[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agree with all of the above.

Ya know, when I first came to BMW in 2000-2001 with the E46 330ci, and later a few E46 M3's, etc., I used to take the Porsche comparisons seriously.......

....until I actually priced one out AND talked to owners about the maintenance. Ughhh, it was a reality check. Big time!

Very true, the P-car owner experience is vastly different. It’s not comparable and a rude awakening for anyone thinking the pain is over after handing over the first check. It’s the easy part...

[il Nemico]

Originally Posted by solstice

The same debate rage with the F8X. And yes it's a large car, if you want a compact the G8X ain't it neither is the F8X. That train sailed decades ago.

What's the debate?..
I only asked for a photo. 🤷*♂️

What am I trying to garner?..
A side by side visual.🤷*♂️

I have no motivations or any intent to stir the pot.. chill.😏

I own an M2 cs and I am genuinely interested in on hand comparison since @silber is an owner of both and my dealer hasn't gotten one yet here in Portland.

Thanks.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by il Nemico

What's the debate?..
I only asked for a photo. 🤷*♂️

What am I trying to garner?..
A side by side visual.🤷*♂️

I have no motivations or any intent to stir the pot.. chill.😏

I own an M2 cs and I am genuinely interested in on hand comparison since @silber is an owner of both and my dealer hasn't gotten one yet here in Portland.

Thanks.

One was posted of a white M2 and a G8X. You already know they're not even in the same ball park size wise. I'm assuming you bought an M2 over an F8X because of size?!?! With the G8X being larger than an F8X, what more do you really need to know?!?

[il Nemico]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

One was posted of a white M2 and a G8X. You already know they're not even in the same ball park size wise. I'm assuming you bought an M2 over an F8X because of size?!?! With the G8X being larger than an F8X, what more do you really need to know?!?

Great..
I'll check that post.
Thanks for sharing the link.....

And, no I didn't buy the m2 cs because of size alone..

We're done here.

[Ziosella]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agree with all of the above.

Ya know, when I first came to BMW in 2000-2001 with the E46 330ci, and later a few E46 M3's, etc., I used to take the Porsche comparisons seriously.......

....until I actually priced one out AND talked to owners about the maintenance. Ughhh, it was a reality check. Big time!

I built a G82 a month ago with CF buckets and options similar to my current F82. I also started building a Porsche Carrera S. I hadn't even finished the comparable build and the P car was already $50k more than the G82.

Over $50,000 more and they're all deserved.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ziosella

Over $50,000 more and they're all deserved.

Whether the extra is deserved or not isn't the point.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by il Nemico

What's the debate?..
I only asked for a photo. 🤷*♂️

What am I trying to garner?..
A side by side visual.🤷*♂️

I have no motivations or any intent to stir the pot.. chill.😏

I own an M2 cs and I am genuinely interested in on hand comparison since @silber is an owner of both and my dealer hasn't gotten one yet here in Portland.

Thanks.

+1 Nothing wrong with asking a photo. Forummers shoving their "weight" are unacceptable ... getting butthurt over something innocent. Asking for a photo showing the size difference is not committing a crime. This is a forum.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bm323

+1 Nothing wrong with asking a photo. Forummers shoving their "weight" are unacceptable ... getting butthurt over something innocent. Asking for a photo showing the size difference is not committing a crime. This is a forum.

Most people here get butthurt over minutia. It's the forum way.




The answer to his question was here:

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=27288131

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by Silber

I posted earlier that it was requested I take it down until the embargo was up. A bunch of dealers got slapped by corporate earlier this week for letting people out on drives as soon as the cars arrived. I don't want to cause more trouble for the dealer, so I've locked it down until the embargo is up on the 10th.

I really appreciate your post.

I find this heavy handed corporate stuff to try and control dealers kind of strange. I don't know why March 9th has to be the magic date. They could pull that date back and not force dealers to play this weird game with customers. Or if it just has to be March 9th, hold the cars until the week after.

I wonder who is paying inventory costs for these cars now sitting in dealer lots waiting to be delivered.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by solstice

Very true, the P-car owner experience is vastly different. It’s not comparable and a rude awakening for anyone thinking the pain is over after handing over the first check. It’s the easy part...

What are the additional cost for the Porsche? Are the maintenance cost more expensive? I heard Porsche cars are bulletproof. I don't know if this is true though.

[M3PGH]

dealers now are not allowed to do test drives till after 3/9 .

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by danf72

I really appreciate your post.

I find this heavy handed corporate stuff to try and control dealers kind of strange. I don't know why March 9th has to be the magic date. They could pull that date back and not force dealers to play this weird game with customers. Or if it just has to be March 9th, hold the cars until the week after.

I wonder who is paying inventory costs for these cars now sitting in dealer lots waiting to be delivered.

I actually understand BMW.
They give everyone a launch date, it's their right to put their stuff in the market when they decide.
Of course they deliever a few weeks sooner the cars which are build, there is ton's of things going on in the background.

Then it is just fair that the costumer's who recieved a delievery for the launch date get their car at this date, and not that some Dealers just give the cars earlier and some not.
Imagine a couple of costumer getting the iPhone 2 weeks earlier than it's launch date...or also a video game or whatever. People would go nuts...

So even though i'm very happy for the owner who got the car already I totally do understand BMW going enrage at dealer who already handet out the car.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by AHall

What are the additional cost for the Porsche? Are the maintenance cost more expensive? I heard Porsche cars are bulletproof. I don't know if this is true though.

Recently, Porsche started including the 1st service "free" but when I had my 981 Cayman, the first oil change at the dealer was $440 and the next 20k service was going to be $1200.

The cars are relatively bulletproof but I had my washer hose replaced a few times under warranty (it would crack in half at the hinge of the frunk from what I assume was using the frunk frequently in cold weather) and the upper area of the driver's door panel was beginning to delaminate from the door panel and again was replaced under warranty (somewhat common on 991/981 models).

Overall, the 981 was a blast and if I could afford a new 911, I'd be in one. However, it is more expensive to maintain unless you DIY.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by AHall

What are the additional cost for the Porsche? Are the maintenance cost more expensive? I heard Porsche cars are bulletproof. I don't know if this is true though.

Bullet proof, not true.

Our Cayenne with 65k on odo.
3x AWD transfer case @ $5k each.
1x fuel pump @ $1500
1x valve cover gasket @ $1800
1x central locking actuator @ $1500
2x brake jobs @ $3k each.
1x battery @ $1k if I recall right of the price.
Scheduled maintaince @ average $500 a year.
1x Cardan shaft coming up @ $2700

This is likely more total cost than all my 10+ BMWs combined at similar odo readings. Some of this were warranty repairs but bullet proof she ain’t. Still love the car though. Love hurts.
911 are supposedly more reliable but around 2x the cost for every service and repair that is needed vs. the Cayenne.

[Jcali86]

The Cayenne is an Audi with more expensive clothes on though isn't it? Little different from the 911.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

The Cayenne is an Audi with more expensive clothes on though isn't it? Little different from the 911.

The 958 is based on a VW (Touareg) but most problem parts I experienced are Porsche specific...The 911 is different but it ain’t all good. Open the “hood” on a 911 and you quickly understand why services are so expensive. For example try to change spark plugs on a 911 Turbo vs a Cayenne and tell me how that was

[btkowalk]

I just test drove the first M3 comp standard seats at my local dealership. Coming from 6MT f80 with speed cloth. Enough has been said already but my 2 cents:
-g80 standard seats are very comfortable, much more so than the f80 speed cloth
-g80 did not feel bigger or heavier to me
-g80 puts power to the ground a lot better than f80; felt planted and composed
-g80 definitely has a different sound; deeper grumble and quieter inside the cabin than f80
-g80 suspension was softer in sport than f80 in comfort; handled bumps a lot better

[solstice]

Originally Posted by btkowalk

I just test drove the first M3 comp standard seats at my local dealership. Coming from 6MT f80 with speed cloth. Enough has been said already but my 2 cents:
-g80 standard seats are very comfortable, much more so than the f80 speed cloth
-g80 did not feel bigger or heavier to me
-g80 puts power to the ground a lot better than f80; felt planted and composed
-g80 definitely has a different sound; deeper grumble and quieter inside the cabin than f80
-g80 suspension was softer in sport than f80 in comfort; handled bumps a lot better

Did not feel big and heavy like an M5 then it sounds?
Btw, before you answer I take no responsibility if you endup in a basement with a black bag on year head.

[Silber]

Originally Posted by solstice

Did not feel big and heavy like an M5 then it sounds?
Btw, before you answer I take no responsibility if you endup in a basement with a black bag on year head.

Definitely not like an F10 or F90, but from my experience while not noticeably bigger in a vacuum, 5 inches of extra length will be noticeable especially since only about 2 of that is an extension of the wheelbase. And while the suspension seemed much better tuned in out of the box (as opposed to the F80 where the car was very spiky until the comp pack came out), it's going to be difficult to hide the ~300+ lb difference.

I think what's worth noting is that the F80 was 183 inches long, while the F10 M5 was 193 inches long - so a 10 inch difference. With the G80, being 189 inches long and F90 being 195 inches long, the difference in size between the M3 and M5 has shrunk by almost half this generation.

As another data point, the E60 M5 was 191 inches long - only 2 inches longer than the G80. I just now realized that both the power and the weight of the G80 are very, very similar to the E60 (my math says they should be within 100 lbs on the lighter side of each car).

Just reinforces that the M2 is the best M3, and the M3 and M4 are the best M5 and M6.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Silber

Definitely not like an F10 or F90, but from my while not noticeably bigger in a vacuum, 5 inches of extra length will be noticeable especially since only about 2 of that is an extension of the wheelbase. And while the suspension seemed much better tuned in out of the box (as opposed to the F80 where the car was very spiky until the comp pack came out), it's going to be difficult to hide the ~300+ lb difference.

I think what's worth noting is that the F80 was 183 inches long, while the F10 M5 was 193 inches long - so a 10 inch difference. With the G80, being 189 inches long and F90 being 195 inches long, the difference in size between the M3 and M5 has shrunk by almost half this generation.

As another data point, the E60 M5 was 191 inches long - only 2 inches longer than the G80. I just now realized that both the power and the weight of the G80 are very, very similar to the E60 (my math says they should be within 100 lbs on the lighter side of each car).

Just reinforces that the M2 is the best M3, and the M3 and M4 are the best M5 and M6.

If it’s like the E60 that’s just about perfect for a dual purpose car for driver and family. Absolutely loved how my 535i E60 LCI ZCP handled on the street. Like a more planted E90 with much better components and tuning. Everytime I got an E90 335i as a loaner I just wanted the E60 back ASAP. I preferred it over the E39 as well. When I drove it out of the crummy old euro delivery location I knew after 5min that I loved that car. It’s my wife’s favorite BMW of all we owned.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by Silber

it's going to be difficult to hide the ~300+ lb difference.

G80 with 6mt and RWD is 3,740 pounds. CF Buckets saves an additional 21 pounds, so I'm at 3,721 pounds.

F80 in manual was 3,509 pounds. Weight gain is 212 pounds (6%). Not great but it could be far worse.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

G80 with 6mt and RWD is 3,740 pounds. CF Buckets saves an additional 21 pounds, so I'm at 3,721 pounds.

F80 in manual was 3,509 pounds. Weight gain is 212 pounds (6%). Not great but it could be far worse.

And it’s usually not the weight itself that matters most, it’s how the car carry the weight. Just as with people