 8.82%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-27-2020, 10:29 PM   #1
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2021 G82 M4 Competition (RWD) Nürburgring Lap Times Guesstimate Thread

I'm curious as to what your educated Nring guesstimate times are for the G82 M4C AWD will be on the Nring and why? Thank you in advance for voting and keeping this a civil, educational and informative poll/discussion.

The stock F80 non-comp is quoted here as 7:52 and the F82 GTS is quoted at 7:28.

https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4
https://fastestlaps.com/models/bmw-m4-gts

Based on this and putting my finger in the air based on the power/weight, I guess the G82 will do the Nring between 7:30-7:40.

Last edited by Avaley; 10-27-2020 at 10:39 PM..
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      10-27-2020, 10:55 PM   #2
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On what tires? The stock PS4S or the optional PSC2?
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      10-27-2020, 10:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
On what tires? The stock PS4S or the optional PSC2?
I'd be curious as to your guesses for each?
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      10-27-2020, 10:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaley View Post
I'd be curious as to your guesses for each?
I'd say high 7:3X on the PSC2 and low 7:4X on the PS4S
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      10-29-2020, 06:05 PM   #5
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so it seems like 7:30s is the mode with the mean perhaps high 7:30s, would love to get some more polls from everyone, thank you in advance!
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      10-29-2020, 06:39 PM   #6
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genuinely curious as to the rationale / engineering aspects of why the G82 M4 comp would be slower than F82 comp?

I would have guessed the improved power to weight all else equal would be a faster car, but perhaps i'm missing something / people think the weight will make it corner much slower?

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      11-04-2020, 10:16 AM   #7
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The AWD system is going to increase corner exit grip which will result in faster straight line speeds. I am will say low 7:30's.
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      11-04-2020, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
The AWD system is going to increase corner exit grip which will result in faster straight line speeds. I am will say low 7:30's.
You realize the AWD F90 M5 did a 7:36 and has a rather significant power-to-weight advantage over the G8X?

But regardless, the poll is specific about the RWD G8X, not the AWD one...
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      11-05-2020, 08:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
You realize the AWD F90 M5 did a 7:36 and has a rather significant power-to-weight advantage over the G8X?
The G8x will handle better and the S58 is packing way more heat than advertised. I don't believe it's a stretch that the G80x will be quicker around a track.
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      11-05-2020, 09:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
The G8x will handle better and the S58 is packing way more heat than advertised. I don't believe it's a stretch that the G80x will be quicker around a track.
An AWD G80 M3 will be within 150-200lb of an F90 M5 with a ~100hp deficit...

The M4GTS that has a better power-to-weight ratio than the RWD G8X, less weight, aero and coilovers did a 7:34. I don't see the the RWD G8X beating that.
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      11-05-2020, 09:32 AM   #11
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A 7:30, 5 secs behind the 992 Carrera S? Do people really think it will be ~20secs faster than F8X when the G8X is basically an M5 without the power.

Don't make me laugh. This porker will probably do 7:40-7:50.
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      11-05-2020, 11:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
An AWD G80 M3 will be within 150-200lb of an F90 M5 with a ~100hp deficit...

The M4GTS that has a better power-to-weight ratio than the RWD G8X, aero and coilovers did a 7:34. I don't see the the RWD G8X beating that.
As an owner of an S58 powered vehicle I am very confident that it's going to do this. It's a big step above the S55. Time will tell as every single one of us is speculating at this point.
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      11-05-2020, 11:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
As an owner of an S58 powered vehicle I am very confident that it's going to do this. It's a big step above the S55. Time will tell as every single one of us is speculating at this point.
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55. Yes, makes more power, but it simply makes it through bigger turbos at the expense of increased lag and a higher boost threshold.
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      11-05-2020, 01:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55. Yes, makes more power, but it simply makes it through bigger turbos at the expense of increased lag and a higher boost threshold.
It's a step above in the only metric that matters and that's performance. Take a look at the 3.3 sec 0-60 mph and 11.6 mph 1/4 mile times of the X3M for proof of how potent the engine is. It's a monster and let's face it, the B58 is almost on par with the S55 performance-wise as the Supra and M340i are faster than the F80 M3/M4 in a straight line. The S58 is B58 in steroids. The S55 was and is a good engine but the B58 and S58 are simply newer and better designs.

Don't take my word for it as MB fanboy Jonny Lieberman can't even deny it;

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...n-test-review/

Quote:
"It drives much faster than only 503 hp would have you believe," Lieberman said. "It pulls hard, and then over 6,000 rpm it really starts pulling. Beast of a motor." M3 and M4 owners will be quite happy when this engine makes its way into the upcoming G20-edition M3.
In the company of TTV8's in this comparison not a single comment of it being underpowered and in fact quite the opposite. Once the G8x are released then people will realize just how good the engine is.
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      11-05-2020, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
In what terms is it a “big step above”? Technology wise, it offers nothing above the S55.
Nothing is a bit strong.

The compressor wheels used in the turbochargers are said to have been upgraded over the S55’s, while the entire charge-air system has been optimized for flow to mitigate pressure losses. An electronically controlled wastegate is also present, along with what BMW refers to as a water-to-air intercooler.

Like the most recent versions of the N63 and S63 V8 engines, the S58’s direct-injection system now boasts fuel pressure that has been increased from 2,900 psi to over 5,000. This mirrors a change made to the corporate V8 last year, which allowed it to reach its highest rated output yet. Benefits include further improved fuel atomization within the combustion chambers, which is best experienced under heavy engine loads with full acceleration from high speeds.

The core of the cylinder head is one of the most interesting components of the S58. Manufactured using an additive process that can best be thought of as incredibly advanced 3D printing, the cylinder-head core takes a shape that would be impossible to create using any other currently available mass-production method. If the skeletal structure seems at all familiar, that’s because the same process is used to manufacture the ultra-lightweight brake calipers of the M850i Night Sky.

One of the main advantages of the core—and the new manufacturing process—is the ability to accommodate the routing of coolant ducts where they previously could not reach, in an effort to better regulate internal temperatures.
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      11-05-2020, 02:24 PM   #16
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Don't forget the larger grill means 999x more air
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      11-05-2020, 02:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
It's a step above in the only metric that matters and that's performance. Take a look at the 3.3 sec 0-60 mph and 11.6 mph 1/4 mile times of the X3M for proof of how potent the engine is. It's a monster and let's face it, the B58 is almost on par with the S55 performance-wise as the Supra and M340i are faster than the F80 M3/M4 in a straight line. The S58 is B58 in steroids. The S55 was and is a good engine but the B58 and S58 are simply newer and better designs.

Don't take my word for it as MB fanboy Jonny Lieberman can't even deny it;

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...n-test-review/



In the company of TTV8's in this comparison not a single comment of it being underpowered and in fact quite the opposite. Once the G8x are released then people will realize just how good the engine is.
Those 0-60 and 1/4 mile ET numbers only tell me that the X3M benefits from AWD traction from a dig. Trap speed tell a better story. The 2016 M3competiton trapped at 120mph vs the X3Mcompetion at 119mph as tested by C&D. The M3 is also quicker in the 60-100mph.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mw-x3-m-drive/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

The majority of modern turbocharged engines perform better than their power ratings "leads you to believe", that is not a new story. It has to do with how the testing standards are defined. The S58 seems "underrated" in the exact same way the S55 seem "underrated". The fact is that the S58 in competition tune makes ~13% more power than the S55 in competition tune. Power-to-weight is what matters here because it is an apples-to-apples comparison.

That being said, the G8XC will accelerate faster than a F8XC, that's not a question, the power-to-weight ratios tell us that. But power-to-weight also tells us it will unlikely out accelerate a F82 M4GTS. Which was my earlier point, a faster M4GTS with its aero downforce and coil-overs did a 7:34 in the AM&S/SA supertest, so it is unlikely a RWD G8XC will be faster than that.
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      11-05-2020, 02:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by M-SP0RT View Post
Don't forget the larger grill means 999x more air
Sadly not, because there's a big bumper in the way behind that grill
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      11-05-2020, 02:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Nothing is a bit strong.

The compressor wheels used in the turbochargers are said to have been upgraded over the S55’s, while the entire charge-air system has been optimized for flow to mitigate pressure losses. An electronically controlled wastegate is also present, along with what BMW refers to as a water-to-air intercooler.

Like the most recent versions of the N63 and S63 V8 engines, the S58’s direct-injection system now boasts fuel pressure that has been increased from 2,900 psi to over 5,000. This mirrors a change made to the corporate V8 last year, which allowed it to reach its highest rated output yet. Benefits include further improved fuel atomization within the combustion chambers, which is best experienced under heavy engine loads with full acceleration from high speeds.

The core of the cylinder head is one of the most interesting components of the S58. Manufactured using an additive process that can best be thought of as incredibly advanced 3D printing, the cylinder-head core takes a shape that would be impossible to create using any other currently available mass-production method. If the skeletal structure seems at all familiar, that’s because the same process is used to manufacture the ultra-lightweight brake calipers of the M850i Night Sky.

One of the main advantages of the core—and the new manufacturing process—is the ability to accommodate the routing of coolant ducts where they previously could not reach, in an effort to better regulate internal temperatures.
True, "nothing" was a bit harsh. But it still offers very limited advances. The S55 also has electronic controlled wastegates as well as a water-to-air intercooling system. The revised compressor wheel (read bigger) is exactly what I said as being the main change. The only difference of significance is the higher injection pressures which should help with off boost throttle response.
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      11-05-2020, 02:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
True, "nothing" was a bit harsh. But it still offers very limited advances. The S55 also has electronic controlled wastegates as well as a water-to-air intercooling system. The revised compressor wheel (read bigger) is exactly what I said as being the main change. The only difference of significance is the higher injection pressures which should help with off boost throttle response.
It sounds like there is also internal cooling advances which could make the S58 a more consistent performer when being driven hard for extended periods like a ring fastest lap.
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      11-05-2020, 02:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It sounds like there is also internal cooling advances which could make the S58 a more consistent performer when being driven hard for extended periods like a ring fastest lap.
The S55 did not suffer from cooling problems, quite the opposite actually. The S58 likely needs the extra cooling due the added power it makes. But the advantage remains the extra power, not the extra cooling. It will be interesting to see how the 8AT cooling holds up with sustained track use.
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      11-05-2020, 02:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The S55 did not suffer from cooling problems, quite the opposite actually. The S58 likely needs the extra cooling due the added power it makes. But the advantage remains the extra power, not the extra cooling. It will be interesting to see how the 8AT cooling holds up with sustained track use.
Cooling problems as in overheating and optimal combustion chamber temperatures for maximum power output are not the same thing. Significant power advantages can be had by cooling improvements within what is regarded as “normal range”.
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