[Wills2]

Originally Posted by d001

So it took 4 years for BMW to squeak out a couple of tenths and beat the 2017 QV? Come on....what happened to BMW M, the one that used to lead driving dynamics and everyone else followed? And yes, I own an M3 and several other BMWs

It's half a second over a very short lap, over a longer circuit and that's a big difference over a lap on the Ring it'd be many seconds.

And whilst perhaps not relevant to how these are are actually driven it shows the engineering involved, and was the QF any quicker than the F8* anyway? As the GTS was faster than it round the ring.

[Bumpinjeep]

Few things to note,
The QF is on basically slicks, the tires have a 60 treadwear rating. They last less than 10K miles, can't be driven on at temperatures below 45 and hydroplane. if you put the car on regular street tires, or hell, high performance street tires, it's not the magical darling you think it is.
The G80 is faster in this case but for how long? You're not going to take your car to the track to do 1 lap.
What we do know is that according to this video at least, the car is very well balanced, which for 99% of drivers who don't track, that is perfect.
I'm actually glad that the Alfa came out and made BMW up their game. Competition, pardon the pun, is a good thing.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JustChris

I always felt Sutcliffe hated the F8X series.

^ This

I've always felt his F80 vs Civic Type-R test was rigged to justify his view. I've come across many Type-R on track, and they not even in the same realm of track performance than an F8X.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

^ This

I've always felt his F80 vs Civic Type-R test was rigged to justify his view. I've come across many Type-R on track, and they not even in the same realm of track performance than an F8X.

Does he even mention the F8X in this video? If not what does his feelings for it have to do with this comparison and his G8X comments? If anything it sounds like the BMW started with a disadvantage...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Does he even mention the F8X in this video? If not what does his feelings for it have to do with this comparison and his G8X comments? If anything it sounds like the BMW started with a disadvantage...

I was referencing the second video, where the F80 was pitted against the Civic Type-R. Sutcliffe was known for not liking the F8X.

He also likes to put drama in his reviews. In the video he makes it seem like the G80 starts with a disadvantage, but he already knows full well that it posted the better lap time. Also that whole weight difference thing is BS, the Alfa and G80 weigh about the same.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I was referencing the second video, where the F80 was pitted against the Civic Type-R. Sutcliffe was known for not liking the F8X.

Ah ok, yeh didn’t even watch that

[solstice]

Originally Posted by matmanx1

Seriously impressive. The chassis tuning on the new M cars appears to be extremely well sorted. Coupled with that monster of an engine the new M3 and M4 are coming out of the gate looking very strong.

We all commented on the early ring videos about how sorted and quick it looked. Turns out we weren’t wrong, it’s becoming more clear by the review and by the incoming real world performance numbers that these are indeed very well behaved fast cars on the track.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by d001

So it took 4 years for BMW to squeak out a couple of tenths and beat the 2017 QV? Come on....what happened to BMW M, the one that used to lead driving dynamics and everyone else followed? And yes, I own an M3 and several other BMWs

As pointed out this was on a short circuit (1450m) with a lap time just 3/4 of a minute.

The Alfa was 1,1% slower than the M3

And even though it obviously isn't directly transferable to a different track with a different layout, a 1,1% gap on lets say a 7:35 lap time for the M3 at the Nürburgring equals a 7:42 lap for the Alfa...

Again not directly comparable, but on a short track the time difference will obviously be numerically smaller but still a significant difference

[trey100]

Doesn't this track seem a bit like 4 straightaways?

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by trey100

Doesn't this track seem a bit like 4 straightaways?

Almost a rectangle ... i imagine spending a day on this would make wear on the tries so much worse on the left side...

[mirob]

Originally Posted by JustChris

I always felt Sutcliffe hated the F8X series.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

^ This

I've always felt his F80 vs Civic Type-R test was rigged to justify his view. I've come across many Type-R on track, and they not even in the same realm of track performance than an F8X.

+3

I remember when this came out at the launch of the F8X.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Few things to note,
The QF is on basically slicks, the tires have a 60 treadwear rating. They last less than 10K miles, can't be driven on at temperatures below 45 and hydroplane. if you put the car on regular street tires, or hell, high performance street tires, it's not the magical darling you think it is.
The G80 is faster in this case but for how long? You're not going to take your car to the track to do 1 lap.
What we do know is that according to this video at least, the car is very well balanced, which for 99% of drivers who don't track, that is perfect.
I'm actually glad that the Alfa came out and made BMW up their game. Competition, pardon the pun, is a good thing.

To be honest when Sutcliffe mentions the QF was riding on P Zero Corsa supercar tires used on the 911 Turbo S, Aventador, McLaren's etc, I thought it was going to put up the better time as they are closer to Cup 2's than the PS4S tires. It makes the M3's time even more impressive.

[mirob]

Anyone else notice them using F90 interior shots to show the iDrive features? Doesn't make sense.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Almost a rectangle ... i imagine spending a day on this would make wear on the tries so much worse on the left side...

Yes the famously named historic circuit:-

Straight 1
Straight 2
Short straight 1
Short straight 2

[Ikester19]

Verdict - the G80 is an absolute beast, has had glowing reviews from launch. Some minor issues to iron out but hopefully by the time the LCI is here it will be even better. Hope BMW can somehow tune the ZF box to get it to feel more crisp like the DCT.

Given competitor offerings it seems BMW has this segment of the market all wrapped up. Well done BMW! Oh and the grille looks just fine..

[deeldoo]

This says nothing about the G80.

It's one lap on a 4 straight track.

Put this car on a technical track with many twists and turns where it can't use that bonkers acceleration and see how it does.

Not saying the G8X isn't a great performer, because i have no doubts it will be, but this hasn't taught me anything new. This car is very very fast, and on a crazy fast track like this Power to Weight ratio will propel it.

I haven't read the full review here but on this track i don't doubt it can beat any non GT 911 other than the turbo and turbo S

[Tacoma]

Why is everyone so elated at 43.9s over 44.4s over a distance of about 0.9 mile? Frankly, comparing a brand spanking new BMW platform vs. a 6-yr old Alfa platform, I expected better.

We knew BMW understates power. The F80 CP gave up ~60hp on paper to the Giulia QV and many reviews had bimmer practically tied or losing just by a hair, and people were questioning where all that extra QV horsepower went?

The "doesn't feel it's weight" comment is good but the context here is that it's still a heavy car but just doesn't feel like it. That's like a oblique compliment, like telling someone 'you don't look fat'.

What's interesting is so far we've seen 3 video reviews of G8x vs. Giulia QV and the other 2 reviews (by AutoCar and PistonHeads) both picked the QV over the G8x despite the latter being faster. The reasoning seems to be the fun factor and road connection that favors the Alfa. BMW's used to always get the 'fun to drive' votes for the subjective win. I'm not so elated.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Why is everyone so elated at 43.9s over 44.4s over a distance of about 0.9 mile? Frankly, comparing a brand spanking new BMW platform vs. a 6-yr old Alfa platform, I expected better.

We knew BMW understates power. The F80 CP gave up ~60hp on paper to the Giulia QV and many reviews had bimmer practically tied or losing just by a hair, and people were questioning where all that extra QV horsepower went?

The "doesn't feel it's weight" comment is good but the context here is that it's still a heavy car but just doesn't feel like it. That's like a oblique compliment, like telling someone 'you don't look fat'.

What's interesting is so far we've seen 3 video reviews of G8x vs. Giulia QV and the other 2 reviews (by AutoCar and PistonHeads) both picked the QV over the G8x despite the latter being faster. The reasoning seems to be the fun factor and road connection that favors the Alfa. BMW's used to always get the 'fun to drive' votes for the subjective win. I'm not so elated.

I think its a perspective thing...we around here seem to not give other manufacturers much
credit but if were completely discounting reliability which is what these reviewers seem to be doing the giulia qv is an all time great car. Yea you can take a glass half empty outlook and say a new car should be winning all these comparisons but also the g8x is winning comparisons against one of the all time best sports sedans(discounting reliability) The issue is a buyer can't completely discount reliability 🤣 not to mention .5 seconds on a short track when the bmw had the inferior tires is an eternity. Double 'not to mention'...the Giulia won those comparisons you mentioned because of it's softer ride. Aren't most people around here complaining the m3 is going soft? Lol triple 'not to mention'...all those videos said the m3 was the better track car. Isnt most of the anti g80 crowd mad this gen isn't as good of a track car?

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by deeldoo

This says nothing about the G80.

It's one lap on a 4 straight track.

Put this car on a technical track with many twists and turns where it can't use that bonkers acceleration and see how it does.

Not saying the G8X isn't a great performer, because i have no doubts it will be, but this hasn't taught me anything new. This car is very very fast, and on a crazy fast track like this Power to Weight ratio will propel it.

I haven't read the full review here but on this track i don't doubt it can beat any non GT 911 other than the turbo and turbo S

The grip/ maintaining speed through turns is receiving equal if not more praise than the 'bonkers acceleration' I would assume the g80s gap over it's rivals will widen even more on a more technical track based on the feedback from Steve Sutcliffe here. And I mean if people want to be disappointed that this sports sedan can't outlap a $140k + porsche they will probably be able to do so lol so something for everyone

[deeldoo]

Originally Posted by jkap27

The grip/ maintaining speed through turns is receiving equal if not more praise than the 'bonkers acceleration' I would assume the g80s gap over it's rivals will widen even more on a more technical track based on the feedback from Steve Sutcliffe here. And I mean if people want to be disappointed that this sports sedan can't outlap a $140k + porsche they will probably be able to do so lol so something for everyone

High speed Cornering grip and toss ability and agility are vastly different, i reckon just by weight and sheer size of this car it will have a tough time in really tight sub 50 mph corners, these long sweeping high speed corners it's great traction helps it.

Even my F82 struggles and feels large in tight cornering, i don't expect it to feel like a miata or carry entry speed like one but i am just stating that i would like to see it on a track that doesn't just have a bunch of straights.

Over 1 lap it definitely would spank a stock F8X, after 10-15 i don't know, weight + tires + breaks + physics might show it's face, but for it's intended purposes it is an ugly but very capable car.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Why is everyone so elated at 43.9s over 44.4s over a distance of about 0.9 mile? Frankly, comparing a brand spanking new BMW platform vs. a 6-yr old Alfa platform, I expected better.

We knew BMW understates power. The F80 CP gave up ~60hp on paper to the Giulia QV and many reviews had bimmer practically tied or losing just by a hair, and people were questioning where all that extra QV horsepower went?

The "doesn't feel it's weight" comment is good but the context here is that it's still a heavy car but just doesn't feel like it. That's like a oblique compliment, like telling someone 'you don't look fat'.

What's interesting is so far we've seen 3 video reviews of G8x vs. Giulia QV and the other 2 reviews (by AutoCar and PistonHeads) both picked the QV over the G8x despite the latter being faster. The reasoning seems to be the fun factor and road connection that favors the Alfa. BMW's used to always get the 'fun to drive' votes for the subjective win. I'm not so elated.

Feel is all that matters when driving a car. Weight is just a number. By the same token the Afla weighs less but feels heavier so you have to ask yourself what is more desirable to you. The car that feels lighter or the one that feels heavier but is lighter on paper.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by deeldoo

High speed Cornering grip and toss ability and agility are vastly different, i reckon just by weight and sheer size of this car it will have a tough time in really tight sub 50 mph corners, these long sweeping high speed corners it's great traction helps it.

Even my F82 struggles and feels large in tight cornering, i don't expect it to feel like a miata or carry entry speed like one but i am just stating that i would like to see it on a track that doesn't just have a bunch of straights.

Over 1 lap it definitely would spank a stock F8X, after 10-15 i don't know, weight + tires + breaks + physics might show it's face, but for it's intended purposes it is an ugly but very capable car.

True I would like to see that too i just think the evidence we have shaping up is that it will excel in those areas compared to the rest of the class and previous gen but we shall see! Haha had to sneak the 'ugly' in there I'm all for it I honestly like the idea of driving around in a divisive looking car that I personally like so keep em coming loll