01-18-2021, 02:33 PM | #155 | |
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Do you mean the 6MT with the F10?
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01-18-2021, 04:11 PM | #156 | ||
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01-18-2021, 04:18 PM | #157 |
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Yes it's most likely the torque rating
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01-18-2021, 04:41 PM | #158 |
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[QUOTE=frankiebones;27132959]Indeed if it is the same transmission (98% sure it is) it is a weak argument from BMW.
On the forums everyone who owned a M/T F10 M5 talked about how fun the extra dimension was even trough the car was better performing with a DCT.
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01-18-2021, 10:20 PM | #159 | |
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I call total utter BS on this being a reason.
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01-19-2021, 10:10 AM | #160 | |
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If it's about money, they could have made the 8AT more expensive and captured the revenue.
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01-19-2021, 10:11 AM | #161 |
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Didn't have the time to find it lol but I knew it was in the Q&A.
By the way, the questions they answer are definitely staged and spoon fed by an account they control.
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01-19-2021, 02:27 PM | #162 |
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We've established that BMW does have a 6MT in its arsenal that can handle more power and torque on the V8s. Which BTW is the same general architecture they've been using for years and adapted to many models.
I'll tell you what I think the true reason for the detune is (and you were right there!): cost. The V8s use a beefier twin-disk clutch. T̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶6̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶a̶r̶d̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶g̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶k̶ ̶c̶l̶u̶t̶c̶h̶.̶ edit1: was wrong here, the S55 got a twin-disk I imagine BMW didn't want to spend the $ necessary to come up with a new/upgraded clutch for the more powerful i6 (especially since they probably don't foresee selling many). Instead it's probably getting the same/similar hardware that's on the F80 hence the identical torque rating. edit2: nailed it, same clutch as the F8x Last edited by kaiv; 02-19-2021 at 12:12 AM.. |
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01-19-2021, 03:16 PM | #163 |
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Then it's not the same transmission as the F10 and the argument has some flaws my friend.
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01-19-2021, 04:35 PM | #164 | |
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The ZF S6-53 found in the F10 M5 has also been fitted in 6 cylinder cars. Of course they are not 100% identical but it is still the same general architecture as I've mentioned earlier. Like a wheel can be made in a variety of sizes and offsets, transmissions are tweaked based on application and fitment. The clutch is 100% different. |
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01-20-2021, 09:18 AM | #165 | ||
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When I tune my car, I'll be sure to let you know if I blow my clutch. That will be the only true test. If people who tune have reliability issues.
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01-20-2021, 02:26 PM | #166 |
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01-20-2021, 02:51 PM | #167 |
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confused you for another gentleman, my apologies. I share the responsibility with the iPhone Bimmerpost app, but the fault is mine.
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01-20-2021, 10:40 PM | #168 |
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Yeah that was me and I'm happy to say it. I recall a few tuned 6MT S63TU cars and they were fine as well.
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01-21-2021, 04:58 AM | #169 | |
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01-21-2021, 06:12 AM | #170 |
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The relative difference will likely be less than on paper due to the lower losses of the 6MT.
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01-21-2021, 06:29 AM | #171 |
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01-21-2021, 06:35 AM | #172 |
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There is less power lost in a manual transmission from gear meshing and oil churning than in a planetary automatic. That loss is reflected in heat, there is a reason why the 8AT needs an oil cooler while the 6MT does not. A manual transmission also has less rotating inertia than a planetary auto which will also have it read higher power numbers on chassis inertia dyno.
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01-23-2021, 08:43 AM | #173 |
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I can't understand why anyone wants to kill off the manual. I have owned two F83s, one with the DCT and one with the 6MT. While I agree the 6MT is slower the driving experience is so much more fun and engaging. Plus the BMW 6MT is just about perfect. The clutch is weighted perfectly and the pedals are set up for heel to toe. The shifter linkage is precise like a bolt action rifle. The added driver involvement more than out weighs a 1/10th of a second or so to 60mph.
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01-23-2021, 09:08 AM | #174 | |
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If you take equally specced performance cars today, one with manual, one with automatic, the automatic will always be quicker. There's 2 reasons manuals are disappearing today: 1) In high performance cars, modern automatics are significantly quicker. A human can't even hope to shift as quickly, and where speed/performance is the name of the game, you go with the more efficient option. 2) In regular consumer cars, manufacturers don't have incentive to try and steer the market one way or another in regards to gearboxes. They're simply responding to market demands. If most people choose automatics, it's not because of some conspiracy to kill manuals, it's because most people (shockingly, most consumers aren't car enthusiasts) prefer to not have to shift their own gears. I'm not pro auto or manual, I see virtue in both, but today, the ONLY reason to offer a manual in the US market is because of enthusiasts preferring to shift their own gears as it offers additional driver engagement. Unfortunately, enthusiasts represent an extremely tiny minority of the auto consumer market.
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02-14-2021, 09:45 PM | #175 |
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All companies do this when they need to implement something that could be deemed unfavorable whether to their clients or employees. Rather than say "we are changing xyz" they set the table so that the change seems to happen either naturally or due to another reason - as long as they can have plausible deniability.
If M division wanted a manual, they would have spent the money upgrading the manual to withstand the torque. When they didn't do this, that is the tell that they want it gone. Now if they can use it with no additional headaches (like in the detuned G87 or base G80) then great. But their heart is clearly not in it. All that being said (and I'm a manual guy) - isn't this far too big for a manual? I feel like at some point, it's just getting a manual to say you have a manual. The F80 is already pushing it. |
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02-15-2021, 06:24 AM | #176 | |
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