[kevin415]

On these cars it seems like most of the sound comes from the midpipe, so what difference does the axle back make? Is it very little? Would a resonated midpipe and race axle back be as quiet as a non resonated sport/quiet version of the same exhaust?

[forcefed]

You need to find some local people with exhausts to see what you like, while videos and people's description say one thing, hearing it yourself says another.

[AhsanU]

Midpipes shape the sound on top of adding volume when the resonators are removed. Single vs. x/h pipe vs. equal length - these things matter and change the way your car sounds. However, if you're looking for volume/loudness, you need to consider changing out the downpipes as they're the biggest restriction of sound. Axle backs can definitely make things louder, but it comes at a higher cost both $$$ wise, and living wise - read on to learn more.

Catless = very loud, 200 cell = less loud, AA's GESI = fairly tame closer to stock catted DP's than anything else. Axle backs, depending on your downpipe/midpipe situation, can change how loud your car sounds and introduce drone. That being said, you should first source a valve controller or completely wire the valves open if your circumstances allow for it (I.E., don't care about neighbours, don't care about annoying people in the morning, no babies to drive around, etc.). A lot of people think the car is quiet because the car actually refuses to fully open the valves most of the time unless the car is under a significant amount of load. I think many would be happy with catless downpipes + midpipes (resonated or non-resonated depending on tastes) + stock axle back. This is both effective $$$ wise as catless downpipes can always be reversed, and if you buy MAD's catless downpipes and later want to sell, then you won't be losing out on much money since they're extremely affordable. However, if you find that the axle back + midpipe combo isn't loud enough, then you'll be stuck trying to sell an axle back that won't net much of your money back at all (ask me how I know!). So if you first do catless downpipes + midpipes, you'll be set and know where to go from there while conserving the most money.

Basically, if you're keeping stock/catted down pipes, then have fun with the midpipe/axle back combo. I went from catless downpipes -> single midpipe -> stock axle back, to catless downpipes -> single midpipe -> Meisterschaft GT axle back and the volume didn't change as much as it became slightly higher pitched, but introduced a decent amount of drone at lower RPM's with the valves closed. I decided to go for the axle back because I enjoy the looks of the Meisterschaft tips and hate seeing the ugly muffler from behind - looks awful IMO. If I could do it again, I'd probably keep the OEM axle back and just live with the unsightly "diaper" muffler. The drone isn't that bad really, but I'd rather just have none of it when I'm driving the family around and instead buy some other mods.

I'm a firm believer in retaining the stock axle back when you're going for catless downpipes + non-resonated midpipes - it's just the best of both worlds. An aftermarket axle back removes a decent amount of weight and introduces some looks/flair to the rear of the car, but at some cost if you're running a catless dp + non-resonated midpipe. In terms of sound, it doesn't do too much if you go for the R44/Valvetronic/Remus Sport/Meisterschaft GT etc. However, if you go for things like the Remus Race/Eisenmann Race/Meisterschaft GT2 - then you'll be in for a rowdier time as there isn't much muffling going on in those axle backs.

Oh, and if you're worried about a CEL with catless dwonpipes - don't be. I've been running big daddy's o2 simulator now for almost 8k miles and had a CEL once that cleared itself. I haven't recorded AFR's since I don't really push the car that hard too often to be worried about running lean/rich, but there's been no hiccups except for the one CEL that cleared itself up after a day of driving, ymmv - but others have experienced extremely similar things.

All that being said, what forcefed says is also pretty true - see if you can link up with someone around you and hear their setup in person. Videos seldom do justice and your ear will know what's best. Try to listen from the inside since that's what matters most.

Good luck!

[Fugazii]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

Midpipes shape the sound on top of adding volume when the resonators are removed. Single vs. x/h pipe vs. equal length - these things matter and change the way your car sounds. However, if you're looking for volume/loudness, you need to consider changing out the downpipes as they're the biggest restriction of sound. Axle backs can definitely make things louder, but it comes at a higher cost both $$$ wise, and living wise - read on to learn more.

Catless = very loud, 200 cell = less loud, AA's GESI = fairly tame closer to stock catted DP's than anything else. Axle backs, depending on your downpipe/midpipe situation, can change how loud your car sounds and introduce drone. That being said, you should first source a valve controller or completely wire the valves open if your circumstances allow for it (I.E., don't care about neighbours, don't care about annoying people in the morning, no babies to drive around, etc.). A lot of people think the car is quiet because the car actually refuses to fully open the valves most of the time unless the car is under a significant amount of load. I think many would be happy with catless downpipes + midpipes (resonated or non-resonated depending on tastes) + stock axle back. This is both effective $$$ wise as catless downpipes can always be reversed, and if you buy MAD's catless downpipes and later want to sell, then you won't be losing out on much money since they're extremely affordable. However, if you find that the axle back + midpipe combo isn't loud enough, then you'll be stuck trying to sell an axle back that won't net much of your money back at all (ask me how I know!). So if you first do catless downpipes + midpipes, you'll be set and know where to go from there while conserving the most money.

Basically, if you're keeping stock/catted down pipes, then have fun with the midpipe/axle back combo. I went from catless downpipes -> single midpipe -> stock axle back, to catless downpipes -> single midpipe -> Meisterschaft GT axle back and the volume didn't change as much as it became slightly higher pitched, but introduced a decent amount of drone at lower RPM's with the valves closed. I decided to go for the axle back because I enjoy the looks of the Meisterschaft tips and hate seeing the ugly muffler from behind - looks awful IMO. If I could do it again, I'd probably keep the OEM axle back and just live with the unsightly "diaper" muffler. The drone isn't that bad really, but I'd rather just have none of it when I'm driving the family around and instead buy some other mods.

I'm a firm believer in retaining the stock axle back when you're going for catless downpipes + non-resonated midpipes - it's just the best of both worlds. An aftermarket axle back removes a decent amount of weight and introduces some looks/flair to the rear of the car, but at some cost if you're running a catless dp + non-resonated midpipe. In terms of sound, it doesn't do too much if you go for the R44/Valvetronic/Remus Sport/Meisterschaft GT etc. However, if you go for things like the Remus Race/Eisenmann Race/Meisterschaft GT2 - then you'll be in for a rowdier time as there isn't much muffling going on in those axle backs.

Oh, and if you're worried about a CEL with catless dwonpipes - don't be. I've been running big daddy's o2 simulator now for almost 8k miles and had a CEL once that cleared itself. I haven't recorded AFR's since I don't really push the car that hard too often to be worried about running lean/rich, but there's been no hiccups except for the one CEL that cleared itself up after a day of driving, ymmv - but others have experienced extremely similar things.

All that being said, what forcefed says is also pretty true - see if you can link up with someone around you and hear their setup in person. Videos seldom do justice and your ear will know what's best. Try to listen from the inside since that's what matters most.

Good luck!

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by kevin415

On these cars it seems like most of the sound comes from the midpipe, so what difference does the axle back make? Is it very little? Would a resonated midpipe and race axle back be as quiet as a non resonated sport/quiet version of the same exhaust?

The assumption that the sound comes from the midpipe only is not accurate.

When I upgraded the midpipe, the car got noticeably louder with a deeper midrange tone. But the sound did not fully develop until I later changed the axle. They both play a major role; changing one and keeping the other stock is rarely enough for the customer.


The last question you asked does not make a lot of sense. It depends on the axle back; you need to be more specific. Most companies don't even offer different race /sport versions.

Im running a resonated single midpipe with the active autowerke axle back. It's the perfect balance for a daily driver, in my opinion. I will use the Dinan valve controller to keep the valves open, as I want it to be more aggressive.

sound clip at the end of the video

[kevin415]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I'm a firm believer in retaining the stock axle back when you're going for catless downpipes + non-resonated midpipes - it's just the best of both worlds. An aftermarket axle back removes a decent amount of weight and introduces some looks/flair to the rear of the car, but at some cost if you're running a catless dp + non-resonated midpipe. In terms of sound, it doesn't do too much if you go for the R44/Valvetronic/Remus Sport/Meisterschaft GT etc. However, if you go for things like the Remus Race/Eisenmann Race/Meisterschaft GT2 - then you'll be in for a rowdier time as there isn't much muffling going on in those axle backs.

Good luck!

Hey thanks for the awesome response, I am mainly leaning towards midpipe and axle back so I don’t have to cut anything in my garage. So would a non resonated midpipe+ Remus sport/eisenmann sport/meisterschaft GT be the same as a resonated mid pipe + Remus race/eisenmann race/meisterschaft GT2 then in your opinion? Is the first option better since I am guessing no drone at all? I just fear it being too quiet. I don’t really want to do downpipes yet. Maybe one day

[kevin415]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The last question you asked does not make a lot of sense. It depends on the axle back; you need to be more specific. Most companies don't even offer different race /sport versions.

Hey mike thanks for your response, could you check my latest response above and let me know what you think?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by kevin415

Hey mike thanks for your response, could you check my latest response above and let me know what you think?

No 2 setups are going to be the same.

If you are worried about drone, keep the midpipe resonated. If you are worried about it being too quiet, get a valve controller to keep the valves open.

[kevin415]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

No 2 setups are going to be the same.

If you are worried about drone, keep the midpipe resonated. If you are worried about it being too quiet, get a valve controller to keep the valves open.

So then res mid + race would probably be better than a nonres mid + sport since it may require you to get a valve controller and there may be drone since the mid pipe is non-res? and the res mid + race will give you almost the same sound in the end without the drone?

[JDUNITNOW]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The assumption that the sound comes from the midpipe only is not accurate.

When I upgraded the midpipe, the car got noticeably louder with a deeper midrange tone. But the sound did not fully develop until I later changed the axle. They both play a major role; changing one and keeping the other stock is rarely enough for the customer.


The last question you asked does not make a lot of sense. It depends on the axle back; you need to be more specific. Most companies don't even offer different race /sport versions.

Im running a resonated single midpipe with the active autowerke axle back. It's the perfect balance for a daily driver, in my opinion. I will use the Dinan valve controller to keep the valves open, as I want it to be more aggressive.

sound clip at the end of the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylQzsYidt_s

Mike, I just had the Dinan valve controller installed this weekend that bought off your site. I love it and install wasn't hard, you just had to remove a lot of stuff in trunk.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by kevin415

So then res mid + race would probably be better than a nonres mid + sport since it may require you to get a valve controller and there may be drone since the mid pipe is non-res? and the res mid + race will give you almost the same sound in the end without the drone?

Better is subjective, you are focusing too much on the comparison.
Just listen to the different setups online and get the one that you like.

Originally Posted by JDUNITNOW

Mike, I just had the Dinan valve controller installed this weekend that bought off your site. I love it and install wasn't hard, you just had to remove a lot of stuff in trunk.

i will be installing it this week and posting the install video in a few weeks

[Info@mad-us.com]

Midpipe and a valve controller is going to be the way to go for most people that just want a bit more than the car came with.

[njoyRice]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I will use the Dinan valve controller to keep the valves open, as I want it to be more aggressive.

Off topic but I thought you were using the VSC-2 valve controller. Are switching just because or are you having similar failure issues as other forum members?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by njoyRice

Off topic but I thought you were using the VSC-2 valve controller. Are switching just because or are you having similar failure issues as other forum members?

no failures on the VSC-2

i just like to test different brands