[jkap27]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I mean, sure, the G80 will be easier to drive. The F80 was difficult to drive for the wrong reasons though, to use your same logic. Front end was unpredictable, traction was hard to come by, etc. Got my heart going many times for the wrong reasons. I'm 38, been driving performance cars my entire adult life, and the F80 is my all time favorite car that I've ever owned. However, the things they changed about it are the things I would have asked them to change about it.

I gotta ask, are you a recently banned member coming back under a new account? You know your sh*t and you hate the G80 so...

yea this really is pretty analogous to what happened with the drive quality of the C8 corvette. The car no longer tries to kill the driver therefore people that have learned to tame the beast from years of practice do not want to see a more capable car lol they want the wild thing. Which is totally a valid opinion but theres quite a few more exhilarating track cars than any generation of the M3 anyway. not to mention a big chunk of people that want that raw feel will likely be purchasing the manual i would think.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

Lol they gonna be real quiet on this one.

i dont see this as a hugely negative thing for either the f80 or the g80 camp...the giulia qf is exceptional... its just wildly unreliable and has a cut rate interior. If Alfa could improve the reliability everyone that wanted a performance sedan would probably be driving one lol

[gemini.m3]

Originally Posted by jkap27

i would say just the same that people hoping the reviews were negative because they didnt like the looks of the car...want their f80s to be the most special etc etc...are butthurt about hearing all the positives about the car only one side is psychoanalyzing the way the muscles of Chris Harris' face move the way he says things after all hahaha i mean this in fun i think forums literally exist to debate these kinds of things loll

I don't get the logic, personally. I don't like the looks of the car, but as a BMW fan I'm happy to see the brand is doing well from a performance standpoint at least - there will always be something better, so I truly hope people don't feel this way about their f80 m3s - each M3 will have its own place in history and it'll be up to the owner of the car to decide if its worth keeping and not jumping to the next gen.

We now know the G80 is better than the F80 in every way with the exception of losing some "rawness" in the process - if that feeling is important to you, then keep your f80, if not the g80 is more than a capable platform, if you can deal with the looks.

I just dropped 90k on the M2 CS, but I hope the G87 M2 or G87 M2 CS is as successful or more so, it won't diminish the value of my current gen and it'll be up to me to decide whether the G8x platform is worth the jump in 2-3 years.

There are a ton of people that wait for these cars to depreciate before they can comfortably afford them or they just don't want to take the depreciation themselves - I can see that crowd hating on the G80, but I'm guessing in 2-3 years most of them will make the jump as well. There is no way the next gen m3 isn't partial or fully electrical, so let's enjoy these damn ICE cars while we got em.

[mcjohnsonsg]

Originally Posted by jkap27

i dont see this as a hugely negative thing for either the f80 or the g80 camp...the giulia qf is exceptional... its just wildly unreliable and has a cut rate interior. If Alfa could improve the reliability everyone that wanted a performance sedan would probably be driving one lol

Except they would probably have to jack the price up significantly to be able to improve quality to that extent. Alfa made a decision to trade emotion for quality in where they invested their dollars. They won't be able to keep that emotion, while improving the quality without jacking the price.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg

Except they would probably have to jack the price up significantly to be able to improve quality to that extent. Alfa made a decision to trade emotion for quality in where they invested their dollars. They won't be able to keep that emotion, while improving the quality without jacking the price.

Quality to me includes reliability. I see none of that in an Alfa tbh

[Bimmr7]

Originally Posted by 911r

Haven driven both back to back a few days ago, this is right on the money. Looks aside, and generally speaking, the G80 M3 felt like a beefed-up, better performing M340 with some more gadgets. The F80 M3 felt like a totally different animal compared to an F30 340i--and obviously the E90 M3 felt 100% different than the E90 335i.

Do you think that’s because the E90 335i was a twin-turbocharged, direct-injection 3.0 and the E90 M3 was a V8?

[Bimmr7]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

There's a lot of confirmation bias going on here as those who were positive on the car before mostly heard the positive spins, while those who had reservations or didn't like it, heard the other side.

My take is consistent with your view that CH, as a journalist, tried to point out the pros and cons, trying to be as fair as possible, knowing reviews are inherently subjective. And the biggest subjective from CH that I heard is that the car was not as fun to drive. This brings me back to the old days whenever C&D and other reviewers did a comparison test and the Benz or Audi ticked enough boxes to win on paper but, despite that, they pick the BMW because of the "fun factor." Those days are gone.

And finally, I absolutely agree that if you read between the lines and look at his muted reaction compared to other reviews where CH really liked the car, that he did not think highly of the G8x. Indeed, I am reminded of his review of the F80 when it first came out and his reaction was like that of a giddy kid on Christmas morning repeating superlatives like "This is spectacular, I think" or "It moves the game massively from the last car [E9x M3]" or "It's just stupendous!" or "Wow, wow, wow!" - and you know when he reeealy likes a car and when he's, like, meh.

Here was CH's F80 review. And this was the base F80, not CP or CS modesls. You can easily tell he's a lot less excited driving the G80.

You make a post pointing out bias just to insert a bias opinion? 😂😂😂

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Quality to me includes reliability. I see none of that in an Alfa tbh

Oh yea I wouldn't argue that as a prospective buyer. These youtube dudes doing reviews don't seem to factor in projected reliability though so I can see them having a soft spot for alfa cars when they just drive one for a weekend

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bm323

Hi, what is the reviewer commenting regarding below? I'm not sure whether I fully understand

2:25 and 4:00 steering?

He says steering effort has been reduced but effort builds up nicely as the tires load up. He then says he screwed up his steering wheel handing (driver error) and that the traction control saved him despite being very permissive.

However, he says the steering does not provided sufficient feedback/indication when the car starts to understeer. It does have a quick response though which allows to correct.

Originally Posted by bm323

6:00 steering feedback?

Here he talks about brake feedback. He does not like the fact the the brake feedback is artificial because the feedback does not change as the brakes heat up. The pedal travel does not change and therefore does not give a warning to the driver that they starting to get weaker. You need to rely on "gong" and an indicator light on the dash when the brakes start to overheat. He also mentions the lack of ABS feedback in the pedal making it difficult to know where the threshold is, you can feel the ABS in body vibration but he finds the lack of direct ABS feedback to be insufficient for him. Not an issue on the street but not ideal for the track.

Originally Posted by bm323

6:50 lag and boost - some lag below 3000 rpm?

Important here to understand difference between boost threshold and lag.

• Boost threshold: the engine rpm at which there is sufficient exhaust gas to provide boost
• Turbo lag: when above the boost threshold, the lag between the request for power and the desired power delivery

He first tests the boost threshold by flooring at 2,000rpm, so there's an inherent delay before the engine gets in the zone where it can make boost at 3,000~3,500rpm before it starts to pull strongly.

He then test lag by flooring at 4,000rpm, he says there is a slight lag but not super bothersome.

[ringo9]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

I mean, sure, the G80 will be easier to drive. The F80 was difficult to drive for the wrong reasons though, to use your same logic. Front end was unpredictable, traction was hard to come by, etc. Got my heart going many times for the wrong reasons. I'm 38, been driving performance cars my entire adult life, and the F80 is my all time favorite car that I've ever owned. However, the things they changed about it are the things I would have asked them to change about it.

I gotta ask, are you a recently banned member coming back under a new account? You know your sh*t and you hate the G80 so...

Nope, never been a member here before, just been following the F80/82 closely all these years and speaking to a couple owners from my local track club to see how they're getting on with them as I have always had my eyes on a F80 CP for when the time would be right to get into one (seems like this could pretty soon).

Can't say the picture painted by either owners or reviewers of the competition package agree with what you say about being difficult for the wrong reasons or front-end being unpredictable? the common conclusion usually is: "that's how the car should have come from factory", despite most mentioning that the car has also a (more hidden than before) wild side which, for most, seems to only add to its uniqueness and more hard-core approach compared to its tamer competitors.

Also, for me personally, after years of driving safe FWD and AWD performance cars jumping into a M-car would be all about that temperament and the sense I'm getting from the reviews is the G80 offers less of that so I see it as step in the wrong direction, especially since BMW offers some truly capable alternatives in that department already (M340i xDrive, M5 F90)

I don't own the car in order to worry about my resale figure and I don't lose any sleep hating the G80 as you might think, just saying it has taken a smoother approach that brings it closer to its competitors and further from its predecessors which for some might work in favour but for others, clearly against it. This has nothing to do with it being apparently an excellent all-rounder otherwise.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by jkap27

Oh yea I wouldn't argue that as a prospective buyer. These youtube dudes doing reviews don't seem to factor in projected reliability though so I can see them having a soft spot for alfa cars when they just drive one for a weekend

Yea the comparison to the Alfa is a tough one. When someone says they prefer the Alfa do they mean they do assuming the Alfa will be reliable over their ownership? Or are they saying they prefer the Alfa even if it's in the shop for 50% of their ownership?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

He says steering effort has been reduced but effort builds up nicely as the tires load up. He then says he screwed up his steering wheel handing (driver error) and that the traction control saved him despite being very permissive.

However, he says the steering does not provided sufficient feedback/indication when the car starts to understeer. It does have a quick response though which allows to correct.


Here he talks about brake feedback. He does not like the fact the the brake feedback is artificial because the feedback does not change as the brakes heat up. The pedal travel does not change and therefore does not give a warning to the driver that they starting to get weaker. You need to rely on "gong" and an indicator light on the dash when the brakes start to overheat. He also mentions the lack of ABS feedback in the pedal making it difficult to know where the threshold is, you can feel the ABS in body vibration but he finds the lack of direct ABS feedback to be insufficient for him. Not an issue on the street but not ideal for the track.

Important here to understand difference between boost threshold and lag.

• Boost threshold: the engine rpm at which there is sufficient exhaust gas to provide boost
• Turbo lag: when above the boost threshold, the lag between the request for power and the desired power delivery

He first tests the boost threshold by flooring at 2,000rpm, so there's an inherent delay before the engine gets in the zone where it can make boost at 3,000~3,500rpm before it starts to pull strongly.

He then test lag by flooring at 4,000rpm, he says there is a slight lag but not super bothersome.

Thanks much, CanAutM3 for your explanation and time.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I don't know if this is a repost, but here we can see some interesting colors and some performance bits on the M3, as well as the good way of presenting the sound coming from a distance

[DecemberStorm]

new joe achilles video after he drove the M4 first... He mistakenly called it dravit grey a few times, but I believe this is oxide ii

[scoale]

Originally Posted by ringo9

Nope, never been a member here before, just been following the F80/82 closely all these years and speaking to a couple owners from my local track club to see how they're getting on with them as I have always had my eyes on a F80 CP for when the time would be right to get into one (seems like this could pretty soon).

Can't say the picture painted by either owners or reviewers of the competition package agree with what you say about being difficult for the wrong reasons or front-end being unpredictable? the common conclusion usually is: "that's how the car should have come from factory", despite most mentioning that the car has also a (more hidden than before) wild side which, for most, seems to only add to its uniqueness and more hard-core approach compared to its tamer competitors.

Also, for me personally, after years of driving safe FWD and AWD performance cars jumping into a M-car would be all about that temperament and the sense I'm getting from the reviews is the G80 offers less of that so I see it as step in the wrong direction, especially since BMW offers some truly capable alternatives in that department already (M340i xDrive, M5 F90)

I don't own the car in order to worry about my resale figure and I don't lose any sleep hating the G80 as you might think, just saying it has taken a smoother approach that brings it closer to its competitors and further from its predecessors which for some might work in favour but for others, clearly against it. This has nothing to do with it being apparently an excellent all-rounder otherwise.

Agree with your assessment of F80. The grip limits, with the nannies on and even a modicum of throttle control, are far beyond what anyone needs to be safe on the street and the chassis is neutral with the nannies off....isn't that what you want in a RWD car??? I also note that the throttle response got more linear as the model years progressed. I sometimes get the impression on here that people want to engineer all of the RWD out of the car

[Rick955]

Originally Posted by DecemberStorm

new joe achilles video after he drove the M4 first... He mistakenly called it dravit grey a few times, but I believe this is oxide ii

Like his M4 review, he loves it. I ask the same question he does.. "Why does the M4 cost more when the M3 would logically be the higher priced model?" Baffling BMW.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Rick955

Like his M4 review, he loves it. I ask the same question he does.. "Why does the M4 cost more when the M3 would logically be the higher priced model?" Baffling BMW.

I think it’s always been that way for BMW coupes. If you think this is weird for the G8X, check out M5 vs M8 and all 6 series vs 5 series...

Maybe the structural differences without the B-pillar, frame less door windows etc. is slightly costlier to develop and produce. We know for sure that the coupe volumes are lower so that could factor in on needing higher margins for return on investment.

[EXE46]

No need to engineer out anything, when AWD is finally available for those people. RWD for me always and countless more here on this fora. It's been said ad nauseam but enthusiast are a tiny fraction of the buyers of these cars. As such, BMW must cater to what the majority desires or go bankrupt. Which is what many enthusiast espouses around these parts which would probably mean no more M3.

The car market isn't what it was in the E36/E46 era, competition is way more fierce especially with Tesla now selling record volumes. BMW has also lost numerous former customer's to this new challenger and then we wonder why they have to build a car that appeal to a more mainstream audience. I can only assume most here don't understand how a business functions...

[wasya152]

I really want to drive one especially awd vs rwd. I really love my CS and it's so pleasurable to drive especially at the limit. If g80 can deliver the same things but with all the extra features, sounds like my next ride. So far reviews are very positive, but I would love to see a f80 comp or Cs vs g80 back to back test. In my experience, that's really the best way to tell difference between cars.

[simpelton]

BMW M3 CSL manual conversion. Could this be peak M3?

Perhaps wrong group. Just some nostalgia given the debate

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by akkando

Yea the comparison to the Alfa is a tough one. When someone says they prefer the Alfa do they mean they do assuming the Alfa will be reliable over their ownership? Or are they saying they prefer the Alfa even if it's in the shop for 50% of their ownership?

only 50%?

[deli333]

I think apart from Chris all sounded like a bmw salesperson. Please remove the links of people who have been smiling from the first second of the video until the very last.