02-20-2022, 09:55 AM | #45 | |
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So if you're passing C7Z's, chances are it's a 60 year old man just enjoying actually being on the track. C7Z's, especially manuals, will clean house with a proper driver. People really don't understand how fast corvettes are, especially z06 variants. |
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02-21-2022, 06:35 AM | #46 | |
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I agree with BGM that the Z06 will bring tons of new people to the Corvette brand. I have never liked Corvettes, but am considering one solely for the engine. I plan to own a special NA engine into the EV future (while having an EV daily). I do agree that engine reliability is a huge concern. I'm sure it'll have teething issues, but just hoping it's reliable once those are resolved. Other cars I'm considering are GT3/GT4RS or R8 V10. The nice thing about the Porsche 4.0 is you know it's bulletproof. I don't know about the V10, so would have to research that. |
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02-21-2022, 10:11 AM | #47 | |
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And there aren’t any people out for a casual stroll in the groups I run in.
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02-21-2022, 10:32 AM | #48 |
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After watching the videos, I cannot believe how benign that AMG appears to be even in lower speed corners, especially with the power it is deploying. Amazing.
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02-21-2022, 11:20 AM | #49 | |
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A stock stingray running with a z06 variant is huge, if drivers are equal. A proper z06 driver would lap a stingray. I’m sure your car is set up properly and I’m sure you have more skills than most corvette owners at a given track but make no mistake, it’s not your car really it’s your skill level. Especially if your m3 is stock. It will never compete with a corvette stock vs stock. And that’s talking about a stingray. A z06 comparing to an m3, your f80 or even a g80 and a z06 will destroy it. |
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02-22-2022, 09:27 AM | #50 | |
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The C7Z is very hard to drive really well, and forget about playing with it at the limit. I’ve personally witnessed 2 instructors wrecking their cars on a colder day at VIR on a November track day. They can be very spooky once you’re really cooking, and many drivers back off at that level. The M3 runs fine in November, and mid July, and when it rains. It’s easier to maximize the potential of the M (which I am far from doing). I guess I’ve come to the general conclusion that these 1 second, 2 second (or even 10 second differences on the Nurburgring) truly don’t mean squat. It’s how the car responds to a certain level of skill, let’s call it middle level, that is represented by what you see on track days. Anyway by the time you get to run in Intermediate or Advanced, most cars are not stock anymore, and some of them are extremely far from stock. Passing or getting passed is just a hopefully minor inconvenience, best dealt with as quickly as possible so you can resume the experimentation. Unless you’re playing with a buddy of course. Car brands and models are almost irrelevant.
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2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i Last edited by adc; 02-22-2022 at 09:35 AM.. |
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02-22-2022, 05:06 PM | #51 | |
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The C7Z is a handful to control, even in stock form. I know i have one. The best anyone can ever do if they own these cars is to actually get a slower car and learn car control first, then step up if they want to take their C7Z at the track. The issue with most corvette owners is a lot of them use their ego to drive. Which means they'll take their car out, even during a warmup lap, with their cup2's and then turn everything off. That's how one of our fellow corvette members lost his yellow C7Z. There was a gigantic thread following that accident. Some people felt bad for him. Some people gave him so much shit for not learning about the car before just setting out, and giving it 100% throttle, 2 minutes into your first lap, on cup2's. The PDR shows he gave it 100% throttle and he couldn't control it. The car was totalled. I disagree however about the 1-2 second lap time. While 1 second probably means nothing at the ring because there's many factors that contribute to those lap times, just remember as cars or times get faster, every second DOES count. For instance if a C7Z can run the ring at 7:13 and then you take your M3, and run 7:11, your car is blistering fast. But if a car ran 7:55 at the ring, and you took your M3 and ran 7:52. Then yeah that probably means nothing. |
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02-22-2022, 06:05 PM | #52 | |
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The difference between a 7:13 and a 7:11 lap at the Ring (over 13 miles) can just as easily ascribed to a sneeze in the wrong corner, the difference in weather conditions, or a butterfly farting in China. I'll keep my opinion that 2 seconds means nothing really, with all the variability of car/track/time, even with similar level drivers. If we're talking professional racing, 1 second per lap is a huge gap that most drivers cannot recover from. But note that professional racing occurs with all cars running at the same time, and experiencing the same conditions. With a large car test such as Sport Auto's, despite their attempt to equalize conditions (same driver/track/day), there is significant variability between the cars running at 9AM vs. 2PM in the day. Unavoidable really, so do take all these with a grain of salt. That is all I'm saying.
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02-22-2022, 06:14 PM | #53 | |
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So if that same driver took your car and ran 7:11 that is insanely fast is what i'm saying. Which would give credit to the car, since the driver is equal. If we factor in those things you said about seconds apart, then that means every single time posted at the ring is flawed. Manufactures have multiple attempts at getting their fastest time. If they do it on a day with traffic, one hold up costs them that lap. Then it's done. They start over. I don't think if a manufacture puts out 7:13 for a specific car and they're not happy with it, they won't allow that time to be it. They will get another attempt at some point in time to get their best lap. Regarding regular drivers like you, or me, or whomever you may see at the track and you know their car is capable of putting down very fast laps but don't, that is the fault of the driver. Which is what i pointed out in an earlier post. You saying you're keeping up with C7Z's or porsches in your lightly modded M3 doesn't mean your car is necessarily fast, it just means you're a better driver than those who are driving those C7Z's and porsches. Similar as if you were to put a pro driver in your car, i bet he will run 2-3, or 4-5 seconds faster than your fastest lap at whatever track you're on. |
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02-23-2022, 09:11 AM | #54 | |
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Case in point, in the hands of amateurs such as us there is no practical difference between the cars in this Sport Auto test that are 1 second apart. Over a 30 min session you will get a variability of 2-3-4 seconds per lap due to tires and brakes fading, driver getting tired/unfocused, seat comfort, car behavior and traffic from other drivers. You may get passed in the first lap by that Aston Martin, only to reel it back 3 laps later, only to get passed again as you make a mistake 2 corners in a row and he’s on you like glue again. Yes a Miata or a GTI will not keep up but cars that are 1 second apart are not really apart at track days. Forgot to say, performance over 1 hot lap may or may not be indicative of performance over a 30 min session. The auto C7Z may overheat after 15 min.
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02-23-2022, 11:22 AM | #55 | |
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My c7z is a manual so it doesn’t suffer overheating. A hero lap is a hero lap, that’s why I’m referring to the ring. As cars get faster every second is crucial or the lap is toast. A car running 7:13 like a c7z and another car running 7:12 or 7:11 just shows how much faster the 7:11 car is even though it’s only 2 seconds faster. Slower cars with seconds dividing it means nothing. All I was saying which is what started this whole thing was that when you said you can pass c7z And Porsches and it’s no big deal isn’t a credit to your car since f80 isn’t even in the same breath as a c7z, it just means you’re a better driver than those driving those Porsches and c7z’s. You take someone with an equal driver skill as you behind the wheel of those cars and you’ll never even be able to read their license plate because they’re so far ahead of you. |
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