[solstice]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Would be cool if BMW had all these legacy M3's laying around but put them on the same modern tire / brake pads/fluid and ran them again at the 'ring to see how close or far apart they actually are.

I’m pretty sure when BMW benchmark a new M3 vs the outgoing models to make sure the new car dominates they do so with the same or equivalent tire model (but not size) on the cars.

[AllaVodka]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Thanks for sharing!

Great review and also interesting to see a Comp model weighing in at 1695kg (3733lbs)!
Compares well with the weight of the manual car and the "lightweight" manual std model from the BMW video.

A more realistic power test (compared to Dynojets etc) shows 522hp and 665Nm which is in line with factory figures.

Their verdict ("Fazit") is also interesting:

"Bravo BMW! The new M4 is fast like a 911, but not a 911 copy, which squats dull over the track and can seem emotionless. Precision and fun to drive is a better description (for the M4). And about the kidneys; you get used to everything".

Anyone who calls a 911 dull on a track is either driving the wrong 911 or full of shit. Also are comparing the lowest level 911, to the highest level of the 3/4 platform? What a joke lmao. Any decently spec'd 911 will absolutely destroy a G80 on a challenging / windy track.

Or maybe the 911 just handles so damn well you dont have to fight it?

Im sorry, but in every single metric possible (outside of rear leg room)...

911 > G80

Not close at all

Been covered here - https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1779987

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

Anyone who calls a 911 dull on a track is either driving the wrong 911 or full of shit. Also are comparing the lowest level 911, to the highest level of the 3/4 platform. What a joke lmao.

Or maybe the car just handles so damn well you dont have to fight it?

Im sorry, but in every single metric possible (outside of rear leg room)...

911 > G80

Not close at all

For an M3/M4 to be within spitting distance of a focused sports car is an impressive metric regardless.

[AllaVodka]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

For an M3/M4 to be within spitting distance of a focused sports car is an impressive metric regardless.

I don't disagree. It is impressive. I'm also not entirely sold on it being .4 slower than the porsche. The 911s can launch 0-60 in 3.1, and should easily out-handle the M4. Something seems off IMO. Also, it was specifically the "dull" comment that I found absurd.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

I don't disagree. It is impressive. I'm also not entirely sold on it being .4 slower than the porsche. The 911s can launch 0-60 in 3.1, and should easily out-handle the M4. Something seems off IMO. Also, it was specifically the "dull" comment that I found absurd.

With the M4C reportedly being just 3-4 sec slower than the 911CS on the ring in terms of factory times I’d say the 911 got off easy here

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

I don't disagree. It is impressive. I'm also not entirely sold on it being .4 slower than the porsche. The 911s can launch 0-60 in 3.1, and should easily out-handle the M4. Something seems off IMO. Also, it was specifically the "dull" comment that I found absurd.

You need the PSC2 for that. It's 1.6 slower on comparable street tires, as per the article in the OP.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Actually the gap between PS2 (E92) and PSS (F82) was really HUGE, I'd say bigger than PSS and PS4S.

Do you have any evidence of that? Because from what I recall, the gain is the same range of roughly 1sec/min lap.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

No arguments there. How much of the cons are related to looks?

It's difficult to put an actual number on it, it is about the sum of the parts. But let's just say that if the only con would have been the looks, I would have likely bit the bullet.

In your case, I perfectly understand your choice as the 6MT has a significant weight in the balance for you, so you're getting similar performance as your current CS but with the added enjoyment of a 6MT

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

Anyone who calls a 911 dull on a track is either driving the wrong 911 or full of shit. Also are comparing the lowest level 911, to the highest level of the 3/4 platform? What a joke lmao. Any decently spec'd 911 will absolutely destroy a G80 on a challenging / windy track.

Or maybe the 911 just handles so damn well you dont have to fight it?

Im sorry, but in every single metric possible (outside of rear leg room)...

911 > G80

Not close at all

Been covered here - https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1779987

Not my words, they are what the quite experienced car journalists said about the 992 gen Carrera.

In my view it's fair to compare the entry level M4 with the entry level 911.
Otherwise it would be 420d vs Carrera S....

The M4 CSL will be the one that is compared with the GT3 RS.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's difficult to put an actual number on it, it is about the sum of the parts. But let's just say that if the only con would have been the looks, I would have likely bit the bullet.

In your case, I perfectly understand your choice as the 6MT has a significant weight in the balance for you, so you're getting similar performance as your current CS but with the added enjoyment of a 6MT

So looks aren't nearly as important to you as performance, as I would have guessed.

The looks are a huge plus for me.

I feel fortunate that my brain (subjectively) loves this car from every angle.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not my words, they are what the quite experienced car journalists said about the 992 gen Carrera.

In my view it's fair to compare the entry level M4 with the entry level 911.
Otherwise it would be 420d vs Carrera S....

The M4 CSL will be the one that is compared with the GT3 RS.

To be fair from a price and performance standpoint, the CSL should be compared to the GT3, not the RS.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Do you have any evidence of that? Because from what I recall, the gain is the same range of roughly 1sec/min lap.

This might help.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...r-sport-tires/

The article says the PSS lapped 1.5seconds faster on a race track than the PS2. Not sure if that was on the Dubai track??? That one is 3.35miles long, so quite a long lap time.

Seems tyre tech has been consistent between car models.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Do you have any evidence of that? Because from what I recall, the gain is the same range of roughly 1sec/min lap.

I had PS2 as oem tyres on my 1M and then switched to PSS, it was like driving a totally different car, the stiffer sidewall completely impacted the driving dynamics.
You do not notice this huge change going from PSS to PS4S, actually the steering is a bit more precise on the PSS and the overall difference is very subtle. You can feel that PS4S is the successor of PSS, while PS2 and PSS were on totally different level.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

This might help.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...r-sport-tires/

The article says the PSS lapped 1.5seconds faster on a race track than the PS2. Not sure if that was on the Dubai track??? That one is 3.35miles long, so quite a long lap time.

Seems tyre tech has been consistent between car models.

Interesting, but it's hard to quantify the gain, too many variables (car, type of track, type of asphalt and so on), on one track with one car it could be 1 second and on another track with another car it could be 3 seconds.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

To be fair from a price and performance standpoint, the CSL should be compared to the GT3, not the RS.

Agree that the GT3 is probably a better comparison.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

This might help.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...r-sport-tires/

The article says the PSS lapped 1.5seconds faster on a race track than the PS2. Not sure if that was on the Dubai track??? That one is 3.35miles long, so quite a long lap time.

Seems tyre tech has been consistent between car models.

It's in line with what I recall. I remember Michelin claiming ~1.5s over a 2.7km/1.7mile track.

EDIT: found it: https://www.motortrend.com/news/test...t-super-sport/

So very similar to Pobst time gain from PSS to PS4S with the M2 on a 1.6 mile track.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's in line with what I recall. I remember Michelin claiming ~1.5s over a 2.7km/1.7mile track.

So very similar to Pobst time gain from PSS to PS4S with the M2 on a 1.6 mile track.

I concur

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I had PS2 as oem tyres on my 1M and then switched to PSS, it was like driving a totally different car, the stiffer sidewall completely impacted the driving dynamics.
You do not notice this huge change going from PSS to PS4S, actually the steering is a bit more precise on the PSS and the overall difference is very subtle. You can feel that PS4S is the successor of PSS, while PS2 and PSS were on totally different level.

Your points are very subjective.

I remember from my research in my E9X days that the general consensus was about 1sec/min lap for the PSS over the PS2. Some folks even preferred the PS2 on track over the PSS because the deeper tread of the PSS created more squirm. For sure, these are ballpark figures and will vary, but they do indicate that the gains from PS2-->PSS-->PS4S are in the same ballpark.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Your points are very subjective.

I remember from my research in my E9X days that the general consensus was about 1sec/min lap for the PSS over the PS2. Some folks even preferred the PS2 on track over the PSS because the deeper tread of the PSS created more squirm. For sure, these are ballpark figures and will vary, but they do indicate that the gains from PS2-->PSS-->PS4S are in the same ballpark.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/...-the-best-tyre
https://tflcar.com/2020/09/michelin-...-sport-review/

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

out of curiosity:
Are you guys all going to track that car?

If not:
Who the hell cares? It's faster anyway and you won't be able to use it anywhere unless you are on ze german autobahn.

It's impressive for me to see what this car is capable of. But i'm damn sure I will feel it not even 1% of the time I own this car as I will use it basically exclusively for daily stuff.
I will track it someday for sure, just for fun. And I bet my a** even if I had an F80 I would have the same amount of fun.
These cars are beasts anyway and i'm such a beginner tracker that I won't notice anything at all. And I think most of the buyers are like me, just few will use the car on the very limit.

Let's accept the fact the BMW made a great car.
Lack of DCT is the only thing I understand why people are upset.
And looks is subjective, always has been.

Yes. My F80 M3 CS is almost exclusively a weekend and track car. I go once or twice a month. I am by no
means a pro driver and I've only been tracking for a few years. Lap times are important to me because they show me the potential of the car. I also like the tighter courses where handling plays a bigger factor that outright speed. How much wrangling of a bigger car at I going to have to be doing? Is it going to be fun with a bigger and potentially heavier car? Personally, I'm waiting for some lap times at my local tracks and testimonies for multiple people who track and have come from the F8X before I decide if the G8X is even going to be a consideration for me at the end of the year when I replace my F80.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Originally Posted by AllaVodka

Anyone who calls a 911 dull on a track is either driving the wrong 911 or full of shit. Also are comparing the lowest level 911, to the highest level of the 3/4 platform? What a joke lmao.

I think it is actually the other way around, comparing a dedicated sports car that is much more expensive, to the car that is based on a big sedan/coupe should be a joke

Any decently spec'd 911 will absolutely destroy a G80 on a challenging / windy track.

https://www.autobild.de/videos/porsc...-19472459.html

You can see that the new M4 on the street tires is almost as fast as the Carrera S (certainly faster than the base Carrera) on this track, and if we want to be more objective, for the similar amount of money we should compare the M4CS to the Carrera S, and you can be sure that the new M4CS would "destroy" Carrera S on this track

Im sorry, but in every single metric possible (outside of rear leg room)...

911 > G80

Not close at all

I don't disagree. It is impressive. I'm also not entirely sold on it being .4 slower than the porsche. The 911s can launch 0-60 in 3.1, and should easily out-handle the M4. Something seems off IMO. Also, it was specifically the "dull" comment that I found absurd.

On that particular track the M4 was on Cup2's, but the new M3/4 is having similar, or even better acceleration than Carrera S:

Launching the car from a dig is not that important for the race track, and if we look at the 100-200 km/h acceleration, the M3 is as fast and even actually faster!
7,72 sec. vs 8,05 sec.

So, for the money, there is no contest, the new M3/4 is better all rounder with very close performance to the Carrera S.

[AllaVodka]

Originally Posted by PeregrineFalcon

I think it is actually the other way around, comparing a dedicated sports car that is much more expensive, to the car that is based on a big sedan/coupe should be a joke

https://www.autobild.de/videos/porsc...-19472459.html

You can see that the new M4 on the street tires is almost as fast as the Carrera S (certainly faster than the base Carrera) on this track, and if we want to be more objective, for the similar amount of money we should compare the M4CS to the Carrera S, and you can be sure that the new M4CS would "destroy" Carrera S on this track

On that particular track the M4 was on Cup2's, but the new M3/4 is having similar, or even better acceleration than Carrera S:

Launching the car from a dig is not that important for the race track, and if we look at the 100-200 km/h acceleration, the M3 is as fast and even actually faster!
7,72 sec. vs 8,05 sec.

So, for the money, there is no contest, the new M3/4 is better all rounder with very close performance to the Carrera S.

If we're gonna argue the best $$ for performance then we might as well throw Japanese and American car makers in there. But I have a feeling a BMW sub would't wanna do that, cause the corvette would crush.

I still don't see the point in comparing a low trim dedicated sports car to the highest trim daily capable coupe.

Like I said, if $$$ is the only metric you're using to base the comparison on.. the corvette wins.