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      05-11-2021, 08:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
Only way to really know would be to see how consistent the times are.
What do you mean?
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      05-11-2021, 09:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
Only way to really know would be to see how consistent the times are.
What do you mean?
It's difficult to repeat same time over and over again.

I'm more knowledgeable about motorcycle racing and it's difficult to be consistent.

With a 1 second margin; on any given day the base could beat the competition for best lap time.

I'd like to see several laps done and avg time.

I have no dog in this race... just my thoughts
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      05-11-2021, 09:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
It's difficult to repeat same time over and over again.

I'm more knowledgeable about motorcycle racing and it's difficult to be consistent.

With a 1 second margin; on any given day the base could beat the competition for best lap time.

I'd like to see several laps done and avg time.

I have no dog in this race... just my thoughts
For sure, G8X on PS4S around Hockenheim GP would have a tough time achieving just 2 consecutive max pace hot laps, let alone more.

But more than most testing groups, confident that Sport Auto gets close to the best lap time from each car. Believe they also indicate ambient temps in their written publication, which is spot on.
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      05-11-2021, 10:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
It's difficult to repeat same time over and over again.

I'm more knowledgeable about motorcycle racing and it's difficult to be consistent.

With a 1 second margin; on any given day the base could beat the competition for best lap time.

I'd like to see several laps done and avg time.

I have no dog in this race... just my thoughts
For sure, G8X on PS4S around Hockenheim GP would have a tough time achieving just 2 consecutive max pace hot laps, let alone more.

But more than most testing groups, confident that Sport Auto gets close to the best lap time from each car. Believe they also indicate ambient temps in their written publication, which is spot on.
These reviews tend to be supported by the factory, so have a team of technical bods on hand to ensure car performs as it should, new tyres, brake pads, pressures, fuel type, etc.

The driver probably gets a few sessions of practice as well as one or two quali style timed runs. For reference. The driver being a racing driver and a Hockenheim circuit veteran means a pretty accurate account of a single timed run.

Whilst the times are very impressive, what is unknown is how consistently the car would lap a 5-10 lap stint. Important for Track day drivers, and how good it feels at that pace. The 6MT lap looked not much fun at all, but hopefully at 8/10ths the car feels more connected than it looked on the wild 10/10ths lap we saw.
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      05-11-2021, 10:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
These reviews tend to be supported by the factory, so have a team of technical bods on hand to ensure car performs as it should, new tyres, brake pads, pressures, fuel type, etc.

The driver probably gets a few sessions of practice as well as one or two quali style timed runs. For reference. The driver being a racing driver and a Hockenheim circuit veteran means a pretty accurate account of a single timed run.

Whilst the times are very impressive, what is unknown is how consistently the car would lap a 5-10 lap stint. Important for Track day drivers, and how good it feels at that pace. The 6MT lap looked not much fun at all, but hopefully at 8/10ths the car feels more connected than it looked on the wild 10/10ths lap we saw.
Why do you say "not much fun?"
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      05-11-2021, 10:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
These reviews tend to be supported by the factory, so have a team of technical bods on hand to ensure car performs as it should, new tyres, brake pads, pressures, fuel type, etc.

The driver probably gets a few sessions of practice as well as one or two quali style timed runs. For reference. The driver being a racing driver and a Hockenheim circuit veteran means a pretty accurate account of a single timed run.

Whilst the times are very impressive, what is unknown is how consistently the car would lap a 5-10 lap stint. Important for Track day drivers, and how good it feels at that pace. The 6MT lap looked not much fun at all, but hopefully at 8/10ths the car feels more connected than it looked on the wild 10/10ths lap we saw.
I agree they tend to, BMW being an exception.

GTS was tested without factory support.

Recall Andy Pilgrim had to request Cup 2's for his M4 CS track test. BMW was content to send a podium Le Mans finisher out on Pilot Super Sports for a timed lap on a 23 turn 3+ mile track.

And in the case of the G8X, no reason why they shouldn't have arrived to Sport Auto on Cup 2 since they're a factory option and it was a hot lap test. Perplexing, really. The PS4S times are remarkable, but you'd put your best foot forward and objectively the Cup 2's are better suited to the process and slightly faster over one lap.

I don't think BMW M put nearly as much support (or forethought) into these tests as Porsche and Corvette, for example. In some ways maybe that's more commendable. They're not stacking the deck in their favor, they're true dual purpose cars and should be tested as such. But it won't get them the best results as compared to factory supported tests.

As for how it'll fare over a 5-10 lap stint -- G8X looks to be very near GTS pace. In combination with weight, that means too fast for both Michelin options if you're really getting after it on consecutive laps. G8X track drivers will have to pursue more durable aftermarket options, same as usual.

M's have always been a handful at 10/10ths with a lot of emphasis on the driver, and it's good to see that continued in my opinion.
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      05-11-2021, 11:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
These reviews tend to be supported by the factory, so have a team of technical bods on hand to ensure car performs as it should, new tyres, brake pads, pressures, fuel type, etc.

The driver probably gets a few sessions of practice as well as one or two quali style timed runs. For reference. The driver being a racing driver and a Hockenheim circuit veteran means a pretty accurate account of a single timed run.

Whilst the times are very impressive, what is unknown is how consistently the car would lap a 5-10 lap stint. Important for Track day drivers, and how good it feels at that pace. The 6MT lap looked not much fun at all, but hopefully at 8/10ths the car feels more connected than it looked on the wild 10/10ths lap we saw.
Why do you say "not much fun?"
This is the G82 6MT Hockenheim lap I'm referencing.

It looks like an effort to get that lap time out of it. From a viewers perspective I would say that lap is overdriven, too hot. Both excessive over steer and under steer.
But it is a pro driver so he must have arrived at that driving style being the quickest way around. Whilst HKH GP has got a 'torturous on the front tyres' last corner, it looked like they had completely overheated by that point.



Compare how busy the lap was to the M2CS running similar lap times.

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      05-11-2021, 11:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolhead. View Post
I was hoping the G80 Competition would be as quick as the 718 GT4 to be honest, it's close but not there (yet).

The 718 GT4 Sport Auto tested on Hockenheim GP did a 2:53.9 on Cup2 tires and with more than -2deg camber front and rear (out of factory spec strangely). So Cup2 tires on the G80, a set of camber plates and it's there. It will still eat its front tires on a trackday though compared to the 718.
Even if M4 is as quick as GT4, it won't feel the same. You can't outdesign physics. At the end of the story, M4 is still a huge daily drivable sports car compared to a 2 seater mid-engine Porsche which targets track specifically. But anyway, the fact that the lap times are close is more than impressive IMO.
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      05-11-2021, 11:52 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
This is the G82 6MT Hockenheim lap I'm referencing.

It looks like an effort to get that lap time out of it. From a viewers perspective I would say that lap is overdriven, too hot. Both excessive over steer and under steer.
But it is a pro driver so he must have arrived at that driving style being the quickest way around. Whilst HKH GP has got a 'torturous on the front tyres' last corner, it looked like they had completely overheated by that point.

Compare how busy the lap was to the M2CS running similar lap times.
Remember part of what you're seeing is PS4S on the G8X vs Cup 2 on the M2 CS. PS4S were being tortured for sure, will struggle to stay sharp like the Cup 2 over the course of a lap like that.
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      05-11-2021, 12:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
These reviews tend to be supported by the factory, so have a team of technical bods on hand to ensure car performs as it should, new tyres, brake pads, pressures, fuel type, etc.

The driver probably gets a few sessions of practice as well as one or two quali style timed runs. For reference. The driver being a racing driver and a Hockenheim circuit veteran means a pretty accurate account of a single timed run.

Whilst the times are very impressive, what is unknown is how consistently the car would lap a 5-10 lap stint. Important for Track day drivers, and how good it feels at that pace. The 6MT lap looked not much fun at all, but hopefully at 8/10ths the car feels more connected than it looked on the wild 10/10ths lap we saw.
Why do you say "not much fun?"
This is the G82 6MT Hockenheim lap I'm referencing.

It looks like an effort to get that lap time out of it. From a viewers perspective I would say that lap is overdriven, too hot. Both excessive over steer and under steer.
But it is a pro driver so he must have arrived at that driving style being the quickest way around. Whilst HKH GP has got a 'torturous on the front tyres' last corner, it looked like they had completely overheated by that point.



Compare how busy the lap was to the M2CS running similar lap times.

Having driven my M2 on track with both Cup2s and PS4S it's a very different experience..

I am not surprised at all by the driving I see here.
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      05-11-2021, 01:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
From a viewers perspective I would say that lap is overdriven, too hot. Both excessive over steer and under steer.
Guess it's a matter of perspective. I have seen that video and thought it was a lot more to watch than the more casual hot laps lol.
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      05-11-2021, 02:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Having driven my M2 on track with both Cup2s and PS4S it's a very different experience..

I am not surprised at all by the driving I see here.
Have you lapped with 275 / 285 MPS4S on your M2? Less of a difference.
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      05-12-2021, 05:50 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011ninja View Post
It's difficult to repeat same time over and over again.

I'm more knowledgeable about motorcycle racing and it's difficult to be consistent.

With a 1 second margin; on any given day the base could beat the competition for best lap time.

I'd like to see several laps done and avg time.

I have no dog in this race... just my thoughts
I would not be so sure about that. There are for sure many factors that affect lap times such as environmental conditions and and tire life, but I am able to be consistent within a few tenths for a given condition at my local track and I am no pro. A pro driver would be even better.
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      05-12-2021, 05:54 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
I agree they tend to, BMW being an exception.

GTS was tested without factory support.

Recall Andy Pilgrim had to request Cup 2's for his M4 CS track test. BMW was content to send a podium Le Mans finisher out on Pilot Super Sports for a timed lap on a 23 turn 3+ mile track.

And in the case of the G8X, no reason why they shouldn't have arrived to Sport Auto on Cup 2 since they're a factory option and it was a hot lap test. Perplexing, really. The PS4S times are remarkable, but you'd put your best foot forward and objectively the Cup 2's are better suited to the process and slightly faster over one lap.

I don't think BMW M put nearly as much support (or forethought) into these tests as Porsche and Corvette, for example. In some ways maybe that's more commendable. They're not stacking the deck in their favor, they're true dual purpose cars and should be tested as such. But it won't get them the best results as compared to factory supported tests.

As for how it'll fare over a 5-10 lap stint -- G8X looks to be very near GTS pace. In combination with weight, that means too fast for both Michelin options if you're really getting after it on consecutive laps. G8X track drivers will have to pursue more durable aftermarket options, same as usual.

M's have always been a handful at 10/10ths with a lot of emphasis on the driver, and it's good to see that continued in my opinion.
As a tidbit, IIRC, the M4cs tested by Andy Pilgrim was his own newly acquired personal car, and he fitted it with the PSC2.
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      05-12-2021, 06:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
As a tidbit, IIRC, the M4cs tested by Andy Pilgrim was his own newly acquired personal car, and he fitted it with the PSC2.
That's a strong endorsement for the CS! Never have experienced one, halfway point between base and GTS makes all kinds of sense.
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      05-12-2021, 06:41 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
That's a strong endorsement for the CS! Never have experienced one, halfway point between base and GTS makes all kinds of sense.
Found it: https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...-pricing-0-60/

"Besides, our always-game hot-shoe pilot, Andy Pilgrim, got bored awhile back and bought one of his own—the very car featured in this week's episode. The fact is, when stingy racing drivers go as far as putting their own cash into a performance car, well, it doesn't take long or much prompting for them to want to find out precisely how much thrashing it can take, and how much game it actually delivers."

The M4cs is indeed a fantastic car fo me, the best ///M I have ever owned by far in terms of performance and driving connection without any sacrifice in daily practicality (well maybe except for the lack of comfort access).
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      05-12-2021, 06:46 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Found it:

"Besides, our always-game hot-shoe pilot, Andy Pilgrim, got bored awhile back and bought one of his own—the very car featured in this week's episode. The fact is, when stingy racing drivers go as far as putting their own cash into a performance car, well, it doesn't take long or much prompting for them to want to find out precisely how much thrashing it can take, and how much game it actually delivers."

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...-pricing-0-60/
Stingy racing drivers... that's funny. You do have to imagine they're jaded as hell.
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      05-14-2021, 02:40 PM   #40
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Time comparisons are important to a degree but I track my cars - my primary measurement is how much fun I am having in relation to how the car handles on track. I can tell that the M3 is going to be a blast on the track and fast, even if I run the OEM PS4Ss. Now, maybe some Forgelines and MSC2s for the M3 . . . . . . . after I track it a few times to get the feel for it.
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